Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[ProDeo]

This is people who have deeply known Christ and forsaken trusting him as their Savior extremely deliberately.

It is not stumbling into sin, struggling with addictions or having doubts.

Agree on that.

Well then, I can stick with my opinion on OSAS, it's true but with rare exceptions. King Salomon, maybe even Judas. From public folks the name Bart Ehrman comes to mind. From personal experience maybe one or two people, from stories, young people going to Bible school and lose their faith when they learn from Church history and how the Canon came into existence.

 

[ProDeo]

Well,

It would be good to understand what it means "Not" to be under God's Law, Yes? But not according to the "other voice" in the garden God placed us in. Rather, according to the Spirit of Christ that Inspired these Words. I don't know you, so I don't know if you are interested in discussing what the scriptures actually say, or if you are just here to promote one of "many" religious philosophies of this world's religious system that we are born into, like Red is.

According to OT Law it is against God to Kill another person. "Thou shall not Kill". In your adopted religion, are "Christians" still obligated to Honor and Respect God in this Law? Or can they Kill someone, and not be guilty? What does it mean "being "Under" the OT Law"? Are you saying that as a self professing Christian, you are no longer obligated to Honor and Obey God in His Law, is that what you have been convinced "Not under the Law" means?

Doesn't the OT Law also say, "The Soul that Sins shall die"? What if men "Not being Under the Law", means that God is willing to show us Mercy, and give us a chance to repent, which would mean the man that killed would strive with all his might, all his soul to never kill another soul. In this understanding, we are not "under/ condemned by the Law that says "The soul that Sins shall die", but we are still obligated as "Christians" to "Yield ourselves" to obey God's Commandment, "though shall not kill". These are not my Words, rather, they are my understanding of Paul's Words.

Rom. 6: 15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law,(the soul that sins shall die) but under grace? (God is a Merciful God) God forbid. (That means NO! I think)

16 Know ye not, that to "whom ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Trangression of God's Laws) unto death, or of obedience (To God's Laws) unto righteousness?

Now goodness knows I understand that Red, and "Many" other promoters of this world's religious system we are born into, teaches that when we Repent and turn to God, we are no longer obligated to "Yield ourselves" to obey Him. That we can create our own judgments, commandments, our own righteousness, our own high days and sabbaths. And truly you are free to adopt them, and "Live By" the words of preachers like Red, in the same way the Jews of Paul's Time and before "lived by" the teaching of other voices like Gamaliel and corrupt priests.

But consider if you will, what you were able to find out concerning the question you asked, by simply following, Not my instruction, not Red's instruction. but be Listening to the Jesus "of the Bible" and becoming a "Doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only. By following the Christ's instruction, you were able to discern the difference between eating a cow, and eating a pig.

Imagine your relationship with God if you Trusted the Jesus "of the Bible", and not this world's preachers "who come in Christ's Name" in all of your life's choices?

Laws Concerning Sexual Immorality
Deut 22:13 “If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then hates her
Deut 22:14 and accuses her of misconduct and brings a bad name upon her, saying, ‘I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her evidence of virginity,’
Deut 22:15 then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate.
Deut 22:16 And the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man to marry, and he hates her;
Deut 22:17 and behold, he has accused her of misconduct, saying, “I did not find in your daughter evidence of virginity.” And yet this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloak before the elders of the city.
Deut 22:18 Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip him,
Deut 22:19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name upon a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife. He may not divorce her all his days.
Deut 22:20 But if the thing is true, that evidence of virginity was not found in the young woman,
Deut 22:21 then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done an outrageous thing in Israel by whoring in her father's house. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.
Deut 22:22 “If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.
Deut 22:23 “If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her,
Deut 22:24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.
Deut 22:25 “But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die.
Deut 22:26 But you shall do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no offense punishable by death. For this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor,
Deut 22:27 because he met her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her.
Deut 22:28 “If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found,
Deut 22:29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.

-----

This is also Scripture.

Should we follow it and end up in jail?

1 Cor 11:10 That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

Shall I command my wife to always cover her head because Paul believed the sons of God in Gen 6 were angels lusting after women? And I actually believe Paul is right about that, so what shall I do? No one ever told me in Church about this commandment of Paul.

