Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

Greetings Fran, trust you got a good night of sleep, it does indeed help us to think much better, and to reason with others as we do here on the forum.

I sleep very well RB.
Hope you do too.

Fran, I clearly said:

Fran, I think I have used Nehemiah 8:8 with you before, but in case I have not, then please consider:

Nehemiah 8:8​

“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”

The duty of every man/woman of God is to read the word of God distinctly, and THEN apply the true biblical sense to what you are reading, SO THAT the hearers thereof can understand properly what the Spirit intended to be meant to be understood from His word. It is not that difficult, but few practice this biblical methodology

I guess YOU practice it RB...
and the rest of us DO NOT
because we do NOT agree with your reformed theology.

Your reformed theology is only a few hundred years old.
Christianity is 2 thousand years old.

WHICH ONE should we trust?
All the theologians before Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Knox and the rest...
were just really dumb, I guess we could assume.

Luckily, Calviin came along and was able to FIX all those doctrine that the church got wrong
in all those years. What luck!

of teaching the word of God to others; most just run with the sound bites and create a false meaning in order to support their heresy

Yes.
Exactly.
Sounds just like what YOU do.
You follow heretical teachings.
Heretical means APART FROM MAINLINE CHRISTIANITY....

You follow DIFFERENT GOSPEL.
Paul warned against this:

Galatians 1:6-8
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting * Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another; only * there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

~ some knowing and some no doubt do this unknowingly. God is their Judge, not me while living in this body of sin and death; one day I'll be free from this body, and then I will judge angles, but not until then.

I don't judge YOU RB....
I can judge what you believe and teach.

IT IS NOT BIBLICAL.

If dead always means spiritual death, then that would be very true, and that's not my personal opinion but Jesus' very own teaching, so be careful not to mock truth!

Silly statement to which I will not reply.

John 10:26-28​

“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

No problem for the Lord Jesus to communicate to his very own sheep.

Well, apparently, then, YOU have a problem understanding what Jesus said.

Here is what He said:

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Unless Jesus was totally unable to communicate....and He made conflicting statements...
it's up to YOU to go figure out how to RECONCILE these two statements.

Then come back and report what you were able to come up with.

In John 10:26-28 you think Jesus is stating that NOTHING can take you away from Him....
In John 15:1-2 the same Jesus is stating that you can be cut off from the vine.

Which is it?

No Fran, I know well what I was doing, even though you do not, the problem is yours, not mine.

James 5:19,20​

“Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

A brother, or sister that err from the truth and one converts him back into the way, much like Paul rebuking Peter and converting him back into the paths of the true gospel of Christ;

What does CONVERT mean RB?
If I need to be CONVERTED BACK....
what happened that I am no longer converted??

or Christ looking at Peter when he sinned, causing him to go out and wept bitterly over his sin of denying Christ, or it could be any sin a brother or sister commits and one convert him from the err of his way, he does two things for that erring brethren: 1) he saved him from death, which could be intrepreted in more than one way ~ one would be a literal death of the body much like those at Corinth that had fallen asleep from misusing the Lord's supper, etc.; or, could save a erring brethren from spiritual living among those profess believers that do nothing more than go through the motion of being religious, when their heart is not fully engaged in serving God and loving his word, people, etc.

WHERE does it say all of this?
You add to scripture.
PLEASE post the verses in question and then go verse by verse and list HOW you are CORRECTLY exegeting them.
I do this all the time.

Less talking about and more just doing it.

If someone is being saved FROM DEATH...it could be physical or spiritual.
It's the same.
THEY WERE DYING and are being saved.

If we DIE we are not saved...
not physically
and not spiritually.

It is you who states that we are all dead...
so dead means dead even in THIS CASE RB.

2) such people add sin to sin while they live such a life of not fully serving Christ, but their own lust...but if converted then a MULTITUDE of SINS that they would commit while living such a life, those sins are covered by not being committed by the fact they were converted by another brother.

Wow. Nice word salad.
You know Kamala I guess.

§What you posted above means NOTHING.
It doesn't even make sense.

Explained above!

You didn't explian anything.
You put some words together that you THINK explained something.

Try posting the verses and then go verse by verse like I do.
Let's see what you come up with.


You teach heresy and then try to explain it.
Incredible.

 

[Red Baker]

@GodsGrace

I guess YOU practice it RB...
and the rest of us DO NOT
because we do NOT agree with your reformed theology.

