Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[synergy]

lol

do you sin? or are you perfect?

Your right, If your saved, you are workers of the law.

that is descriptive, not prescriptive

Paul makes it clear. as did moses. if you want to be saved by the works of the law. You have to be perfect.

Gal 3: 10 ;For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.
Deut 27: 26 ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

lets nor forget james

James 2: 10 - For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

its not even willful sin, it was a sin by accident..

Rom 2:13-15 was directed to the Nations, not to Jews who should have known better.

You may continue to bark against Rom 2:13-15 all you want. I'll stick with Paul, if you don't mind.

 

[GodsGrace]

I just answered the question.

If I CLAIM I HAVE FAITH.. but I do not have works, CAN THAT FAITH SAVE ME

it would be better if it was written, can that CLAIMED FAITH save me



I answered the question iwth a yes or a no. and I explained my answer.

dude, if your going to talk to me, You need to learn to understand what i am saying. I am a little sick of being falsly accused by people who do not know how to read.


Most people would read this, and understand the answer is NO.

LOL

You were very careful to get the word CLAIM in there!

You just can't answer an easy question!

 

[synergy]

HE DID NOT HAVE FAITH

what part of CLAIMED FAITH do youi not understand?

what part of DEAD (NON EXISTENT OR NON LIVING faith,. do you not understand?

do you talk to people this way you meet in person? You must not have many friends if you do.

James is asking "can faith save him?" That's the question to which you said no.

(James 2:14) My brothers, what profit is it if a man says he has faith and does not have works? Can faith save him?

Therefore, faith devoid of good works cannot save. That aligns perfectly with James 2:24 which you avoid like the plague.

 

[Dizerner]

Here is what I do know.

Here's what I do know.

1. Christians are tempted to false doctrines and Scripture says many will succumb to them.
2. Scripture is crystal clear that Christians should be aware they can fall away and do something about it.
3. God is not double-minded, and never intended for his Word to be ambiguous.
4. The doctrine of Eternal Security is actually responsible for many souls' eternal damnation.
5. There will be spiritual blood on the hands of every Christian that preaches this lie.
6. No Christian was recorded believing this doctrine until the time of John Calvin.

When I say to the wicked,`O wicked man, you shall surely die!'
and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way,
that wicked man shall die in his iniquity;
but his blood I will require at your hand. (Ezek. 33:8 NKJ)

 

[GodsGrace]

I have already previously answered your loaded question but since my answer did not align with your belief that good works are required to maintain salvation and that good works are the means of receiving eternal life (which I disagree with) you simply dismissed my answer.

While good works are not required to obtain or maintain salvation, they are considered an important part of the Christian life

A simple YES is just too difficult.

You say that good works are considered an important part of the Christian life?

Dan...Good works ARE the Christian life.

Why do you believe Jesus stated that we are to consider following Him BEFORE our choice to follow?:


Luke 14:27-30
27 "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot * be My disciple.
28 "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
29 "Otherwise *, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30 saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'


1. Jesus says that if we do not carry our cross, we cannot follow Him.

2. Before following Him we are to count the cost...consider what it will cost.

3. If we do not finish what we begin...we will be ridiculed and told WE WERE NOT ABLE TO FINISH.


Just like all the other verses that state that we are to endure to the end.

and a necessary consequence of genuine faith. They are seen as the fruit, by product and demonstrate evidence of genuine faith.

Good works glorify our Father in heaven (Matthew 5:16) and good works are also profitable to men. (Titus 3:8) We are saved FOR good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

So fruit is a by product.
Does this mean we don't have to bear fruit unless we want to?
Or does it mean we do?

So could you answer this question now?

AFTER SALVATION...ARE WE REQUIRED TO DO GOOD WORKS?

 

[GodsGrace]

HE DID NOT HAVE FAITH

what part of CLAIMED FAITH do youi not understand?

what part of DEAD (NON EXISTENT OR NON LIVING faith,. do you not understand?

do you talk to people this way you meet in person? You must not have many friends if you do.

EG,,,,
James is not speaking about a claimed faith...

