Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[GodsGrace]

who does not do what the lord says.

who are hearers of the word and not doers

who did Jude say their condemnation was set in stone.

who did peter say were false teachers who were saying we can come to church yet live however we want, because there is no consequence.

who are these people. I see you and @GodsGrace and @synergy defending as saved people who are children of God?

Here's who are the hearers and not the doers:

1. A MEMBER WHO CLEARLY STATED THAT GOD CAN BE BLASPHEMED AND STILL BE SAVED.

2. A MEMBER WHO CLEARLY STATED THAT IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.

3. MEMBERS WHO POST VAGUE STATEMENTS ABOUT NOT HAVING TO DO GOOD WORKS.

4. MEMBERS THAT DO NOT POST THAT JESUS TAUGHT THAT GOOD WORKS ARE NECESSARY,,,AS ALSO THE OTHER WRITERS.

5. ANYONE THAT CLOUDS THE WORDS OF JESUS SO THAT NEW CHRISTIANS MIGHT NOT PROPERLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS EXPECTED OF THEM FROM GOD HIMSELF.


Clarity of what Jesus taught is vitally important for our salvation.
Any obscuring of this goes against what Jesus taught and is dangerous to salvation.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So in conclusion, let us all just listen to God's Word:


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you
an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today,"
lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we have become partakers of Christ
only if we hold the beginning of our confidence
steadfast to the end...

(Heb. 3:12-14)

yes,

lets all twist the word of the author and put faith in our ability to keep ourselves, and our works . and not in Gods ability or Gods work

 

[GodsGrace]

missed by 1

Will try again next time!!

 

[GodsGrace]

yes,

lets all twist the word of the author and put faith in our ability to keep ourselves, and our works . and not in Gods ability or Gods work

How many verses do you need EG??

Gotta go.

 

[Dizerner]

lets all twist the word of the author

Interesting that literally all I did was quote a Scripture word for word.

And you call it "twisting."

Think.

 

[GodsGrace]

Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. (John 1:12; 3:18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12; 13:38-39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 15:1-4 ; 1 John 5:11-13 etc..).

It does not get any narrower than that.

Jesus NEVER said to just trust in Him.

He said to ABIDE IN HIM.....
and
OBEY HIM.

Easy MMD.
All those verses, which you never post, absolutely will not mean what you think they mean.

Because,,,what Jesus taught is very simple....
and not burdensome at all.

 

[Dizerner]

people who thought their were holy because of all their good works

You said they committed lawlessness.

Then you said they trusted in their good works.

Good works are not lawlessness—these people know they were not committing good works at all.

That's the point of the passage—they had no good works.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I'm sorry brother, but if eternal security actually IS false, it is a VERY big deal.

if eternal security is true. it is even a greater deal.

You should consider that more seriously.

it is the most important thing I have ever considered. it is the most important thing anyone will ever consider.

get it wrong has eternal consequences

If it is true—and we are all heeding warnings and exhorting sobriety in vain, because we're all safe anyway—big deal?

I head warning, but I take them in context. and in reliance with the rest of the word.

Oh we put a bit more effort into our walk, an inconsequential cost.

I try to do this every day, when I do not do it. The lord chastens me, like he did Job to get me back on the right track. he has done this multiple times.

If it is false—people may spend all eternity in hell for believing this deadly and Satanic lie.

If its true, then many people will spend an eternity in hell for the deadly and satanic lie that it is false

I don't know where this bug bit you—but you definitely need to take it more seriously than you are.

I do not know where you think you understand me, But I take this very serious. its why I fight so hard. Just like paul did. for those trying to distort the gospel into a works based self righteous gospel. which is no gospel at all

 

[synergy]

the faith refers back to the faith the people continued to say they had
even 5th graders can understand this.

I already acknowledged that. That does not affect my statements.

If you don't understand Greek just say so and we'll move on.

Here are my statements again:

Keep focused on the Greek.