I never said others did not, but will say few do, and leave it there. If that upsets you, so be it, the Pharisees were also easily offended at Christ's teachings.

Matthew 15:12-14​

“Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”

Also, once again, I'm not of the Reformed community of believers which shows just how little you truly understand the differences between Particular Baptist and the Reformed teaching of others. A huge difference between the two, you need to study up on the two, then maybe you would stop making false accusations. Calvin and Luther rejected my forefathers, even though we have respect unto them for their stance on the scriptures, more so on practical living then teachings on other subjects. Enough said, let us more one to more important truths.

Your reformed theology is only a few hundred years old.
Christianity is 2 thousand years old.

I follow the NT first and foremost, since all doctrine in germ from from Genesis to Matthew is revealed clearly in the NT. If you have reference to the doctrine of unconditional election by grace alone through the redemption work of Jesus Christ, acting as our suetry, then I'm a follower of Jesus Christ, a product of apostle Paul's labor among the Gentiles, call me what you will, but I'm here to defend my teachings based upon the word of God, not men that were not inspired by the Holy Ghost.

WHICH ONE should we trust?
All the theologians before Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Knox and the rest...
were just really dumb, I guess we could assume.

Fran, trust the word of God, for me, the KJV which my forefathers trusted in. Those godly men mentioned by you, served their generation according to the light God was pleased to grant to them.

Luckily, Calviin came along and was able to FIX all those doctrine that the church got wrong
in all those years. What luck!

Call it luck or God's timely, let others judge:

2 Chronicles 34:14-21....​

"And when they brought out the money that was brought into the house of the LORD, Hilkiah the priest found a book of the law of the LORD given by Moses. And Hilkiah answered and said to Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD. And Hilkiah delivered the book to Shaphan. And Shaphan carried the book to the king, and brought the king word back again, saying, All that was committed to thy servants, they do it. And they have gathered together the money that was found in the house of the LORD, and have delivered it into the hand of the overseers, and to the hand of the workmen. Then Shaphan the scribe told the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath given me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the law, that he rent his clothes. And the king commanded Hilkiah, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Abdon the son of Micah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah a servant of the king's, saying, Go, enquire of the LORD for me, and for them that are left in Israel and in Judah, concerning the words of the book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of the LORD, to do after all that is written in this book.

Luck or God's appointed timely? I do not believe in luck, maybe you do.

Yes.
Exactly.
Sounds just like what YOU do.
You follow heretical teachings.
Heretical means APART FROM MAINLINE CHRISTIANITY....

You follow DIFFERENT GOSPEL.
Paul warned against this:

Galatians 1:6-8
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting * Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another; only * there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

You said: "Heretical means APART FROM MAINLINE CHRISTIANITY...." So wrong! Heresy is going not against mainline so-called Christianity but against the word of God, period! Christ went against the mainline religious teachings of his days, but he never departed from thus saith the word of Go ~ he lived by every word of God, and so do all of his children. I care less what the so-called mainline Christianity teach, which I assume you are including the great whore from Rome?

Matthew 7:13,14​

“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

If you think I teach another gospel then just you and I go to Galatians 2:16-5:4 and let us see who is the guilty party, I'm ready any time you think you are.

I can judge what you believe and teach.

IT IS NOT BIBLICAL.

Prove it, let us get started today, you start the thread and I'll be there.

Well, apparently, then, YOU have a problem understanding what Jesus said.

Here is what He said:

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Unless Jesus was totally unable to communicate....and He made conflicting statements...
it's up to YOU to go figure out how to RECONCILE these two statements.

Then come back and report what you were able to come up with.

Okay..... deal, I'll stop here and will come back and address John 15, looking forward doing so.

 

[civic]

FYI as a Calvinist for 40 years and for 25 years on a calvinist site I quoted Got Questions all of the time as they are very much a calvinist leaning site. Even AI got it right below

Yes, Got Questions Ministries is generally considered a Calvinist site. The website is known to promote Calvinistic doctrines, including predestination, Lordship Salvation, and God's sovereignty. They are also described as conservative, evangelical, and non-denominationa

 

[civic]

Right from their website at Got ?