James said FAITH without works is DEAD.

FAITH....not a claimed faith.

The word CLAIMED is nowhere to be found.

God expects NOTHING from those that CLAIM faith.

God expects from those that HAVE FAITH.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have already previously answered your loaded question but since my answer did not align with your belief that good works are required to maintain salvation and that good works are the means of receiving eternal life (which I disagree with) you simply dismissed my answer.

While good works are not required to obtain or maintain salvation, they are considered an important part of the Christian life and a necessary consequence of genuine faith. They are seen as the fruit, by product and demonstrate evidence of genuine faith.

Good works glorify our Father in heaven (Matthew 5:16) and good works are also profitable to men. (Titus 3:8) We are saved FOR good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

PS
Why is my question loaded?

Why? Please explain.

Here it is again:

AFTER SALVATION....ARE WE REQUIRED TO DO GOOD WORKS?

 

[synergy]

Here's what I do know.

1. Christians are tempted to false doctrines and Scripture says many will succumb to them.
2. Scripture is crystal clear that Christians should be aware they can fall away and do something about it.
3. God is not double-minded, and never intended for his Word to be ambiguous.
4. The doctrine of Eternal Security is actually responsible for many souls' eternal damnation.
5. There will be spiritual blood on the hands of every Christian that preaches this lie.
6. No Christian was recorded believing this doctrine until the time of John Calvin.

When I say to the wicked,`O wicked man, you shall surely die!'
and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way,
that wicked man shall die in his iniquity;
but his blood I will require at your hand. (Ezek. 33:8 NKJ)

Exactly, my friend!

Wounds from a sincere friend are better than many kisses from an enemy. (Proverbs)

 

[Dizerner]

Dan...Good works ARE the Christian life.

It is important to also point out that good works can be done for the wrong reasons, it is not good works in and of themselves that are righteous. They must be done in a spirit of grace and submission that all righteousness only comes through Christ's suffering on the Cross for our sins, and not be done self-righteously.

 

[civic]

Here's what I do know.

1. Christians are tempted to false doctrines and Scripture says many will succumb to them.
2. Scripture is crystal clear that Christians should be aware they can fall away and do something about it.
3. God is not double-minded, and never intended for his Word to be ambiguous.
4. The doctrine of Eternal Security is actually responsible for many souls' eternal damnation.
5. There will be spiritual blood on the hands of every Christian that preaches this lie.
6. No Christian was recorded believing this doctrine until the time of John Calvin.

When I say to the wicked,`O wicked man, you shall surely die!'
and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way,
that wicked man shall die in his iniquity;
but his blood I will require at your hand. (Ezek. 33:8 NKJ)

Believers are not wicked , they are holy, righteous .

Next fallacy

 

[civic]

It is important to also point out that good works can be done for the wrong reasons, it is not good works in and of themselves that are righteous. They must be done in a spirit of grace and submission that all righteousness only comes through Christ's suffering on the Cross for our sins, and not be done self-righteously.

Obedience is not optional it’s mandatory. Deny yourself daily , take up your cross daily and follow Jesus. As Jesus said His friends are those who obey Him.

Are you a friend of Jesus ?

Next fallacy

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

IF obeying Jesus is a misnomer...so be it.

Thats not even the context.

it is the reason we behave that is the context. Your trying to twist the conversation.. I suggest you stop.

I don't believe it is.
I believe Jesus gave us commands so we could obey them.

If we could obey them, then we could save ourselves. I think paul made this clear in gal 3

Gal 3: 21 s the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law

Like I told your brother. Gods requirment was and is perfection.

If you kept the law perfectly. Your good. ifg as James said you stumble in just one point. Your cursed (cursed is the one)

Jesus removed the curse for us, thats the cross.. Apart from the cross. you and I are both doomed. because we failed to keep Gods standard. we sinned and fell short.

No one is sayign a word about not obeying commands, We strive to do this, By looking to the law of love, and seeking after things of the spirit.

but we confess. We have sinned and fall short. We are not perfect. so we still require grace

John 14:15
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
Which commands do YOU believe Jesus is speaking of?