At least for eating animal flesh for food God made it clear to Peter : Kill and eat.

 

[Red Baker]

@ProDeo

At least for eating animal flesh for food God made it clear to Peter : Kill and eat.

He did indeed, unless one has a bias agenda they have been duped into believing, then they will corrupt scriptures to protect their little golden calf.

And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

It was filled with animals, insects, (creeping things) and birds forbidden to Jews (Lev 11:1-47). Yet, under the religion of Jesus Christ ALL things per listed in Acts 10 are permitted for food, if received with thanksgiving.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

It would be good to understand what it means "Not" to be under God's Law, Yes?

Since you mentioned me by name a few times in this post, I'm going to post an answer your confused post, and confused it is.

Studyman, as I have said a few times over, get you away from the small circle of scriptures you live in, will expose more of your error. It would indeed be good to know what it means to not be under the law, and what it means to live by God's Royal law. You have absolutely no glue. and I do not believe you are a lone wolf in this respect.

Obviously space and time will not permit us to go into depth on this subject that would take a few posts, but we can sum it up in a few words I think and still be helpful to our readers.

There are many laws/commandments we are still under as NT believers that we are forever under obligation to live by.

1) The law of love:

James 2:8​

“If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:” The law of Love is ever blinding on us to live by

2) The law of marriage:

Romans 7:2​

“For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.” This law has been since creation and is ever blinding, with very limited exceptions and only that because of the hardness of man's heart, that Moses allowed limited exceptions, and Christ narrowed down those exceptions for us.

3) The law of women being learning silence. (not a very popular law anymore).

1 Corinthians 14:34​

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”

Just a few of hundreds of commandments mentioned in the OT that were NOT limited to Israel, some before Israel was ever an nation.

Now, what does it mean not to be under the law per Romans 6?

Romans 6:15​

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.”

The meaning of this is very simple ~we are NOT free from the Law in every point of view. The freedom from the moral law which the believer enjoys, is a freedom from an obligation to fulfill it in his own person for his justification ~and a freedom from its condemnation on account of imperfection of obedience ~our surety, Jesus Christ, fulfilled all of the Law perfectly in our place. We are NOT under the Law as far as a need to seek justification by our obeiedence, for that would be impossible to do in our flesh as we are by nature.

Also, we must separate the Moral law of God from certain dietaries laws given ONLY to Israel until the coming of Christ, which laws typified the unclean Gentiles whom God WOULD cleansed ~with Acts 10 as our proof text, along with Acts 15 and Galatians 2, etc. Enough on this for now.

I don't know you, so I don't know if you are interested in discussing what the scriptures actually say, or if you are just here to promote one of "many" religious philosophies of this world's religious system that we are born into, like Red is.

Studyman, I'm only interesting is what saith the word of God, not your opinion or mine counts, but what does the word of God teach is all that truly matters, we both shall soon go the way of all the living, and I want to take the truth with me to face the God of heaven, God being my witness.

According to OT Law it is against God to Kill another person. "Thou shall not Kill". In your adopted religion, are "Christians" still obligated to Honor and Respect God in this Law? Or can they Kill someone, and not be guilty? What does it mean "being "Under" the OT Law"? Are you saying that as a self professing Christian, you are no longer obligated to Honor and Obey God in His Law, is that what you have been convinced "Not under the Law" means?

Explained above.

Doesn't the OT Law also say, "The Soul that Sins shall die"? What if men "Not being Under the Law", means that God is willing to show us Mercy, and give us a chance to repent, which would mean the man that killed would strive with all his might, all his soul to never kill another soul. In this understanding, we are not "under/ condemned by the Law that says "The soul that Sins shall die", but we are still obligated as "Christians" to "Yield ourselves" to obey God's Commandment, "though shall not kill". These are not my Words, rather, they are my understanding of Paul's Words.

Explained above.

Rom. 6: 15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law,(the soul that sins shall die) but under grace? (God is a Merciful God) God forbid. (That means NO! I think)

16 Know ye not, that to "whom ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Trangression of God's Laws) unto death, or of obedience (To God's Laws) unto righteousness?

Explained above.