The five points of Calvinism can be summarized by the acronym TULIP. T stands for total depravity, U for unconditional election, L for limited atonement, I for irresistible grace, and P for perseverance of the saints. Here are the definitions and Scripture references Calvinists use to defend their beliefs:

Total Depravity - As a result of Adam’s fall, the entire human race is affected; all humanity is dead in trespasses and sins. Man is unable to save himself (Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-18).

Unconditional Election - Because man is dead in sin, he is unable to initiate a response to God; therefore, in eternity past God elected certain people to salvation. Election and predestination are unconditional; they are not based on man’s response (Romans 8:29-30;9:11; Ephesians 1:4-6, 11-12) because man is unable to respond, nor does he want to.

Limited Atonement - Because God determined that certain ones should be saved as a result of God’s unconditional election, He determined that Christ should die for the elect alone. All whom God has elected and for whom Christ died will be saved (Matthew 1:21; John 10:11; 17:9; Acts 20:28; Romans 8:32; Ephesians 5:25).

Irresistible Grace - Those whom God elected He draws to Himself through irresistible grace. God makes man willing to come to Him. When God calls, man responds (John 6:37, 44; 10:16).

Perseverance of the Saints - The precise ones God has elected and drawn to Himself through the Holy Spirit will persevere in faith. None whom God has elected will be lost; they are eternally secure (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:3-14).

While all these doctrines have a biblical basis, many people reject all or some of them. So-called “four-point Calvinists” accept Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints as biblical doctrines. Man is definitely sinful and incapable of believing in God on his own. God elects people based on His will alone – election is not based on any merit in the person chosen. All those whom God has chosen will come to faith. All those who are truly born-again will persevere in their faith. As for Limited Atonement, however, four-point Calvinists believe that atonement is unlimited, arguing that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just for the sins of the elect. “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). Other verses in opposition to limited atonement are John 1:29; 3:16; 1 Timothy 2:6; and 2 Peter 2:1.

The five-point Calvinists, however, see problems with four-point Calvinism. First, they argue, if Total Depravity is true, then Unlimited Atonement cannot possibly be true because, if Jesus died for the sins of every person, then whether or not His death is applicable to an individual depends on whether or not that person “accepts” Christ. But as we have seen from the above description of Total Depravity, man in his natural state has no capacity whatsoever to choose God, nor does he want to. In addition, if Unlimited Atonement is true, then hell is full of people for whom Christ died. He shed His blood in vain for them. To the five-point Calvinist, this is unthinkable. Please note: this article is only a brief summary of the five points of Calvinism. For a more in-depth look, please visit the following pages: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints.

 

[civic]

and here they are Monergists( Got ?'s ) Calvinists. The same when it comes to Gods Sovereignty they are Calvinists.

Monergism and synergism have been debated within the church for centuries. It is no exaggeration to say that this debate concerns the very heart of the gospel. First, let us define the two terms. Discussions about monergism vs. synergism are, theologically speaking, about who brings about our salvation. Monergism is the view that God alone effects our salvation. This view is usually associated with Calvinistic and Reformed traditions. Synergism is the view that God works together with us in some way to effect salvation.

The term monergism comes from a compound Greek word meaning “to work alone”; synergism is from another compound Greek word meaning “to work together.” As mentioned, monergism is often associated with Calvinism. Calvinists often accuse Arminians of holding to synergism; however, many, if not most, Arminians would deny the accusation and place themselves in the monergism camp.

Monergism says that God does the work of salvation, and the elect are the beneficiaries of that work. Even the faith needed to receive God’s salvation is a gift from God (see Ephesians 2:8–9). Synergism says that God does part of the work of salvation, but mankind must still do something to reap the benefits: muster faith, be baptized, continue in good works, etc. Defined this way, synergism is clearly unbiblical. No human work or merit can be added to God’s grace without destroying grace (Romans 11:6).

Calvinists typically associate the term monergism with Calvinism: if you believe in monergism, you must be a Calvinist. It’s true that Calvinism is monergistic, but there are also many Arminians who consider their system of theology monergistic, in this way: faith must be present to receive God’s grace, but faith itself is not meritorious. Faith receives grace, but it does not cause grace. In fact, classical Arminianism teaches that the faith needed to receive divine grace is a response to God’s prevenient grace. So, God still does the work of salvation, even though an act of human will (enabled by God) is seen as a necessary requirement to receive it.