Not sure you point here. I agree with this verse. here once again you are bearing a false tesimony of what I am saying. because you refuse to listen to what I am saying

Well, unfortunately EG....God gives us the million dollars but expects something in return.

Probloem is. neither you or I could pay the million dollars. and if we do nto pay.l it will be removed from us

You can not pay your sin debt. Not only the debt you own god for past sins, but the ones you will commit. So if the gift is only assured if you pay it off. Neither you or I will end up in heaven,

He expects us to obey Him.

Yes.

But he knows we can not pay the debt we owe him, thats why he came to become the curse for us

Jesus said:

Luke 11:28
28But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

If obeying Jesus is a works based gospel...then that's what we'll have to call it.

Unless it's You that doesn't seem to want to accept all of scripture but just pick out the verses you like.

Here's more:

Matthew 5:13
13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how * can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
1. We are the salt of the earth.
2. But it can become tasteless.
3. It is no longer good for anything.
Like John 15:1-2 the branches that do not bear fruit are severed.

Yawn. again, bearing false witness..

The Jews practiced THE LAW.

yet they failed to keep the law

The law required perfection..

break one, your cursed.

We don't practice the Law.
We obey Jesus and it's not that difficult...

You don;t? I do.. By serving the law of love, I by practice keep the law.

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Actually, Jesus DID teach that we are to MERIT our salvation....

lol. Then jesus put us back under law.

IF we obey Jesus....we will be saved.

IF we do NOT obey Jesus....??

What does sanctification consist of EG?

Not justification.

it consists of God growig us, by growing our faith and chastening us when we step out of line

But what if you DO NOT do good works?
You are disobeying Jesus.
Are you still saved no matter what?

I do good works. I do not know of any believer who does not do good works..

James would say their faith was dead. are they saved? certainly not.. They have no faith

Are you still becoming like Jesus?

Yes

Are you still saved?

I have been saved since I came to him

I will never be completely like jesus in this lifetime, if that's required. I might as well give up..

But I continue to run the race. Because I know it is not required. and out of gratitude. I desire to be like him

Paul is right of course...we cannot be saved by works.
However, Romans 11:6 is addressing a remnant that had remained from those of Israel that did not obey God.
The remnant had not bowed to Baal and God.
So God had kept a remnant, whom He chose by His Grace and not by their works.....

yawn.

these people were not perfect. yet God kept them

Just like he keeps me//

don;t you trust he will keep you?

God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy.
Romans 9:15

ah the calvinistic view of romans 9. way to go

This has nothing to do with the commandments of Jesus and our obedience to those commandments.

yes it does.

if it is by works, grace is no longer grace.

Grace is freely given, not merited or earned.

How is it a completed act if I keep posting scripture that denies this?

But you do not

And it is a completed act because Paul said so.

I have been saved. period.. Not by works. but by his mercy.

If I am still at risk of not getting to heaven, I am not saved, period..

You continue to post scripture that states we are not saved by works.
I AGREE.

No you don't. your whole basis of salvation is by merit of works..

What do you make of the verses that state that we are to do good works AND that state that salvation can be lost?

2 Peter 2:20-22 THIS happened to some that had been saved and went back into the world and became false teachers:
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.

22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

Having knowledge of the word. and acting on that knowledge does not mean they were saved.

You missed the context of who these people were. your pulling a few verses out of context and refusing to see who these people are

2 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 ;and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Deceptions of False Teachers​

18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

are you telling me these people who had knowledge of the truth (hence they have no excuse for being this wak, they knew what they were doing.. they were not decieved) were saved at one time and lost salvation?

youi worry me

I do believe I've posted this many times.
Has nothing to do with what we're discussing.

Has everything to do with what we are discussing

We're discussing AFTER salvation.

I am discussing after salvation

You are discussing how one is saved..

Again....we all agree that we are saved by faith and not by works.

You do not..

Nothin you habe said in this post shows you think we are saved apart from the works of obedience to God

This thread is about OSAS.

