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Duane
Active Member
True Believers can not Fall Away. The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], and this life is in his Son.” 1 John 5:11
So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in it right now.
Here is another crucial word: “Those whom he predestined.” This is from Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” Now, glorification is the final state of permanent salvation. This verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified, and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.
Paul’s warning makes it sound like believers can fall away from God but that is not the case.
All those who are faithful to the end prove that they have been in Christ and only they can be in Christ.
You can say the same thing the opposite way: All those who are not faithful to the end prove that they have not come to share in Christ.
Therefore, true believers cannot fall away, so Paul calls them, “brothers,” because he’s giving them the benefit of the doubt and speaking to a crowd, not because he believes they are all true believers.
If anyone falls away from the living God, they are not falling away from Christ, because they have proven that they were never truly in him. No, they are falling away from some other experience.
Therefore, brothers who are genuinely in Christ cannot be lost. If we hold fast to Christ to the end, we prove we have been in Christ. And if we don’t, we prove that we have not (ever) come to share in Christ.
So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in it right now.
Here is another crucial word: “Those whom he predestined.” This is from Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” Now, glorification is the final state of permanent salvation. This verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified, and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.
Paul’s warning makes it sound like believers can fall away from God but that is not the case.
All those who are faithful to the end prove that they have been in Christ and only they can be in Christ.
You can say the same thing the opposite way: All those who are not faithful to the end prove that they have not come to share in Christ.
Therefore, true believers cannot fall away, so Paul calls them, “brothers,” because he’s giving them the benefit of the doubt and speaking to a crowd, not because he believes they are all true believers.
If anyone falls away from the living God, they are not falling away from Christ, because they have proven that they were never truly in him. No, they are falling away from some other experience.
Therefore, brothers who are genuinely in Christ cannot be lost. If we hold fast to Christ to the end, we prove we have been in Christ. And if we don’t, we prove that we have not (ever) come to share in Christ.
Johann
Active Member
2 Timothy 2:15 (NASB)
"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth."
Key Verb and Parsing
Be diligent (σπούδασον, spoudason) - Aorist Active Imperative, 2nd Person Singular.
This verb conveys the sense of making every effort, striving, or being zealous in one’s study and presentation before God.
Accurately handling (ὀρθοτομοῦντα, orthotomounta) - Present Active Participle, Accusative Singular.
This verb means "to cut straight" or "to rightly divide," implying careful and correct interpretation of Scripture.
Short enough for you?
J.
Johann
Active Member
Selah
Active Member
In my opinion, a grammar lesson is not always needed.
Duane
Active Member
I'm behind a gaming keyboard with flashing lights. And some serious AutoHotkeys and Macros.
Johann
Active Member
It comes natural, second nature to me--and hopefully edify others, for their benefit, all praise and glory to Abba and Christ Jesus.
I speak several languages, no boasting.
J.
Johann
Active Member
Johann
Active Member
Selah
Active Member
I never do…no worries.
TibiasDad
Active Member
The use of the Genitive infuses the idea of possession of or belonging to, there is a union of dynamic connectiveness between two parties. This is not a casual or flirtatious interaction with, or a testing of the waters.
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
Careful, my brother. Truth is truth regardless of the source, and what we hear from God will always be identical to what we see in scripture.
Doug
Dizerner
Active Member
I would give some push back in this, and urge even more caution against it.
Although I do appreciate the spirit in which this is given, once we think that the words of the Bible all have one "plain" and "self-evident" meaning, we have already entered a realm of deception on multiple fronts. Before words can even convey meaning there are presuppositions and preconditions that must already be in place, that cannot be derived from the words themselves. Thus the idea that there is, if we just apply our syntax, just "one self-evident" meaning we will arrive at presupposes that all presuppositions actually come after the words convey their meaning instead of before.
That is, what we have done, is laden our worldview in a way that will always confirm our own bias, and we always "see" the plain meaning as what we have already presupposed. To rely only on the intellect presupposes the worldview that one does not hear directly from God. To rely only on grammar and lexicon presupposes that logic and metaphysics come after the words do instead of before. We all come with presuppositions to Scripture—every last one of us—and we all interpret the words in the light of those presuppositions that logically and necessarily cannot come from the words alone.
This is all just a very sophisticated and roundabout way of saying that a person necessarily must hear from God to properly understand Scripture, and anyone that thinks they can just do it all on their own is already under a form of deception.
Excellent! Then I’ll take my leave--I come here for edification, not sarcasm, Bobby Dylan.
Not edification only, also your habit throwing snide remarks at me.
Look, your are totally free to make your posts as long as you want, the same counts for me, just leave out the personal remarks.
Do we understand each other ?
Not edification only, also your habit throwing snide remarks at me.
Look, your are totally free to make your posts as long as you want, the same counts for me, just leave out the personal remarks.
Do we understand each other ?
Ah, an opportunity for you
Scripture tells us several mighty things, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, we are bought with a price, meaning we are His.
It does not mean if a person gets seconds thoughts the Lord will keep the person sealed against his free will.
Ex 32:33 - But the LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.
Rev 3:5 - The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.