(James 2:14) Τί τὸ ὄφελος, ἀδελφοί μου, ἐὰν πίστιν λέγῃ τις ἔχειν, ἔργα δὲ μὴ ἔχῃ; μὴ δύναται ἡ πίστις σῶσαι αὐτόν;

It's clear that the Greek word ἡ translates to "the" and not "that". Even first year Greek Language students know that.

The Greek word for feminine "that" is αυτή - nowhere found in the Greek verse.

Therefore, ἡ πίστις translates to "the Faith".

Even first year Greek Language students understand this.

 

[synergy]

can the dead cat do anything?

That's exactly my point! You can view the Faith the same way. Can a dead faith do anything? No.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think the fact That Jesus said they practiced unrighteousness. Taken with the words of Joh, that a chilk of God is unable to do this. and whoever does has never seen or known God. shows that this should be taken literally

these were religious people who tried to use their works. to have God allow them into heaven because of these works.

And jesus said depart..

there will be many a people who thought their were holy because of all their good works. who will be told this same thing

There you go.....
You said:
"there will be many a people who thought their were holy because of all their good works. who will be told this same thing"

Just listen to what you wrote EG......
There are persons who did good works....
to whom Jesus will say I NEVER KNEW YOU.

You make it sound like GOOD WORKS ARE USELESS.

Yes. This is what you and others make it sound like.
And it is DANGEROUS.

 

[Studyman]

Something to think about the dietary laws. In those days not eating pork could save your life as they had no refrigeration and pork goes bad fast. I think God was looking out for them not giving them a list of does and don'ts.

Raw pork should never be left unrefrigerated

Raw pork should never be left unrefrigerated for any length of time. Keep it in the refrigerator right up until you're ready to cook it to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria and to reduce the risk of cross-contamination. Additionally, never leave frozen raw pork on the counter to thaw. Raw pork may contain germs that can cause illness or death if not refrigerated and cooked properly.

Trichinosis is a parasitic infection caused by eating pork that has gone bad. It contains the Trichinella spiralis parasite.

It's fascinating isn't it. Pork, that God created as unclean for food, must be handled so carefully to keep it from killing those who eat it. But I can hang a deer, goat, sheep, beef, buffalo, elk and antelope, all created as Food for us by God, outside in 35- 40 degree weather for 10 days, and it's completely safe to make jerky or fried steaks.

There is a truly reason why God commanded men not to abstain from drinking blood, eat swine's flesh or shellfish. After all, HE is God.

 

[Dizerner]

If its true, then many people will spend an eternity in hell for the deadly and satanic lie that it is false

Ah, wow.

I had no idea you thought believing in OSAS is salvific, and the denial of OSAS puts a person in hell.

I've met some people like that but they are a lot more rare—it's an extreme version of it.

So everyone debating you in this thread, me included, is currently going to hell?

Did I misunderstand you here, or did you mistype?

Here you are working hard to save our souls...

Misguided, but a noble intention at least.

 

[Dizerner]

There is a truly reason why God commanded men not to abstain from drinking blood, eat swine's flesh or shellfish. After all, HE is God.

It literally says the shadow was symbolic, not for health reasons.

Paul said every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes the key word is serve.

When God inspires someone to do something they must choose to obey and act or not act on what He said to do.

That’s the principle of faith. Faith must have the corresponding “work” of obedience or faith remains inactive and therefore unable to produce the intended divine result.

but we are talking about the gospel. not serving and loving people

1. Do you believe you are dead in tresspasses and sins?
2. Do you believe you have no hope. that nothing you can do will save you. or rescue you from this death
3. Are you like the children of Israel. bitten by the serpent (satan) and unable to heal yourself. needed saved by God
4. Moses lifted the serpent, those who in faith looked lived, those who did not died. because they not trust God. (dead faith)
5. Do you understand that as Moses lifted that serpent, sop to must the son of man be lifted up (he who knew no sin became sin for us) so that all who in faith look to that cross for healing will be saved.

do you believe the promises of God once you do this (john called it as many as have recieved him in john 1)

that if we ask for th eliving water, or the food which endures forever.

