Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yep,

He doesn't understand the difference between emotionalism, sentimentalism, soulish pity and the true love of God.

People like that will say hell is "evil" because it is too much for one sin.

They tell God what they think is righteousness.

Adam took a bite out of fruit. and we see what happened.. we still suffer from that today.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Why would you trust a god who would condemn you for what someone else has done? I certainly wouldn't.

If God had a plan. and that is the only way to fulfill that plan.

I would trust God.

A baby is born dead. how do we know. They are selfish.. ask any parent who has had a kid how selfish that kid is. does the kid think of anyone but himself?

Now he may not be held liable for those sins. but the fact he does them proves they are in sin.. Their very nature is to serve self.. thats the sin nature

 

[Doug Brents]

If God had a plan. and that is the only way to fulfill that plan.

I would trust God.

A baby is born dead. how do we know. They are selfish.. ask any parent who has had a kid how selfish that kid is. does the kid think of anyone but himself?

Now he may not be held liable for those sins. but the fact he does them proves they are in sin.. Their very nature is to serve self.. thats the sin nature

That is the NATURE of sin, but not sin itself. "...where there is no law, there also is no violation" (Rom 4:15).

 

[civic]

lol

I trust God to do what is right.

They are born under adam

does God save them because they are unable to have faith?

Probably. but they are still BORN UNDER ADAM.

In adam ALL DIE

not just the jews. not just the americans not just the healthy babies.

all means all..

death is a result of the fall- sin led to death. no one is guilty of sin until they break the law. An infant cannot break the law and does not know what Gods law is and neither does a person suffering from mental retardation.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

That is the NATURE of sin, but not sin itself. "...where there is no law, there also is no violation" (Rom 4:15).

again

they were still dead

These people would still go to hall if not given Gods righteousness in faith. sin or no sin

because they were in Adam

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

death is a result of the fall- sin led to death. no one is guilty of sin until they break the law. An infant cannot break the law and does not know what Gods law is and neither does a person suffering from mental retardation.

again, before the law there was no sin

but yet all were dead.

so you have a flaw in your thinking on this subject.

Abraham was saved, because he had faith.

Yet he was never condemned of sin, because there was not yet any law..

 

[Doug Brents]

again

they were still dead

These people would still go to hall if not given Gods righteousness in faith. sin or no sin

because they were in Adam

If that were true, then David wouldn't have said that he (being saved) would go to his son (2 Sam 12:23).

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

again, if God did not intervene his son would go to hell.

His son was born dead.. Only God can answer if the baby is heaven bound or not.

 

[Jim]

Abraham was saved, because he had faith.

Yet he was never condemned of sin, because there was not yet any law..

Nonsense; complete and unadulterated nonsense. There was not the law of Moses, but there was law.

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

 

[Dizerner]

death is a result of the fall- sin led to death. no one is guilty of sin until they break the law. An infant cannot break the law and does not know what Gods law is and neither does a person suffering from mental retardation.

Neither does a pygmy in Africa know what God's holy Law is.

But it doesn't matter anyway.

NONE of us can keep it even if we KNOW it.

Knowing the Law literally does not matter if one actually cannot keep it anyway.

And that's what being sinful actually means.

You are not a GOOD person who slipped up.

You are a BAD person who did EVIL.

 

[civic]

Neither does a pygmy in Africa know what God's holy Law is.

But it doesn't matter anyway.

NONE of us can keep it even if we KNOW it.

Knowing the Law literally does not matter if one actually cannot keep it anyway.

And that's what being sinful actually means.

You are not a GOOD person who slipped up.

You are a BAD person who did EVIL.

I was not born a bad person, I became bad over time

Next fallacy

 

[Jim]

Neither does a pygmy in Africa know what God's holy Law is.

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

But it doesn't matter anyway.

NONE of us can keep it even if we KNOW it.

Knowing the Law literally does not matter if one actually cannot keep it anyway.

And that's what being sinful actually means.

You are not a GOOD person who slipped up.

You are a BAD person who did EVIL.

 

[civic]

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

He is arguing a strawman

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

again, if God did not intervene his son would go to hell.

His son was born dead.. Only God can answer if the baby is heaven bound or not.

to @Doug Brents who laughed at this post

says the man trying to earn his way to heaven

dude. Find the gospel. then you can laugh, until then, your laughs mean nothing

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Nonsense; complete and unadulterated nonsense. There was not the law of Moses, but there was law.

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

lol

Paul spoke in the present tense.

was it not you who tried to use the verse God passed over sins previously committed?

If not. Abraham was one of the one to whom God passed over

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I was not born a bad person, I became bad over time

Next fallacy

you sure?

You did everything your mother did? You did not cry because you did not get your way, or throw a temper tantrum because your mom did not feed you when you thought you needed fed?

You were the perfect baby?

Never met one of those

 

[Dizerner]

I was not born a bad person, I became bad over time

Next fallacy

Incredible self-righteousness.

To claim to not fundamentally need Jesus until you messed your pure and holy self up.

It's crazy.

Anyone who thinks they are inherently good is not going to be convinced by Scripture and logic on some forum.

They have embraced a prideful delusion that only God himself can reach.

And if they call themselves Christian—they have resisted the Holy Spirit many, many times.

I would not want to be that person on Judgment Day.

 

[Dizerner]

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

Right, but you are reading things into this you want it to say.

It's not entirely clear what Paul means.

He could be talking about newborn Christians who bear the fruit of the Spirit without even knowing about the OT.

He could be talking about a God-given conscience that in some ways will conform morally but still falls short.

But whatever he means, he does not mean you are justified through the Law—ever.

Just a quick read through Romans 3 makes that crystal clear.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Incredible self-righteousness.

To claim to not fundamentally need Jesus until you messed your pure and holy self up.

It's crazy.

Anyone who thinks they are inherently good is not going to be convinced by Scripture and logic on some forum.

They have embraced a prideful delusion that only God himself can reach.

And if they call themselves Christian—they have resisted the Holy Spirit many, many times.

I would not want to be that person on Judgment Day.

its a belief system.

I dount this will get someone disqualified for heaven

because no one can ever be qualified for heaven

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Right, but you are reading things into this you want it to say.

It's not entirely clear what Paul means.

He could be talking about newborn Christians who bear the fruit of the Spirit without even knowing about the OT.

He could be talking about a God-given conscience that in some ways will conform morally but still falls short.

But whatever he means, he does not mean you are justified through the Law—ever.

Just a quick read through Romans 3 makes that crystal clear.

He is right in his passage,. that a gentile has written on their hearts. its in our DNA

he is wrong in the fact that where no law is given, you can not charge a person with a crime

the law was given to Moses.

I may know murder is a crime.. but if it is not written in the law books. I can not be charged with murder.