Now goodness knows I understand that Red, and "Many" other promoters of this world's religious system we are born into, teaches that when we Repent and turn to God, we are no longer obligated to "Yield ourselves" to obey Him. That we can create our own judgments, commandments, our own righteousness, our own high days and sabbaths. And truly you are free to adopt them, and "Live By" the words of preachers like Red, in the same way the Jews of Paul's Time and before "lived by" the teaching of other voices like Gamaliel and corrupt priests.

You are being a dishonest witness to what I believe and teach, shame on you! Is this the best you have to offer to others? Pitiful indeed. But, what do we expect from men void of true understanding and going about to establish their own righteousness? Just what we are hearing from you.

But consider if you will, what you were able to find out concerning the question you asked, by simply following, Not my instruction, not Red's instruction. but be Listening to the Jesus "of the Bible" and becoming a "Doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only. By following the Christ's instruction, you were able to discern the difference between eating a cow, and eating a pig.

Studyman, you truly have never answer the gentleman's question, so from you he has not learn one thing, other than he should not eat pork as you teach. Are you are doing is what Christ said of the Pharisees:

Matthew 23:13​

“But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.”

Imagine your relationship with God if you Trusted the Jesus "of the Bible", and not this world's preachers "who come in Christ's Name" in all of your life's choices?

You jesus is another jesus. The Christ of the word of God, was God manifest in human flesh, without a beginning and has no end, eternal both ways ! The ONLY God that we shall ever see with our eyes.

Matthew 5:8​

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”

 

[MTMattie]

Never heard of him that I recall. I'll have to look him up

For others who may not know or forgotten

Marshall Applewhite - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Marshall Herff Applewhite Jr. (May 17, 1931 – March 26, 1997), also known as Do, among other names,was an American religious leader who founded and led the Heaven's Gate new religious movement (often described as a cult), and organized their mass suicide in 1997. The suicide is the largest mass suicide to occur inside the U.S

There are a lot of links, other then WIKI, if anyone wants to know more

 

[synergy]

OK D....
But WHO wrote the bible?

The reason you know about Jesus is because the Apostles, or those they taught, wrote about Jesus.
We know the story of Jesus because someone wrote about it so we could know it today.

There was no NT before it came into existance....
There was hardly anything written. Paul, Peter, James, etc...they went into all nations teaching about Jesus.

So, get this, my point is that we're trusting the APOSTLES to know about Jesus!

We're trusting what THEY taught and wrote....
Jesus wrote nothing down on paper.
Sometimes I wish He would have...

This is a very good point. We oftentimes neglect the fact that it was the Apostles, inspired by the Holy Spirit, who wrote the Bible, And get this, that was not their only Holy Spirit inspired contribution. Church planting, with all its doctrinal structure, was another massive contribution by them. There are many records of those churches preserved in catacombs across many places in Europe. Italy, France, Greece contains catacombs.

 

[Duane]

For others who may not know or forgotten

Marshall Applewhite - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are a lot of links, other then WIKI, if anyone wants to know more

What was the deal with them having spare change on them? I don't see it online but I think they made a big deal when it first came to the press.

 

[MTMattie]

What was the deal with them having spare change on them? I don't see it online but I think they made a big deal when it first came to the press.

I dont remember. I did not follow it much other then local news broadcasts.

Marshall had the oddest eyes... who could look into them and believe anything?

 

[Red Baker]

@synergy

Sorry for the delay on posting this which I promised to do.

James 2:14​

“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?”

The question is rhetorical, which we can and should easily answer ~ Such faith has no profit! It cannot save! From the wrath of God. James, an apostle of Jesus Christ, has no use for those professing faith but living fruitless lives. As the followers of Jesus Christ, we should as dogmatically deny the salvation of those without works.

In what sense does faith save as taught by James, one of the pillars of the church in Jerusalem? It only saves by laying hold of eternal life for evidence of coming salvation. Let us be very clear on this point.

God's election of grace is not based on faith, for God chose us in Christ without faith (Psalm 14:1-3; Ephesians 1:3-12).

Legal justification needs no faith, for God justified freely by Christ (Romans 5:15-19; 8:28-34; Titus 3:4-7).

Regeneration is not based on faith, for the new birth must come first (John 1:13; 3:3,6,8; 5:24). Conversion definitely requires faith, for it is our belief of the gospel of God’s gracious salvation.