And?

its about eternal security. Does God fail. Does God not keep his promise

is salvation earned, or is it a grace gift?

I believe your arguments are against OSAS.. You believe OSAS is Calvinist. so you can not give any Creedence any of it however slight may be true

It's about obeying Jesus and what happens if we do NOT.

We will not lose eternal life.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

A child of God WILL take heed to such scriptures, when overall considered ~ meaning at times they do fall into sin, yet conviction and the power of the new nature causes them to repent and do their first works. Read the rest of this charter for a biblical conformation of what I'm saying.

Hebrews 10:38​

“Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition;

I suggest that you go back and read Hebrews again:

Here Paul is speaking to the SAME PERSONS as in Verse 38...

Hebrews 10:35-36
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.


Paul warns not to throw away their confidence.
He warns that those that shrink back, will shrink back to destruction.
He states from the OT that God has no pleasure in those that shrink back.
He tell them that they are not of those that shrink back,,,,this is encouragement...
Why?
Because Paul clearly believes that man CAN shrink back:


Colossians 1:21-23
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach -
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast,



1 Timothy 4:1
1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,


Scripture must agree with itself.
You're going to have to do some reconciling.

If Paul meant Hebrews 10:38 the way you understand it....
then he did not mean Colossians 1 and 1 Timothy, and a mriad of other verses.

but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

All of God's children say, AMEN and AMEN! You and your friends love to cherry pick scriptures and isolate them from the scriptures overall teachings, shame on you.

Do you believe in Hebrews 10:38? I certainly do, and so should you....it is God's testimony of the truth, when the scriptures are taken as a cohesive whole.

I believe in ALL of scripture.

 

[Johann]

Here's what I do know.

1. Christians are tempted to false doctrines and Scripture says many will succumb to them.
2. Scripture is crystal clear that Christians should be aware they can fall away and do something about it.
3. God is not double-minded, and never intended for his Word to be ambiguous.
4. The doctrine of Eternal Security is actually responsible for many souls' eternal damnation.
5. There will be spiritual blood on the hands of every Christian that preaches this lie.
6. No Christian was recorded believing this doctrine until the time of John Calvin.

---and this is what I know, since there are some errors here--


"Christians are tempted to false doctrines and Scripture says many will succumb to them."
True in principle, but misleading in application.

Indeed, Paul warns of apostasies (1 Timothy 4:1; Acts 20:29–30), and believers are exhorted to remain vigilant (2 Peter 2:1). But the presence of deception does not logically disprove the doctrine of perseverance, which is also grounded in Scripture. For example, Jesus says in John 10:27–29 (NASB),

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

The verb ἀπόλωνται (perish) is aorist subjunctive active--indicating Jesus is ruling out even the possibility of perishing for His sheep.

2. "Scripture is crystal clear that Christians should be aware they can fall away and do something about it."
Partly accurate in terms of warnings, but contextually nuanced.

Yes, Hebrews 3:12 and 6:4–6 are serious warnings—but they do not contradict the promise of God’s preserving grace. They function as means through which the elect are kept persevering. The verb παρακαλεῖτε in Hebrews 3:13 ("encourage one another") is present active imperative, implying continuous exhortation as God's ordained means for spiritual endurance--not evidence of a doctrine that salvation is lost and regained.

3. "God is not double-minded, and never intended for his Word to be ambiguous." Correct in principle, but misused.

This is a theological truism--James 1:17 declares there is no shadow of turning with God. But the implication that a clear reading automatically rules out Eternal Security is false. In fact, many Scriptures teach eternal preservation, such as:

Romans 8:30 – “those He justified, He also glorified” (no dropout implied).

Philippians 1:6 – “He who began a good work in you will perfect it”.

Ephesians 1:13–14 – believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit... until the redemption.

In Greek, ἐσφραγίσθητε (you were sealed) is aorist passive indicative, showing a completed, divine action with enduring results.

4. "The doctrine of Eternal Security is actually responsible for many souls' eternal damnation."
Theological speculation, not scriptural demonstration.