The essence of the monergistic argument is that God is in the business of actually saving people and not merely making them “savable.” Monergism starts with an enemy of God, seemingly unsavable, and, by the grace of God, brings that spiritually dead person into saving faith and union with Christ. Synergism, in all its forms (including Pelagianism), starts with a person who has at least a spark of spiritual life. This person has the natural ability to take a step toward God apart from grace and thus meet God in the middle. God may do most of the saving work, but He must somehow also depend on the work of the individual being saved.

Monergism claims that God does all that is necessary for our salvation and that He is sufficient to save; synergism claims that God is necessary but insufficient. The synergistic system ultimately places the responsibility for salvation on us. Monergism places the responsibility for our salvation wholly on God. It is God who has “predestined . . . called . . . justified . . . glorified” us in Christ (Romans 8:30). It is He who began and will complete the work of salvation in us (Philippians 1:6). It is He who keeps the sheep secure in His hand (John 10:27–30).

In conclusion, the weight of the biblical evidence clearly supports the monergistic view of salvation—Jesus is the author and perfector of our salvation (Hebrews 12:2). There is no room for us to boast, and all the glory goes to God our Savior!

 

[Aaron]

My experience has been that those who have problems with the doctrine of eternal security have a distorted understanding of what took place at the Cross. That may sound as if I am being critical. But in reality I am more puzzled than anything else.

When I think of Calvary, and the price that was paid to provide me with salvation, the thought of my having the power to undo all of that seems preposterous. It seems to me that God's plan of salvation is a gift, a perfect gift. He makes it so that it works. He would not give us a defective gift now would He? No, He gives us eternal life.

 

[GodsGrace]

and here they are Monergists( Got ?'s ) Calvinists. The same when it comes to Gods Sovereignty they are Calvinists.

Monergism and synergism have been debated within the church for centuries. It is no exaggeration to say that this debate concerns the very heart of the gospel. First, let us define the two terms. Discussions about monergism vs. synergism are, theologically speaking, about who brings about our salvation. Monergism is the view that God alone effects our salvation. This view is usually associated with Calvinistic and Reformed traditions. Synergism is the view that God works together with us in some way to effect salvation.

The term monergism comes from a compound Greek word meaning “to work alone”; synergism is from another compound Greek word meaning “to work together.” As mentioned, monergism is often associated with Calvinism. Calvinists often accuse Arminians of holding to synergism; however, many, if not most, Arminians would deny the accusation and place themselves in the monergism camp.

Monergism says that God does the work of salvation, and the elect are the beneficiaries of that work. Even the faith needed to receive God’s salvation is a gift from God (see Ephesians 2:8–9). Synergism says that God does part of the work of salvation, but mankind must still do something to reap the benefits: muster faith, be baptized, continue in good works, etc. Defined this way, synergism is clearly unbiblical. No human work or merit can be added to God’s grace without destroying grace (Romans 11:6).

Calvinists typically associate the term monergism with Calvinism: if you believe in monergism, you must be a Calvinist. It’s true that Calvinism is monergistic, but there are also many Arminians who consider their system of theology monergistic, in this way: faith must be present to receive God’s grace, but faith itself is not meritorious. Faith receives grace, but it does not cause grace. In fact, classical Arminianism teaches that the faith needed to receive divine grace is a response to God’s prevenient grace. So, God still does the work of salvation, even though an act of human will (enabled by God) is seen as a necessary requirement to receive it.

The essence of the monergistic argument is that God is in the business of actually saving people and not merely making them “savable.” Monergism starts with an enemy of God, seemingly unsavable, and, by the grace of God, brings that spiritually dead person into saving faith and union with Christ. Synergism, in all its forms (including Pelagianism), starts with a person who has at least a spark of spiritual life. This person has the natural ability to take a step toward God apart from grace and thus meet God in the middle. God may do most of the saving work, but He must somehow also depend on the work of the individual being saved.

Monergism claims that God does all that is necessary for our salvation and that He is sufficient to save; synergism claims that God is necessary but insufficient. The synergistic system ultimately places the responsibility for salvation on us. Monergism places the responsibility for our salvation wholly on God. It is God who has “predestined . . . called . . . justified . . . glorified” us in Christ (Romans 8:30). It is He who began and will complete the work of salvation in us (Philippians 1:6). It is He who keeps the sheep secure in His hand (John 10:27–30).

In conclusion, the weight of the biblical evidence clearly supports the monergistic view of salvation—Jesus is the author and perfector of our salvation (Hebrews 12:2). There is no room for us to boast, and all the glory goes to God our Savior!