Glorification can only be known and trusted to the degree that a child of God brings forth works.

We believe on Christ, not to be justified or regenerated, but to lay hold of coming salvation. James did not write a theoretical lesson for their evangelistic program, but concerning their own conduct!

Actual, legal, literal, or vital salvation is not pursued here, or you end up being saved by works! The point pursued is the "evidence of" eternal life resulting in future salvation ~ faith plus works. The word of God teaches: Faith provides evidence of eternal life "only" when it bears good works (2nd Peter 1:5-11; Ist Thessalonians 1:2-4). It is not that difficult to follow James when we consider ALL scriptures as a cohesive whole.

James 2:21-24~"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

What justification is considered here? Our legal position before God, or our knowledge of it? Our legal position before God, or His declaration of it? Our legal position, or our assurance of it? It should be clear to any who preaches the doctrine of pure grace. These rhetorical questions indicate that this concept of justification by works should be easy to see. Faith leads to works to please God, for faith believes God rewards diligent seekers (Hebrews 11:6). The faith of Abraham in Genesis 15:6 was made complete and true by his works in Genesis 22:12. Faith is dead and devilish without works; but it is complete or perfect by works, as with Abraham.

We must remember Abraham was a just and righteous man, living by faith, long before he got to Gen 15:6. It is one of the travesties of Bible interpretation to hear that Abraham was justified in 15:6 in any other way that God declaring his faith in an impossible promise as evidence of his righteousness.

What can we see from Abraham’s history? The real evidence proving righteousness requires works. What we see is that Genesis 15:6 is only part of the picture. It is incomplete without Gen 22:12!

Those who cry, “Sola Fide,” and think that Genesis 15:6 is the end of justification are wrong. Abraham’s subjective justification by faith was made complete or perfect by his further works.

Justification is being declared righteous by God: Abraham was declared so by faith and works.

It is vain confidence to trust in some belief, decision, or profession of Jesus without good works.

Abraham’s legal justification, or acceptance and acquittal with God, was without faith by Christ! James did not teach justification by the works that Paul condemned, or the Bible lies and that's impossible.

The sum of this is: Paul rejected Jewish legalists and their trust in Moses’ law by teaching the historical fact of God’s declaration of Abraham’s righteousness by virtue of his great act of faith (Genesis 15:6). James taught that any man’s faith without works was not nearly enough evidence or proof to claim righteousness, justification, or the hope of future glorification.

 

[Studyman]

Laws Concerning Sexual Immorality
Deut 22:13-29 “If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then hates her


-----This is also Scripture.

Should we follow it and end up in jail?

Didn't God already tell you though, "thou shall not kill"? Do you believe that God now wants you to stone women to death? So then who is it that doesn't understand God's message here? God, or you? Who is confused about God's teaching here? Is God confused, or are you? Does God teach against His Own Laws? Is God incompetent, unjust, unwise, unknowing? Or could it be that it is you that doesn't understand Him, you that are without understanding, you who God has not revealed the meaning of His Words to yet?

For me, whenever I come to these places, I always know it is "ME" that isn't understanding His Teaching. It seems silly for me to say "I understand Him, but if I follow His Teaching I will be thrown in Jail for murder". I don't believe that is the intent of God's Law, that is Spiritual, means for me.

What do these Words mean for us today, in our life? Because, as Paul teaches, they were written for us, for our admonition, "upon whom the ends of the world are come".

1 Cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? "For our sakes", no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. This was written in Duet. 25:4.

Shall I then say that this Law wasn't written for me, because I don't own any oxen? Or that Law wasn't written for me because if I follow God's Law, I will become a murderer? I don't think that is the intent God had when HE inspired Paul to write this for me.

Is it not God's Truth then, that God had these Scriptures you posted, "written for our sake no doubt"? Shall we then not study in humble prayer and Faith, to "Seek" the meaning God intended for us to Glean from them, as Paul did. Or shall we just go to another voice in the garden God placed us in, like Eve did, and let them "divide the word of truth" for us?

If men believe the Jesus, "of the Bible" and are "doing" what HE instructs, in "Seeking God's Righteousness", then will they not "Study" to rightly divide the Word of Truth? Doesn't Paul teach this exact same thing.