that if we get on our knees like the tax collector not even able to look up\

that we will never die (john 3) we will live forever (john 3) we will recieve this livign water flowing to eternal life (john 4) we will passed from death to live and will not come into judgment (john 5) that we will never hunger and thirst. We will live forever. we will never die, we will not come to judgement, we will not be delivered to Christ, but raised by him, and we will never be lost (john 6) I can go on and on and on

this is what we have faith in for salvation. Do you trust God like Abraham did (gen 15 and romans 4)

or do you trust God like the Pharisees did (all of their works made them right with God)\

the choice is up to you man.

but to try to compare faith in God for salvation, with faith for serving a brother or sister., they are faith in two different things..

 

[Dizerner]

Poll for everyone that believes in eternal security in this thread, simple yes/no is fine:


Do you believe denying eternal security will put a soul in hell?


If you do you should work a lot harder to convince people of it........

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Your adding your own words to the scripture.

I just wrote the words james said

come on man.. open your eyes

There is only one faith. The faith we receive from God when He speaks to us to do something.

Yes, there is only one faith that saves

James spoke of two faith

one which people said they had'
]

and the living faith that saves

The faith we have from God is either alive, (activated) or (dormant) and dead, (inactive.)

A non believer does not have faith given by God.. the gift of faith is a spiritual gift given to Gods children.

God gives us his words, as jesus called them, the words of Life, and as peter tells us the words of eternal life

do we trust these words (faith) or do we not (no faith)

if I do not trust them, I can say I have faith until I am blue in the faith. i am a liar.

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. James 2:14-17


People can indeed have faith from God, and never act on it and thereby it remains dead.

I hate religion


Your speaking religion. your speaking what you have been taught

A non believer does not have faith given from God.. they have the ability to trust God. but they do not have faith..

No such thing as claimed faith. Either God spoke to you and you have faith from Him or He didn’t speak to you and you don’t have faith.

Yet James said they said they had faith. ie, they claimed to have faith. and james called them out.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Here's what MMD said EG:
"NO. You could never do enough good works to maintain your salvation."

I agree!
He made a correct statement.

But you said he agreed. He did not agree with you. and from what you say daily. you do not agree with these words either.

We could never do enough good works to maintain our salvation.
This is right.

then why do you preach it?

No matter how many good works we do,,,we could always do more.
Happily, God knows us and our limits and accepts us as we are,
as long as we're sincere.

I've posted many verses of Jesus teaching that He desires that we do good works...
AND WILL BE JUDGED BY THEM.

yes we will

gold silver precious stones, wood hay and straw. We are told we will receive crowns, and some even positions in heaven.

but as you just admitted above. we will not get to heaven based on what we do or what we do not do. because we can nto work hard enough to earn salvation.

Ditto for Paul.

I have the hope that one day you will both come to accept this teaching of Jesus.

I accept them,

when will you?

 

[synergy]

and hear-in lies the problem

when you think a real faith and a faith that is not real are the same

then you can not understand what true faith is.

Here-in lies another the problem.

(Jas 2:14) My brothers, what profit is it if a man says he has faith and does not have works? Can faith save him?

Who does the saving? The Faith does the saving. You don't understand that it's the Faith that saves?

And how does the Faith save? With good works otherwise it's dead D E A D dead.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus NEVER said to just trust in Him.

So believe in Him (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26) excludes trusting in Him? Trusting in self doesn't count.

He said to ABIDE IN HIM.....
and
OBEY HIM.

To abide in Him is to remain, continue which confirms we have received the Holy Spirit and that God abides in us. (1 John 4:13-15) Believers obey Him out of righteousness (1 John 3:7) and not in order to obtain works righteousness. (Romans 4:4-6)

Easy MMD.
All those verses, which you never post, absolutely will not mean what you think they mean.

How can I think verses that I never post don't mean what I think they mean?

Because,,,what Jesus taught is very simple....
and not burdensome at all.

What Jesus taught is very simple but works-salvationists make it complicated and burdensome.