Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Jim]

yep

Since Christ put everyone in adam. He now can put us all in Christ.

Being in Adam simply means being human. Jesus was human, Jesus was in Adam.

welcome to the gospel by the way. water baptism will not save you. if you are getting saved through grace plus works. Well then you are not saved

Not able to read and comprehend simple biblical statements?

Baptism is not a work of law.

 

[Jim]

Agreed but an infant who dies is saved, not condemned

Strictly speaking, the infant does need to be saved since he hasn't sinned. But you are correct that the infant is not condemned.

 

[Jim]

Actually its an amazing statement,

God could have created us all like Adam, and then once we sinned. left us with no hope

But he had a plan..

In Adam (your head) or in Christ (your head)

those who remain in adam will not see heaven. because they failed to become born again

All are in Adam, Even those who have been saved are still in Adam (1 Cor 15:22).

 

[Dizerner]

Isa 7:16 - "For before the boy knows enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be abandoned."

This verse clearly identifies that there is a time in a child's life at which that child has learned enough to know the difference between good and evil, and to choose good. All children will choose evil in some way, which means that all sin. So both you and Civic are right.

It's talking about eating milk curds, dude. Please remember to check the context. This kind of exgesis is not just sloppy, it's absolutely disgraceful, irresponsible and dangerous. Building a whole false doctrine from sloppy-gesis.

Notice you omit the verse before:

Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. (Isa. 7:15 NKJ)

 

[Dizerner]

All are in Adam, Even those who have been saved are still in Adam (1 Cor 15:22).

Technically, the Adam within us is considered crucified with Christ, even though we still struggle with it in this lifetime.

 

[Dizerner]

Rom 5:13 ........, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

This is a misinterpretation of the verse.

Remember what Romans 3 says—the Law condemns every single person, no exceptions.

All flesh is born under the holy Law of God, otherwise we do not need Jesus for salvation.

 

[civic]

Rom 5:13 ........, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

Sin is lawlessness. The very young cannot know and understand law. For them there is no law. That is the same for those to mentally limited to know and understand law. For them as well, there is no law.

Jesus essentially acknowledged that in Matthew 19:14. Where was no sin in those little children.

ditto

 

[civic]

The need to be born again has nothing to do with Adam. It is about the one who has sinned.

can you imagine holding the mentally ill/handicap from birth guilty for adams sin. Those with severe mental retardation.

these original sin advocates are anti biblical and heartless and do not understand Gods love. It reminds me of the pharisees in Jesus day. They think they know the law but their heart if far from the Law Giver Himself.

 

[Doug Brents]

It's talking about eating milk curds, dude. Please remember to check the context. This kind of exgesis is not just sloppy, it's absolutely disgraceful, irresponsible and dangerous. Building a whole false doctrine from sloppy-gesis.

Notice you omit the verse before:

Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. (Isa. 7:15 NKJ)

Yes, the focus of the passage is on the prophecy about the child, and how he will grow. But there are ancillary nuggets we can glean from the passage, such as the fact that he will not be born sinful, nor with the knowledge of sin. He will grow into knowledge of sin, and into the ability to choose good or evil.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

The need to be born again has nothing to do with Adam. It is about the one who has sinned.

Not in scripture

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Agreed but an infant who dies is saved, not condemned

I would maybe agree.

But I also believe they may not be saved. God knows everything including whether or not that infant would have received him if they lived.

can not prove either way

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Being in Adam simply means being human. Jesus was human, Jesus was in Adam.

Yes.

that which is born of flesh is flesh. that which is born of spirit is spirit

You just made my point fo9r me

Not able to read and comprehend simple biblical statements?

Baptism is not a work of law.

Baptims is a work. Period

Not of works lest anyone should boasdt. You want to boast of saving yourself because you got baptized?

good luck with that

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

All are in Adam, Even those who have been saved are still in Adam (1 Cor 15:22).

They must be put in christ first.. once they are in christ (christ as the head) they are no longer in adam (adam as the head)

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

can you imagine holding the mentally ill/handicap from birth guilty for adams sin. Those with severe mental retardation.

these original sin advocates are anti biblical and heartless and do not understand Gods love. It reminds me of the pharisees in Jesus day. They think they know the law but their heart if far from the Law Giver Himself.

lol

I trust God to do what is right.

They are born under adam

does God save them because they are unable to have faith?

Probably. but they are still BORN UNDER ADAM.

In adam ALL DIE

not just the jews. not just the americans not just the healthy babies.

all means all..

 

[Jim]

can you imagine holding the mentally ill/handicap from birth guilty for adams sin. Those with severe mental retardation.

these original sin advocates are anti biblical and heartless and do not understand Gods love. It reminds me of the pharisees in Jesus day. They think they know the law but their heart if far from the Law Giver Himself.

I can't imagine holding anyone guilty for Adam's sin.

The original sin advocates have a dangerously low opinion of God that he would hold one responsible for the sins of anyone else.

 

[Dizerner]

lol

I trust God to do what is right.

They are born under adam

Yep,

He doesn't understand the difference between emotionalism, sentimentalism, soulish pity and the true love of God.

People like that will say hell is "evil" because it is too much for one sin.

They tell God what they think is righteousness.

 

[Dizerner]

Being in Adam simply means being human. Jesus was human, Jesus was in Adam.

This is incorrect.

Adam was uncorrupted until he sinned, therefore he was not in his corrupted self.

There is a spiritual lineage as well as physical.

Jesus bypassed the ancestral head as a symbol of his engrafting a pure strain into the fallen race.

So Jesus had no sin nature inside of him, as we all do.

Then he condemned the sin nature itself on the Cross—the snake that bites us all.

This is the whole meaning and purpose of an "old man" being "crucified" with Christ.

 

[Jim]

This is a misinterpretation of the verse.

The only thing really to be interpreted there is where is there no law. And given Romans 2:14-15 there can only be those too young of to infirm in intellect to know and understand law, any law.

Remember what Romans 3 says—the Law condemns every single person, no exceptions.

Not really. Paul quotes the OT there and the OT refererneces is speaking all of that about the "fool who says there is no God".

All flesh is born under the holy Law of God, otherwise we do not need Jesus for salvation.

Your need for Jesus is because you have not obeyed God's law. The reason for Jesus is not because you are born but because you have sinned.

 

[Jim]

This is incorrect.

Adam was uncorrupted until he sinned, therefore he was not in his corrupted self.

There is a spiritual lineage as well as physical.

Jesus bypassed the ancestral head as a symbol of his engrafting a pure strain into the fallen race.

So Jesus had no sin nature inside of him, as we all do.

Then he condemned the sin nature itself on the Cross—the snake that bites us all.

This is the whole meaning and purpose of an "old man" being "crucified" with Christ.

Are you really so uninformed about such things that you believe the sinful nature comes through the male sperm?

Adam and a sinful nature, otherwise he wouldn't have sinned. We are all born uncorrupted and remain so until such time that we sin.

 

[Jim]

lol

I trust God to do what is right.

Why would you trust a god who would condemn you for what someone else has done? I certainly wouldn't.