Rom. 2:7 "To them" who by patient continuance in well doing "seek for" glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Should we not then Study to find out why God says not to kill, but then appears to teach us to stone people to death? Or shall we choose the "course of this world", like "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, and just consider God as "Not God", and that He made a mistake, or is incompetent and can't be trusted?

Jesus said that unless men drink His Blood, and eats His Flesh, they have no life in them. Are you then a liar if you say you are saved by the Blood of Jesus? Because it is certainly undeniable truth that you didn't eat His Flesh or Drink His Blood. Or is Jesus a lunatic placing burdens on the necks of men that are impossible to follow, like many preachers on this forum imply.

Or shall a man "Seek" to understand His Teaching, that Jesus said is hid from the wise.

Matt. 11: 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

What I advocate is that men turn away from these "other voices" in the garden God placed us in, and Seek to know Him through His Word that became Flesh.

And while you study, I would advise that you Abstain from lusting after other women in your heart, and from partaking of popular images of God after the likeness of men, and from eating swine's flesh or snails, etc., and from coveting what doesn't belong to you. In this way you Glorify God "As God", even though there are things about Him that you don't yet understand.

And in this way you become "learned of the Father", not this world's religious system who "Profess to know God".

In this way, as Paul teaches:

Phil. 3: 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, "be thus minded": and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. 17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

 

[MTMattie]

@synergy

Sorry for the delay on posting this which I promised to do.

James 2:14​

“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?”

The question is rhetorical, which we can and should easily answer ~ Such faith has no profit! It cannot save! From the wrath of God. James, an apostle of Jesus Christ, has no use for those professing faith but living fruitless lives. As the followers of Jesus Christ, we should as dogmatically deny the salvation of those without works.

Please.... I have been asking this question for neigh unto 13 or 14 years.

Please list the works being talked about here.

Are they scrubbing and painint the sanctuary? Or are they offering transportation to those in need of the church?

Are they cooking and cleaning for those in need or merely delivering things to them?

Are they reading and preaching to the shut ins or makeing sure the shutin have laptop access to services?

Are they any of these or all of these.

We often are told faith is a work... but you indicate faith to be fairly irrelevant.... EVEN when we are told
King James Bible
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Yet is it not god who gives us the faith once he selects us? So what is this all about and would this be a work of God not us?

So what are we to do because I really do not know and no one every takes the time to spell it out.

In what sense does faith save as taught by James, one of the pillars of the church in Jerusalem? It only saves by laying hold of eternal life for evidence of coming salvation. Let us be very clear on this point.

God's election of grace is not based on faith, for God chose us in Christ without faith (Psalm 14:1-3; Ephesians 1:3-12).

And... splainin needed on here because I want to know how one would know if they were one of the the ones that Calvin and the WCOF states.... while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death .

You churches and ministers, and priests wont tell you so how do you know?

I guess I should assume I am one of them. NO ONE has suggested otherwise, all they have done is tell me how wrong I am in what I thought were correct beliefs.

Legal justification needs no faith, for God justified freely by Christ (Romans 5:15-19; 8:28-34; Titus 3:4-7).

Regeneration is not based on faith, for the new birth must come first (John 1:13; 3:3,6,8; 5:24). Conversion definitely requires faith, for it is our belief of the gospel of God’s gracious salvation.

Glorification can only be known and trusted to the degree that a child of God brings forth works.

We believe on Christ, not to be justified or regenerated, but to lay hold of coming salvation. James did not write a theoretical lesson for their evangelistic program, but concerning their own conduct!

Actual, legal, literal, or vital salvation is not pursued here, or you end up being saved by works! The point pursued is the "evidence of" eternal life resulting in future salvation ~ faith plus works. The word of God teaches: Faith provides evidence of eternal life "only" when it bears good works (2nd Peter 1:5-11; Ist Thessalonians 1:2-4). It is not that difficult to follow James when we consider ALL scriptures as a cohesive whole.

I wish someone would lay it out in easy to understand terms for us that are lost because the riddles you predestined people talk in counter what is written even the the bible... No wonder you all hang onto the KJV.

 

[Duane]

I dont remember. I did not follow it much other then local news broadcasts.

Marshall had the oddest eyes... who could look into them and believe anything?