And if you just ask WHAT IS PREDESTINATION?
It becomes abundantly clear that the site supports Calvinism.

 

[GodsGrace]

My experience has been that those who have problems with the doctrine of eternal security have a distorted understanding of what took place at the Cross. That may sound as if I am being critical. But in reality I am more puzzled than anything else.

When I think of Calvary, and the price that was paid to provide me with salvation, the thought of my having the power to undo all of that seems preposterous. It seems to me that God's plan of salvation is a gift, a perfect gift. He makes it so that it works. He would not give us a defective gift now would He? No, He gives us eternal life.

His gift is not defective Aaron.
WE are defective if we abandon God.

How could you believe eternal security means OSAS?
When Paul warns us throughout all of his writings about FALLING AWAY...
LEAVING THE FAITH....FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR THE PRIZE...etc.

I am the one that is puzzled.

Jesus went to the cross for us.

Do WE have any responsibility at all for our salvation?

Are we not to do the will of the Father?

Maybe we should have MORE respect for Calvary and give to God some gifts back
instead of thinking He did everything and we are to do NOTHING...as some teach.


Be doers of the word and not only hearers of the word.
James 1:22

 

[civic]

And if you just ask WHAT IS PREDESTINATION?
It becomes abundantly clear that the site supports Calvinism.

ditto like I said as a former Calvinist is was my favorite site to quote on another forum for that very reason.

 

[Aaron]

and here they are Monergists( Got ?'s ) Calvinists. The same when it comes to Gods Sovereignty they are Calvinists.

Monergism and synergism have been debated within the church for centuries. It is no exaggeration to say that this debate concerns the very heart of the gospel. First, let us define the two terms. Discussions about monergism vs. synergism are, theologically speaking, about who brings about our salvation. Monergism is the view that God alone effects our salvation. This view is usually associated with Calvinistic and Reformed traditions. Synergism is the view that God works together with us in some way to effect salvation.

The term monergism comes from a compound Greek word meaning “to work alone”; synergism is from another compound Greek word meaning “to work together.” As mentioned, monergism is often associated with Calvinism. Calvinists often accuse Arminians of holding to synergism; however, many, if not most, Arminians would deny the accusation and place themselves in the monergism camp.

Monergism says that God does the work of salvation, and the elect are the beneficiaries of that work. Even the faith needed to receive God’s salvation is a gift from God (see <span class="biblePreviewerContainer"><a href="https://eng.global.bible/bible/9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04/EPH.2?passageId=EPH.2.8-EPH.2.9" class="biblePreviewerLink" data-bible-ref="2:8-2:9" data-bible-book="EPH" data-bible-trans="9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04">Ephesians 2:8–9</a></span>). Synergism says that God does part of the work of salvation, but mankind must still do something to reap the benefits: muster faith, be baptized, continue in good works, etc. Defined this way, synergism is clearly unbiblical. No human work or merit can be added to God’s grace without destroying grace (<span class="biblePreviewerContainer"><a href="https://eng.global.bible/bible/9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04
/ROM.11?passageId=ROM.11.6" class="biblePreviewerLink" data-bible-ref="11:6-11:6" data-bible-book="ROM" data-bible-trans="9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04">Romans 11:6</a></span>).

Calvinists typically associate the term monergism with Calvinism: if you believe in monergism, you must be a Calvinist. It’s true that Calvinism is monergistic, but there are also many Arminians who consider their system of theology monergistic, in this way: faith must be present to receive God’s grace, but faith itself is not meritorious. Faith receives grace, but it does not cause grace. In fact, classical Arminianism teaches that the faith needed to receive divine grace is a response to God’s prevenient grace. So, God still does the work of salvation, even though an act of human will (enabled by God) is seen as a necessary requirement to receive it.

The essence of the monergistic argument is that God is in the business of actually saving people and not merely making them “savable.” Monergism starts with an enemy of God, seemingly unsavable, and, by the grace of God, brings that spiritually dead person into saving faith and union with Christ. Synergism, in all its forms (including Pelagianism), starts with a person who has at least a spark of spiritual life. This person has the natural ability to take a step toward God apart from grace and thus meet God in the middle. God may do most of the saving work, but He must somehow also depend on the work of the individual being saved.