Dizerner
Active Member
Ah, an opportunity for you
I'll give you this one thing.
Scripture does say that if we prepare seriously in our life, if we build on the rock, if we buy the oil, if we set our will, there is a place we have come where we have sufficiently guarded ourselves from future apostasy, and in that case, there is no chance to fall. In fact, I soberly believe I have reached this place, although I would never be presumptuous about is, as there is literally no reason to even take the smallest chance.
However, that is not by any definition any version of Eternal Security, because it involves setting our future free will, and not an automatic pass by God to never fall.
@JLB
I have more than once done an exposition verses by verse on John 3:1-8, maybe someone who knows how to navigate this forum better than me can find it. But, will briefly do so again with you so as to cover this point as good as I can without spending much time.
I consider this discourse between our Lord and Nicodemus to be one of the most important discourses Jesus had one on one with any one in the scriptures, and without question it is. We both know that God is all wise, and would never waste space in his word given to us for our exhortations, and learning, concerning certain vital truths, that are so essential to our overall understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Our Lord in this discourse with Nicodemus was not warning, nor condemning him for not being born again, nor exhorting him to be born again, (as so many believe and teach) but was revealing to him that what he professes to believe in was a proof/sign of one born again! Consider carefully to the words of the context, which will drive the interpretation for us.
1.) First consider Nicodemus' child like confession, which is as scriptural as anyone on this forum, or in any churches throughout this world.
"Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.” Nicodemus' testimony concerning Jesus was so much different than other Pharisees, who said that Jesus did miracles by the power of the prince of the devils ~ Beelzebub.
Nicodemus humbly confessed that Jesus could not do his miracles except God be with him. Based upon Nicodemus' confession concerning Jesus we read these words in John 3:3:
Here we see a double verily, which our Lord used when we was about to make a statement, that few would believe when hearing what he was about to say. Again, CONTEXT is King, and we must pay careful attention to what is being said back and forth in order to receive the truth being set forth for us to see and understand. Those to whom it is given to see, will see, and others will just harden their hearts to the truth, and refuse to see, regardless how much time is spent trying to help others to understand.
Our Lord said explicitly ~ Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God! But, Nicodemus did SEE and confessed that except God be with him, he could have done the miracles that HE DID, thereby, he saw, which means he was born again, because EXCEPT a person is born again, he would never be able to see, but would remain like the other wicked Pharisees who attributed Jesus' miracles to the devil!
Though this regenerated child of God saw, his knowledge was much to be desired, by the next words that came form his mouth.
We know that Jesus used the words: born again, by what Nicodemus said back to him ~ the second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Even if this was possible, and we know that it is not, STILL one would be born of flesh, which is sinful, and still would need to be born again. If Nicodemus had not asked that child like question, then Jesus would have never used water in the next verse.
The flow of the context is so important. Again, Jesus would have never mention water, if Nicodemus had not asked what he asked: "can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?” Our first natural birth takes place when the water breaks and the child is born. The New birth is a birth of the Spirit of God, more on this later. Water is never mentioned again when our Lord explains the new birth and how it takes place. Seeing the things within the kingdom of God comes after one enters the kingdom of God through being born of the Spirit.
That which is born of the flesh, IS FLESH and must be born again by the Spirit of God, and once that takes place that person is spiritual can from that point forward see, hear, and believe, yet it comes slowly over time, some quicker than others, there're many factors that determines just how fast one begins to see, hears and believes ~ all are not the same, even Nicodemus was slow coming around, if we follow his life what little we have recorded of it. John 7:50; 19:39.
“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."~ "BEFORE" one an see, hear, and understand! Which proves beyond a shallow of doubt, that the new birth MUST proceed faith, works acceptable by God. Question: who made the different between Nicodemus and the rest of the rulers of the Jews? Certainly not Nicodemus ability, for his spiritual light was at this moment very dim, yet it was there, only by the grace of God and the birth of the Spirit of God.
"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”
The new birth is much like the wind so said our Savior. The wind is sovereign and blows where it pleases. The wind is invisible, you can only see the effect of it, yet not the wind itself.
JLB, that's one reason I asked you did you consider the thief on the cross ~ at one moment he just like the other railed on Christ, and out of nowhere, he said what he did that's recorded for us in Luke 23:39-43! The thief was born by the Spirit of God even while Christ was on the cross dying for his sins! Selah! That's the only reason we have that recorded for us to consider. If you have a better reason, then share it with me.
The new birth is a birth where God is the ONLY active person working ~ it takes place in our subconsciousness, we are totally unware of it happening. We could sleeping, working, even dying like the thief, and many other things one could be doing, you name it. The new birth can take place even in our mother's womb, like John the Baptist. Man is dead spiritually speaking until the new birth. The new birth, allows us to NOW see, hear, and believe, but not until then. The preacher is only needed for the born again person to be able to hear, and believe the testimony of God concerning. Faith is the evidence of one born of God, not the means thereof!
Brother, it may be simple, but not always simple to answer in a few words.
I have more than once done an exposition verses by verse on John 3:1-8, maybe someone who knows how to navigate this forum better than me can find it. But, will briefly do so again with you so as to cover this point as good as I can without spending much time.