Anyone not abiding in Christ. That's why I think the belt of truth is the first piece of the whole armor of God we need to put on.

 

[Studyman]

1 Cor 11:10 That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

Shall I command my wife to always cover her head because Paul believed the sons of God in Gen 6 were angels lusting after women? And I actually believe Paul is right about that, so what shall I do? No one ever told me in Church about this commandment of Paul.

The parents are a symbol of authority over their children, Yes? The husband is the symbol of authority over the wife, Yes? Jesus us the symbol of authority over the husband, Yes? God is the symbol of authority over Jesus, Yes?

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having "his head" covered, dishonoureth "his head".

Who is the "Head" of every man? What does it mean to "Cover his head" then? What does Cover mean? "To cover, to hide, to veil, to conceal".

You must study these things for yourself. I don't want you following me or any man, but the Man God placed as your Head. But I did share some of what is actually written for your consideration.

At least for eating animal flesh for food God made it clear to Peter : Kill and eat.

That isn't what is written. But it is what this world religious system twists to justify their rejection of God's Judgments.

Jesus once said, " And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Because I hear, and believe in God's Word, as Paul teaches, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness", it is easy for me to understand Acts 10, and the vision Peter had. In the vision Peter had, a voice told him;

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

This is simple to understand why, and you followed the Christ "of the Bible's" instruction, and came to the same place I did, and Peter did. Of course Peter didn't "Rise, Kill and Eat what God had told Him was not Food.

So why did Peter have the vision then? I think Peter tells us.

And he said unto them, Ye know how that "it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation"; but God hath shewed me "that I should not call any man" common or unclean.

What does God's Actual Law say about "One of another nation"? What does this mean? Isn't Peter talking about "Non-Jews"? So what does God's Laws say about Non-Jews? Lets look at this together.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger (Non-Jew, Yes?) "sojourn with thee" in your land, ye shall not vex him.

34 But the stranger (Non-Jew) that dwelleth with you "shall be unto you" as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

So please consider, Who cleansed Israel, who in times past were Strangers, unclean, sold unto sin, in Egypt? Was it not God?

And therefore, if a Non-Jew "Joined themselves to the Lord" (IS. 56) partook of the Passover, (Ex. 12:48,49) were they not also "cleansed" by the Same God?

So whose Law said "Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation". Not God's Law, you just read God's Law and it doesn't teach any such thing.

Peter was still clinging to the Pharisees Law that he grew up in. A Law Paul spoke to in Eph. 2:12, "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But who was Cornelius?

"And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

How is he not the perfect example of a Non-Jew dwelling with the Homeborn, "that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants" (Is. 56:1-7)

But Peter was calling men like him "Unclean or Common", like any Pagan. So what did God Teach Peter with this Vision?

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

"but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

"What "God hath cleansed", that call not thou common".

The deceiver would have us believe that this was about the clean and unclean animals that Noah brought into the Ark.

But when a person reads what is actually written, that isn't what the story of Cornelius and Peters vision was about at all.

You can read it for yourself.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is a very good point. We oftentimes neglect the fact that it was the Apostles, inspired by the Holy Spirit, who wrote the Bible, And get this, that was not their only Holy Spirit inspired contribution. Church planting, with all its doctrinal structure, was another massive contribution by them. There are many records of those churches preserved in catacombs across many places in Europe. Italy, France, Greece contains catacombs.

It even goes beyond this synergy.
Why should we believe in the resurrection?
What made me believe was the behavior of the Apostles.
Just after the curcifixion they hid, most probably in Lazarus' house for fear that they would be next.
After that week,,,they boldy asserted the gospel,,,,and they all went to a martyr's death. (except John).
What could have caused this change in their behavior after just a few days?

Could it have been seeing a dead "man" come back to life?

 

[Dizerner]

It's the rude way you treat people. Where is the Love? You just can't stop can you?

The world's conception of "rude" is not love.

Jesus was "rude" to the secular world, because he challenged people and told them hard truths.

There is nothing "rude" about challenging people to examine themselves, this is Scriptural.

I examine myself daily and test whether I am in the faith.

We can obey the Bible here 24/7. It's the rude remarks like above that don't fly.