Monergism claims that God does all that is necessary for our salvation and that He is sufficient to save; synergism claims that God is necessary but insufficient. The synergistic system ultimately places the responsibility for salvation on us. Monergism places the responsibility for our salvation wholly on God. It is God who has “predestined . . . called . . . justified . . . glorified” us in Christ (<span class="biblePreviewerContainer"><a href="https://eng.global.bible/bible/9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04
/ROM.8?passageId=ROM.8.30" class="biblePreviewerLink" data-bible-ref="8:30-8:30" data-bible-book="ROM" data-bible-trans="9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04">Romans 8:30</a></span>). It is He who began and will complete the work of salvation in us (<span class="biblePreviewerContainer"><a href="https://eng.global.bible/bible/9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04
/PHP.1?passageId=PHP.1.6" class="biblePreviewerLink" data-bible-ref="1:6-1:6" data-bible-book="PHP" data-bible-trans="9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04">Philippians 1:6</a></span>). It is He who keeps the sheep secure in His hand (<span class="biblePreviewerContainer"><a href="https://eng.global.bible/bible/9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04/JHN.10?passageId=JHN.10.27-JHN.10.30" class="biblePreviewerLink" data-bible-ref="10:27-10:30" data-bible-book="JHN" data-bible-trans="9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04">John 10:27–30</a></span>).

In conclusion, the weight of the biblical evidence clearly supports the monergistic view of salvation—Jesus is the author and perfector of our salvation (<span class="biblePreviewerContainer"><a href="https://eng.global.bible/bible/9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04
/HEB.12?passageId=HEB.12.2" class="biblePreviewerLink" data-bible-ref="12:2-12:2" data-bible-book="HEB" data-bible-trans="9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04">Hebrews 12:2</a></span>). There is no room for us to boast, and all the glory goes to God our Savior!

I have never been to their site till today. Maybe they just explain different theological concepts. I can't see why they would not admit to being Calvinistic inclined if they were.

 

[civic]

I have never been to their site till today. Maybe they just explain different theological concepts. I can't see why they would not admit to being Calvinistic inclined if they were.

There is a thing called covert Calvinism where they infiltrate churches not letting them know they are Calvinists. It’s really a thing these days. MacArthur did it back in the day at his church. He was kind of the pioneer in that area. There are all kinds of testimonies of churches where that has happened.

 

[Aaron]

His gift is not defective Aaron.
WE are defective if we abandon God.

How could you believe eternal security means OSAS?
When Paul warns us throughout all of his writings about FALLING AWAY...
LEAVING THE FAITH....FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR THE PRIZE...etc.

I am the one that is puzzled.

Jesus went to the cross for us.

Do WE have any responsibility at all for our salvation?

Are we not to do the will of the Father?

Maybe we should have MORE respect for Calvary and give to God some gifts back
instead of thinking He did everything and we are to do NOTHING...as some teach.


Be doers of the word and not only hearers of the word.
<span class="biblePreviewerContainer"><a href="https://eng.global.bible/bible/9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04
/JAS.1?passageId=JAS.1.22" class="biblePreviewerLink" data-bible-ref="1:22-1:22" data-bible-book="JAS" data-bible-trans="9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04">James 1:22</a></span>

We were defected before we accepted the free gift of salvation, now we are the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ.

If you do not believe in OSAS you do not have “eternal security”. Because you think you can lose the eternal life Jesus died to give you.

What did we do? Are we talking works salvation? As in the phrase "lest any man should boast" found in?

Because it emphasizes that salvation is a free gift from God through faith, not something earned through good works, so that no one can boast about their own merit in obtaining salvation.

We do good works after we are saved not to get saved or stay saved.

 

[Aaron]

His gift is not defective Aaron.
WE are defective if we abandon God.

How could you believe eternal security means OSAS?
When Paul warns us throughout all of his writings about FALLING AWAY...
LEAVING THE FAITH....FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR THE PRIZE...etc.

I am the one that is puzzled.

Jesus went to the cross for us.

Do WE have any responsibility at all for our salvation?

Are we not to do the will of the Father?

Maybe we should have MORE respect for Calvary and give to God some gifts back
instead of thinking He did everything and we are to do NOTHING...as some teach.


Be doers of the word and not only hearers of the word.
<span class="biblePreviewerContainer"><a href="https://eng.global.bible/bible/9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04
/JAS.1?passageId=JAS.1.22" class="biblePreviewerLink" data-bible-ref="1:22-1:22" data-bible-book="JAS" data-bible-trans="9879dbb7cfe39e4d-04">James 1:22</a></span>

We were defected before we accepted the free gift of salvation, now we are the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ.