Your claim assumes a false dichotomy--that confidence in Christ’s preserving power leads to licentiousness. Paul explicitly refutes this slanderous charge in Romans 6:1–2:

“Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.”

True eternal security is not license but liberty to walk in holiness through union with Christ. The indicative precedes the imperative: one is first declared righteous (justification), then called to live righteously (sanctification).

5. "There will be spiritual blood on the hands of every Christian that preaches this lie."
Subjective condemnation without biblical warrant.

Paul preached eternal assurance (cf. 2 Timothy 1:12 – “I know whom I have believed...”), and never warned of spiritual blood on his hands for doing so. On the contrary, he says in Acts 20:26–27:

“I am innocent of the blood of all men, for I did not shrink from declaring the whole counsel of God.”

Preaching assurance of salvation based on God's promises is part of that counsel--not a betrayal of it.

6. "No Christian was recorded believing this doctrine until the time of John Calvin."
Historically inaccurate.

While Calvin systematized aspects of perseverance, the doctrine predates him.

Augustine (early 5th century) taught that God grants perseverance to the elect: “The gift of perseverance, without which no one can continue in faith...” (cf. De Correptione et Gratia, ch. 12).

Fulgentius of Ruspe (AD 462–527): “All those whom God wills to be saved through Jesus Christ... will unfailingly attain to eternal salvation.”

Even Irenaeus (2nd century), while not using modern terms, emphasized that those united to Christ will ultimately be glorified (cf. Against Heresies 5.11.1).


The doctrine of perseverance, or eternal security, is not a "license to sin" nor a Calvinist invention, but a Scriptural promise rooted in the faithfulness of God, not in the fluctuating performance of man.

Jesus: "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I lose nothing..." (John 6:39, ἀπολέσω - aorist subjunctive: He guarantees He will not lose them).

Paul: "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?" (Romans 8:35)--the implied answer is emphatic: no one, and nothing.

So in summary, you've made several assertions, but they are not supported by Scripture--so I must respectfully continue to disagree with you, @Dizerner, until your position aligns with the biblical witness.

J.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here's what I do know.

1. Christians are tempted to false doctrines and Scripture says many will succumb to them.
2. Scripture is crystal clear that Christians should be aware they can fall away and do something about it.
3. God is not double-minded, and never intended for his Word to be ambiguous.
4. The doctrine of Eternal Security is actually responsible for many souls' eternal damnation.
5. There will be spiritual blood on the hands of every Christian that preaches this lie.
6. No Christian was recorded believing this doctrine until the time of John Calvin.

When I say to the wicked,`O wicked man, you shall surely die!'
and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way,
that wicked man shall die in his iniquity;
but his blood I will require at your hand. (Ezek. 33:8 NKJ)

Perfect !

 

[GodsGrace]

It is important to also point out that good works can be done for the wrong reasons, it is not good works in and of themselves that are righteous. They must be done in a spirit of grace and submission that all righteousness only comes through Christ's suffering on the Cross for our sins, and not be done self-righteously.

Absolutely.

If I do a good work for my church only to get an award...that is a righteous work.
This is why it's important to be clear that we obey by faith...


Paul calls this obedience of faith in Romans 1:5.

I must say, however, that this would be a sin of pride, and God will surely forgive us of this.

But yes,,,totally agreed.

 

[Dizerner]

Obedience is not optional it’s mandatory. Deny yourself daily , take up your cross daily and follow Jesus. As Jesus said His friends are those who obey Him. Are you a friend of Jesus ?

Most Christians do not deny themselves as much as they should.

I'm suspecting you don't think only perfect Christians are saved...

Many, many deeply sinful Christians will be in heaven, and regret falling short in their life...

 

[civic]

The greater question for any professing Christian is do you really love God?

How does your love life look ?

Loving God is always connected to loving others. If you cannot or do not love others then you do not love God and are deceived. The greatest commandment Jesus answered was to love God with all you mind, heart, soul and strength and your neighbor. Jesus connected the love of God with loving others. He said the whole world will know you are My disciples by how you love one another. John takes it a step further and says if you don't love others then you don't love God either.