That's not necessarily true. I've been banned for doing nothing more than preaching Scripture on Christian forums.

We must not be naive.

When people think that merely testing yourself to see if you are in the faith is "rude," they may be a cultural Christian.

“Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.”

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭19‬:‭17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

D....you just did it again !
Why don't you just stick to posting about theology
and leave knowing if a person has received the Holy Spirit,
or is born again, up to God?

That would be nice.

This makes no sense.

You are trying to do theology without the Holy Spirit?

That's where all the problems come from...

 

[synergy]

It even goes beyond this synergy.
Why should we believe in the resurrection?
What made me believe was the behavior of the Apostles.
Just after the curcifixion they hid, most probably in Lazarus' house for fear that they would be next.
After that week,,,they boldy asserted the gospel,,,,and they all went to a martyr's death. (except John).
What could have caused this change in their behavior after just a few days?

Could it have been seeing a dead "man" come back to life?

Yes. They lived lives full of extreme fear/risk/doubts and rapturous highs.

Everyone was seeing how many of their colleagues were being put to death and wondering if this Christianity was even worth it. That's where Paul's encouragement of OT Saints having received their heavenly glorification comes from in Rom 8:30. It has nothing to do with the calvinism heresy

Romans 8:30: "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Some of their stunning highs is their witnessing of the blazing Transfiguration and Paul's indescribable encounter with Heaven itself in one of his Epistles.

 

[Studyman]

Please.... I have been asking this question for neigh unto 13 or 14 years.

Please list the works being talked about here.

Don't listen to any of them MT. What you are describing "IS Babylon".

Rev. 18: 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Trust in the instructions of the Christ "of the Bible". The entire Bible warns about this world's religious system, and has since Eve was deceived by "another voice" in the garden God placed her in, who also professed to know God, and even quoted "some" of His Words.

As it is written:

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I thought maybe these proverbs might help you understand the "wiles of the devil" we face in this life.

Prov. 6:20-26.

Prov. 7: 1 My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee. 2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye. 3 Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart. 4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman: 5 That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth "with her words". 6 For at the window of my house I looked through my casement, 7 And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding, 8 Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house, 9 In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night: 10 And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart. 11 (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house: 12 Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.) 13 So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him, 14 I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows. 15 Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee. 16 I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt. 17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon. 18 Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves. 19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey: 20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed. 21 With her much "fair speech" she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him. 22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks; 23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.

24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words "of my mouth". 25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. 26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. (Think Solomon, Judas,) 27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death. (The Broad Path Jesus spoke of in Matt. 7)

You are not wrong at all in questioning the entire religious system of this world God placed us in.

Good for you.

 

[JLB]

The meaning of this is very simple ~we are NOT free from the Law in every point of view.

Under the law of Moses means under obligation to obey the law of Moses.

Under grace means we are now no longer under obligation to obey the law of Moses but we are now under obligation to obey grace; The Spirit of grace.


Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29


We are now under obligation to obey the Spirit of God.

To be led by the Spirit of God.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14


But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

 

[Red Baker]

@MT

Please.... I have been asking this question for neigh unto 13 or 14 years.

Please list the works being talked about here.


Are they scrubbing and painint the sanctuary? Or are they offering transportation to those in need of the church?

Are they cooking and cleaning for those in need or merely delivering things to them?

Are they reading and preaching to the shut ins or makeing sure the shutin have laptop access to services?

Are they any of these or all of these

Nora, why do not not just listen to James, he will reveal one of many ACTS LOVE we can do to others.

James 2:15​

“If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,”

Nora, we start first with those of our own household, then to our brethren and sisters and then to anyone God brings into our path. In order:

1stTimothy 5:8

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he Hath denied the faith,, and is worse than an infidel."

Galatians 6:10​

“As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.”

 

[Red Baker]

@JLB

Under grace means we are now no longer under obligation to obey the law of Moses but we are now under obligation to obey grace; The Spirit of grace.

I'm going to answer your post, be assure of that; but, before I do, please give me the definition of the law of the Spirit of grace ~ with scriptures and how this law is different from the Moral law given to Moses. I know, but convinced that you do not based on your post. I'm NOT here to put you down in any way whatsoever, but we must faithfully rightly divide the word of Truth.