Refuting Losing Salvation!
- Thread starter NetChaplain
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NetChaplain
Active Member
Hi and thanks for the reply; like what you said, and I'm sure you agree that God holds on to us (1Th 5:23, 24). God bless!
Believe
Active Member
I like got?
First, the term Christian must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer or walked down an aisle or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what makes a Christian. A Christian is a person who has fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior and therefore possesses the Holy Spirit (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8–9).
So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? It’s a crucially important question. Perhaps the best way to answer it is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation and to study what losing salvation would entail:
A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!” (2 Corinthians 5:17). A Christian is not simply an “improved” version of a person; a Christian is an entirely new creature. He is “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be destroyed.
A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18–19). The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. We were purchased at the cost of Christ’s death. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase of the individual for whom He paid with the precious blood of Christ.
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To justify is to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared. Those absolved of guilt would have to be tried again and found guilty. God would have to reverse the sentence handed down from the divine bench.
A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is the promise of spending forever in heaven with God. God promises that if you believe, you will have eternal life. For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be redefined. The Christian is promised to live forever. Does eternal not mean “eternal”?
A Christian is marked by God and sealed by the Spirit. “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13–14). At the moment of faith, the new Christian is marked and sealed with the Spirit, who was promised to act as a deposit to guarantee the heavenly inheritance. The end result is that God’s glory is praised. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to erase the mark, withdraw the Spirit, cancel the deposit, break His promise, revoke the guarantee, keep the inheritance, forego the praise, and lessen His glory.
A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). According to Romans 5:1, justification is ours at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification comes with justification. All those whom God justifies are promised to be glorified. This promise will be fulfilled when Christians receive their perfect resurrection bodies in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.
A Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Christ would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation is the gift of God, and God’s gifts are “irrevocable” (Romans 11:29). A Christian cannot be un-newly created. The redeemed cannot be unpurchased. Eternal life cannot be temporary. God cannot renege on His Word. Scripture says that God does not lie (Titus 1:2).
Two common objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation concern these experiential issues: 1) What about Christians who live in a sinful, unrepentant lifestyle? 2) What about Christians who reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these objections is the assumption that everyone who calls himself a “Christian” has actually been born again. The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a state of continual, unrepentant sin (1 John 3:6). The Bible also says that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he was never truly a Christian (1 John 2:19). He may have been religious, he may have put on a good show, but he was never born again by the power of God. “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:16). The redeemed of God belong “to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God” (Romans 7:4).
Nothing can separate a child of God from the Father’s love (Romans 8:38–39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28–29). God guarantees eternal life and maintains the salvation He has given us. The Good Shepherd searches for the lost sheep, and, “when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home” (Luke 15:5–6). The lamb is found, and the Shepherd gladly bears the burden; our Lord takes full responsibility for bringing the lost one safely home.
Jude 1:24–25 further emphasizes the goodness and faithfulness of our Savior: “To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
Grace ambassador
Active Member
Precious friend, Excellent work on God's Eternal Salvation.
Similar to my own study: God's Operation On All new-born babes In Christ!
Amen.
Cyrus
Active Member
The unfaithful believer will not receive a special place in the kingdom of Christ like those who are fortunate enough to be allowed to reign with Him. But the unfaithful believer will not lose his salvation.
The term translated “faithless” simply means “unbelieving.” Interestingly enough, this verb is in the, you guessed it, present tense. And it’s from the same root word used in John where believing is discussed in connection with gaining eternal life.
The apostle’s meaning is evident. Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy. Christ will remain faithful.
Jesus allowing a man to retain his salvation once he has lost his faith? That is not an easy pill to swallow. The reason Christ will not take back His gift of eternal life: “For He cannot deny Himself.” It's all about the union each believer shares in the body of Christ. Once a person places trust in Christ’s death as the payment for sin, he or she immediately becomes part of the body of Christ.
You just can't undo that.
The term translated “faithless” simply means “unbelieving.” Interestingly enough, this verb is in the, you guessed it, present tense. And it’s from the same root word used in John where believing is discussed in connection with gaining eternal life.
The apostle’s meaning is evident. Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy. Christ will remain faithful.
Jesus allowing a man to retain his salvation once he has lost his faith? That is not an easy pill to swallow. The reason Christ will not take back His gift of eternal life: “For He cannot deny Himself.” It's all about the union each believer shares in the body of Christ. Once a person places trust in Christ’s death as the payment for sin, he or she immediately becomes part of the body of Christ.
You just can't undo that.
NetChaplain
Active Member
Hi Cyrus, thanks for the reply! If unfaithful means "no faith," then one cannot please God (Heb 11:6). I think it's all about faith because it is the only attribute that connects one to God (Eph 2:8).
This is true, trust and faith are synonymous. Also, "without faith it's impossible to please God (Heb 11:6). Plus, for people to say they believe and later say they don't believe is not possible; one either believes or not. Faith and salvation are equally required to be born again (saved), and neither can ever be diminished in any way.
The passages that seems to support the concept of losing faith and salvation are always in a context of an "assumption," i.e. "If one were to do this or that, this would happen. But people that are genuinely saved never do anything to lose their faith. God ensures that you will always want to remain in Him (Phl 2:13).