1 John 2:3-6
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

1 John 3:9-12
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; 12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.

1 John 3:14-19
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.

1 John 3:23-24
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 John 4:7-14
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

1 John 4:16-21
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Continued :

James 2:8
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal lawaccording to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

John 13:34-35
34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

John 15:13
13 "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

John 15:17
17 "This I command you, that you love one another

Matt 22:37-40
And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

What biblical love looks like in the mirror. Paul defines love below and what it should look like in the Christians life

1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

hope this helps !!!

 

[GodsGrace]

Thats not even the context.

it is the reason we behave that is the context. Your trying to twist the conversation.. I suggest you stop.

If we could obey them, then we could save ourselves. I think paul made this clear in gal 3

Gal 3: 21 s the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law

Like I told your brother. Gods requirment was and is perfection.

If you kept the law perfectly. Your good. ifg as James said you stumble in just one point. Your cursed (cursed is the one)

Jesus removed the curse for us, thats the cross.. Apart from the cross. you and I are both doomed. because we failed to keep Gods standard. we sinned and fell short.

No one is sayign a word about not obeying commands, We strive to do this, By looking to the law of love, and seeking after things of the spirit.

but we confess. We have sinned and fall short. We are not perfect. so we still require grace

Not sure you point here. I agree with this verse. here once again you are bearing a false tesimony of what I am saying. because you refuse to listen to what I am saying

Probloem is. neither you or I could pay the million dollars. and if we do nto pay.l it will be removed from us

You can not pay your sin debt. Not only the debt you own god for past sins, but the ones you will commit. So if the gift is only assured if you pay it off. Neither you or I will end up in heaven,

Yes.

But he knows we can not pay the debt we owe him, thats why he came to become the curse for us

Yawn. again, bearing false witness..



yet they failed to keep the law

The law required perfection..

break one, your cursed.

You don;t? I do.. By serving the law of love, I by practice keep the law.

lol. Then jesus put us back under law.

Not justification.

it consists of God growig us, by growing our faith and chastening us when we step out of line


I do good works. I do not know of any believer who does not do good works..

James would say their faith was dead. are they saved? certainly not.. They have no faith

Yes

I have been saved since I came to him

I will never be completely like jesus in this lifetime, if that's required. I might as well give up..

But I continue to run the race. Because I know it is not required. and out of gratitude. I desire to be like him

yawn.

these people were not perfect. yet God kept them

Just like he keeps me//

don;t you trust he will keep you?

ah the calvinistic view of romans 9. way to go

yes it does.

if it is by works, grace is no longer grace.

Grace is freely given, not merited or earned.

But you do not

And it is a completed act because Paul said so.

I have been saved. period.. Not by works. but by his mercy.

If I am still at risk of not getting to heaven, I am not saved, period..

No you don't. your whole basis of salvation is by merit of works..

Having knowledge of the word. and acting on that knowledge does not mean they were saved.

You missed the context of who these people were. your pulling a few verses out of context and refusing to see who these people are

2 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 ;and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Deceptions of False Teachers​

18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

are you telling me these people who had knowledge of the truth (hence they have no excuse for being this wak, they knew what they were doing.. they were not decieved) were saved at one time and lost salvation?

youi worry me

Has everything to do with what we are discussing

I am discussing after salvation

You are discussing how one is saved..

You do not..

Nothin you habe said in this post shows you think we are saved apart from the works of obedience to God

And?

its about eternal security. Does God fail. Does God not keep his promise

is salvation earned, or is it a grace gift?

I believe your arguments are against OSAS.. You believe OSAS is Calvinist. so you can not give any Creedence any of it however slight may be true

We will not lose eternal life.

I actually stated they were false teachers...but they were once saved.
They had ESCAPED THE DEFILEMENT OF THE WORLD...but went back to it...like a dog to its vomit.

2 Peter 2:15
FORSAKING THE RIGHT WAY....they WENT ASTRAY.....

Paul warns about going astray also.

Too long of a post for this time of evening....
Tomorrow....