John 3:1,2
“There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.”I consider this discourse between our Lord and Nicodemus to be one of the most important discourses Jesus had one on one with any one in the scriptures, and without question it is. We both know that God is all wise, and would never waste space in his word given to us for our exhortations, and learning, concerning certain vital truths, that are so essential to our overall understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Our Lord in this discourse with Nicodemus was not warning, nor condemning him for not being born again, nor exhorting him to be born again, (as so many believe and teach) but was revealing to him that what he professes to believe in was a proof/sign of one born again! Consider carefully to the words of the context, which will drive the interpretation for us.
1.) First consider Nicodemus' child like confession, which is as scriptural as anyone on this forum, or in any churches throughout this world.
"Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.” Nicodemus' testimony concerning Jesus was so much different than other Pharisees, who said that Jesus did miracles by the power of the prince of the devils ~ Beelzebub.
Matthew 12:24
“But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.”Nicodemus humbly confessed that Jesus could not do his miracles except God be with him. Based upon Nicodemus' confession concerning Jesus we read these words in John 3:3:
John 3:3
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”Here we see a double verily, which our Lord used when we was about to make a statement, that few would believe when hearing what he was about to say. Again, CONTEXT is King, and we must pay careful attention to what is being said back and forth in order to receive the truth being set forth for us to see and understand. Those to whom it is given to see, will see, and others will just harden their hearts to the truth, and refuse to see, regardless how much time is spent trying to help others to understand.
Our Lord said explicitly ~ Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God! But, Nicodemus did SEE and confessed that except God be with him, he could have done the miracles that HE DID, thereby, he saw, which means he was born again, because EXCEPT a person is born again, he would never be able to see, but would remain like the other wicked Pharisees who attributed Jesus' miracles to the devil!
Though this regenerated child of God saw, his knowledge was much to be desired, by the next words that came form his mouth.
John 3:4
“Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?”We know that Jesus used the words: born again, by what Nicodemus said back to him ~ the second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Even if this was possible, and we know that it is not, STILL one would be born of flesh, which is sinful, and still would need to be born again. If Nicodemus had not asked that child like question, then Jesus would have never used water in the next verse.
John 3:5
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”The flow of the context is so important. Again, Jesus would have never mention water, if Nicodemus had not asked what he asked: "can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?” Our first natural birth takes place when the water breaks and the child is born. The New birth is a birth of the Spirit of God, more on this later. Water is never mentioned again when our Lord explains the new birth and how it takes place. Seeing the things within the kingdom of God comes after one enters the kingdom of God through being born of the Spirit.
John 3:6
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”That which is born of the flesh, IS FLESH and must be born again by the Spirit of God, and once that takes place that person is spiritual can from that point forward see, hear, and believe, yet it comes slowly over time, some quicker than others, there're many factors that determines just how fast one begins to see, hears and believes ~ all are not the same, even Nicodemus was slow coming around, if we follow his life what little we have recorded of it. John 7:50; 19:39.
John 3:7,8
“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."~ "BEFORE" one an see, hear, and understand! Which proves beyond a shallow of doubt, that the new birth MUST proceed faith, works acceptable by God. Question: who made the different between Nicodemus and the rest of the rulers of the Jews? Certainly not Nicodemus ability, for his spiritual light was at this moment very dim, yet it was there, only by the grace of God and the birth of the Spirit of God.
"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”
The new birth is much like the wind so said our Savior. The wind is sovereign and blows where it pleases. The wind is invisible, you can only see the effect of it, yet not the wind itself.
JLB, that's one reason I asked you did you consider the thief on the cross ~ at one moment he just like the other railed on Christ, and out of nowhere, he said what he did that's recorded for us in Luke 23:39-43! The thief was born by the Spirit of God even while Christ was on the cross dying for his sins! Selah! That's the only reason we have that recorded for us to consider. If you have a better reason, then share it with me.
The new birth is a birth where God is the ONLY active person working ~ it takes place in our subconsciousness, we are totally unware of it happening. We could sleeping, working, even dying like the thief, and many other things one could be doing, you name it. The new birth can take place even in our mother's womb, like John the Baptist. Man is dead spiritually speaking until the new birth. The new birth, allows us to NOW see, hear, and believe, but not until then. The preacher is only needed for the born again person to be able to hear, and believe the testimony of God concerning. Faith is the evidence of one born of God, not the means thereof!
1st John 5:1
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
Selah
Active Member
Affinity
Active Member
Is "Scams" an obscure grammar reference? One could also introduce Satan into the conversation for a little factor.
Not buying it, not this kid. I want to be in the Light as He is in the light. I was to shine like the stars in the havens.
Let’s be honest. Sometimes it’s a difficult concept to buy, isn’t it? But Jesus strait up tells us as “He Himself has said, ‘I will never leave you nor forsake you’” Hebrews 13:5
What part of never don't you understand?
Jesus is described as the author and perfecter, or finisher, of our faith.
Finisher... It means literally “completer” and speaks of bringing something to its conclusion. It's a done deal.
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