I believe God already knows whether or not one is truly genuine concerning receiving salvation when they are praying for it; that's why He gives eternal life only to those He knows are genuine about being saved! Like you've already shown, you can't take back eternal life, because it's eternal!
civic
Active Member
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Romans 8:38-39
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, / neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37-40
Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away. / For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. / And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day
Ephesians 1:13-14
And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, / who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
hope this helps !!!
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Romans 8:38-39
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, / neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37-40
Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away. / For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. / And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day
Ephesians 1:13-14
And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, / who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
hope this helps !!!
Titus
Active Member
John 15:4-6,
- abide in Me and I in you as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself except it abide in the vine no more can ye except ye abide in Me
- I am the vine ye are the branches he that abideth in Me and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruit for without Me ye can do nothing(cannot bear fruit)
- if a man abide not in Me he is cast forth as a branch and is withered and men gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned
The audience is already disciples
These men Jesus is speaking to,
Believed John 6:68-69
Been chosen by Jesus, John 15:16,
- ye have not chosen Me but I have chosen you and ordained you that ye should go and bring fruit and that your fruit should remain that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name He may give it you
Jesus said abide in Me
A command.
A command implies the possibility of not abiding.
Ongoing responsibility.
If abiding were irreversible the command would be meaningless.
These men are a branch in the vine.
Jesus is the vine.
These men are in the vine as branches.
Real connection to Christ.
Yet the branches can be,
Cut off
Cast out
Burned
You cannot be cut off if you were never apart of the Vine/Jesus.
The OSAS claim, " if they fall away they were never really part of Christ never really saved".
Cast out, burned are judgment terms.
Throughout Scripture fire represents divine judgment.
Matthew 13:40-42,
- as therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire so shall it be in the end of the world
The Son of man shall send forth His angels and they gather out of His kingdom all things that offend and them which do iniquity
and shall cast them into a furnace of fire there shall be walling and gnashing of teeth
The fruit can only be produced if they are in Christ.
Fruit is ongoing obedience continued faithfulness.
A branch that stops producing fruit,
Loses its life.
Dries up.
Is destroyed.
OSAS reverses Jesus' logic.
If they stop producing fruit they were never alive.
OSAS survives only by,
Redefining branch
Redefining abide
Redefining fire
Importing assumptions not found in the text.
When John 15 is read with no presuppositions.
Salvation is IN Christ.
Security is IN Christ.
Departure from Christ results in loss.
Galatians 5:4,
- Christ is become of no effect unto you whosoever of you are justified by the law(law of Moses)
ye are fallen from grace
Acts 13:39,
- and by him all that believe are justified from all things from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses
- abide in Me and I in you as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself except it abide in the vine no more can ye except ye abide in Me
- I am the vine ye are the branches he that abideth in Me and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruit for without Me ye can do nothing(cannot bear fruit)
- if a man abide not in Me he is cast forth as a branch and is withered and men gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned
The audience is already disciples
These men Jesus is speaking to,
Believed John 6:68-69
Been chosen by Jesus, John 15:16,
- ye have not chosen Me but I have chosen you and ordained you that ye should go and bring fruit and that your fruit should remain that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name He may give it you
Jesus said abide in Me
A command.
A command implies the possibility of not abiding.
Ongoing responsibility.
If abiding were irreversible the command would be meaningless.
These men are a branch in the vine.
Jesus is the vine.
These men are in the vine as branches.
Real connection to Christ.
Yet the branches can be,
Cut off
Cast out
Burned
You cannot be cut off if you were never apart of the Vine/Jesus.
The OSAS claim, " if they fall away they were never really part of Christ never really saved".
Cast out, burned are judgment terms.
Throughout Scripture fire represents divine judgment.
Matthew 13:40-42,
- as therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire so shall it be in the end of the world
The Son of man shall send forth His angels and they gather out of His kingdom all things that offend and them which do iniquity
and shall cast them into a furnace of fire there shall be walling and gnashing of teeth
The fruit can only be produced if they are in Christ.
Fruit is ongoing obedience continued faithfulness.
A branch that stops producing fruit,
Loses its life.
Dries up.
Is destroyed.
OSAS reverses Jesus' logic.
If they stop producing fruit they were never alive.
OSAS survives only by,
Redefining branch
Redefining abide
Redefining fire
Importing assumptions not found in the text.
When John 15 is read with no presuppositions.
Salvation is IN Christ.
Security is IN Christ.
Departure from Christ results in loss.
Galatians 5:4,
- Christ is become of no effect unto you whosoever of you are justified by the law(law of Moses)
ye are fallen from grace
Acts 13:39,
- and by him all that believe are justified from all things from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses
NetChaplain
Active Member
Applicable passages, thanks C!
Jay
Active Member
You can't blame God it was all Satan's own doing.
Why would Satan, an angel, rebel against God? According to Isaiah 14:12–14 another symbolic description, Satan rebelled against God because of pride. Satan did not want to be the most beautiful or most powerful angel. Satan wanted to be God. Satan did not want to worship God. Satan wanted to be worshiped. So, Satan rebelled and became the fallen angel we now know as the devil. His fate will be eternity in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10
Jay
Active Member
Satan put himself in a lost state. Happy New Year to your and yours.