If you do not believe in OSAS you do not have “eternal security”. Because you think you can lose the eternal life Jesus died to give you.

What did we do? Are we talking works salvation? As in the phrase "lest any man should boast" found in Eph. 2:9?

Because it emphasizes that salvation is a free gift from God through faith, not something earned through good works, so that no one can boast about their own merit in obtaining salvation.

We do good works after we are saved not to get saved or stay saved.

 

[Johann]

We were defected before we accepted the free gift of salvation, now we are the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ.

If you do not believe in OSAS you do not have “eternal security”. Because you think you can lose the eternal life Jesus died to give you.

What did we do? Are we talking works salvation? As in the phrase "lest any man should boast" found in Eph. 2:9?

Because it emphasizes that salvation is a free gift from God through faith, not something earned through good works, so that no one can boast about their own merit in obtaining salvation.

We do good works after we are saved not to get saved or stay saved.

Welcome to the forum @Aaron --and right into the "battle of the wills" Lol!

J.

 

[Aaron]

There is a thing called covert Calvinism where they infiltrate churches not letting them know they are Calvinists. It’s really a thing these days. MacArthur did it back in the day at his church. He was kind of the pioneer in that area. There are all kinds of testimonies of churches where that has happened.

Really? First I've ever heard of this. Well you learn something new everyday. Those pestie Calvinists.

 

[Aaron]

Welcome to the forum @Aaron --and right into the "battle of the wills" Lol!

J.

Where there is a will there is a way.

 

[civic]

Really? First I've ever heard of this. Well you learn something new everyday. Those pestie Calvinists.

Church Takeover Success Using Strategies from the Calvinista Playbook | The Wartburg Watch 2024

thewartburgwatch.com

 

[Doug Brents]

Church Takeover Success Using Strategies from the Calvinista Playbook | The Wartburg Watch 2024

thewartburgwatch.com

John Piper did this to the church he ministers at. He preached for 5 years there, and then "came out" as a calvinist.

 

[Red Baker]

@Aaron

My experience has been that those who have problems with the doctrine of eternal security have a distorted understanding of what took place at the Cross. That may sound as if I am being critical. But in reality I am more puzzled than anything else.

Greetings Aaron,

You are on the right path to the truth, stay on there and trust God to give you more light as you need it from His word and HE WILL.

Aaron, our eternal (yes, eternal) salvation was "SECURED" by two immutable acts of God, his oath and promises, what more do we need? Our salvation from sin and condemnation was secured by the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ ALONE, period!

I challenge any person reading this post to go to Psalms 89 and prove me wrong. I posted those verses here: #119

Consider:

Hebrews 6:17-19~"Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;"

God made a promise to Abraham concerning Isaac and confirmed that promise with an oath, which we all know it is impossible that God can lie. We like Isaac are children of God's promises, not by any work that we have had an active paart in, for then it would no longer be by grace, but by works.

Galatians 4:28-31~"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free."

We are children of FREE GRACE, nothing from our flesh helped God secured our salvation, we enjoy eternal life by two immutable acts of God, do not listen to the children of the flesh who will persecute your position on FREE GRACE without the works of the flesh. They have nothing but the flesh to glory in.

This being said, we live AS CHILDREN OF LIGHT by walking in the light of God's word proving that we are indeed children of God on the behalf of Jesus Christ redemption work that he did for his people. We have not one thing to glory in except in the FREE MERCY of God toward us according to his will that he purposed within Himself.

Questions for anyone: What did Isaac do to be born a son of Abraham, what could he do to be unborn a son of Abraham? What is the different between Abraham's two son in Galatians 4?

I do not expect answers because I generally do not get them anyway. Like the Pharisees of old, they just go away and say...We cannot tell! Because they know their answers would expose their error.

 

[Red Baker]

@Doug Brents

John Piper did this to the church he ministers at. He preached for 5 years there, and then "came out" as a calvinist.

Doug, maybe he just got converted, you cannot judge his heart, and should not. I do not know any Calvinist that would do what is said here that they do. With me, I got converted shortly after I came to Christ, but made it known and never concealed my understanding ~ it landed me at home without a place to worship, which was okay with me.