Excellent Discussion on OSAS

Where did you answer my question?

In my replies is where I answered you questions. Since You Said the "reason for the question" was "to understand what I believe", I'll answer for the 5th time in a way that even a little child could understand "what I believe".

I believe that the punishment for certain behaviors (According to the God and Father of all) is death, because God clearly teaches as much, even in your own bible. Such behaviors include, but are not limited to, "killing others", "committing Adultery" and "working on God's Holy Sabbath Day". But I find no evidence that "I am" to carry out God's Judgment on others who don't believe in Him. I am tasked with ruling over my own wicked flesh, not your wicked flesh.

If you are not a deceiver, who really wanted to understand what I believe, like you said, you can go to my posts where I answered your questions, and you will find the Scriptures which influence me to believe what I believe. In this way you will be able to "Understand what I believe" and then engage in a good conversation about it, as to why you agree, or disagree with "what I believe" which ever the case may be.

Of course, if you are a liar and a deceiver, who was really never interested in what I believe in the first place, you will just continue on with your scam.

My answer is no. Christians are not put to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

What’s your answer?

You keep changing the question. Here, lets go back to your actual question.

"Do you and your congregation obey this commandment to put to death people "who do any work on the Sabbath"?

My answer is YES. For the man God placed me in charge of, the man of sin inside me, I obey this commandment. My brothers do the same. Paul did and taught the same.

But in contrast, your answer is, "No! in your religion, you don't "put to death" the man of sin inside you. You preserve it.

This is why you can so easily deceive and lie to others regarding your intentions. "Christians" don't do that.

Gal. 5: 24 And they "that are Christ's" have crucified (put to death) the flesh with the affections and lusts.

It's not to late to repent. You can change your ways if you want to.
 
How much belief does it take to be saved? How much fruit in required to prove that the belief is sufficient to be saved?
It's not about how much belief but the object of our belief (which is Jesus Christ) and our belief being firmly rooted and established in Him for salvation. It's also not about how much fruit (all genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful - Matthew 13:23) yet those who produce no fruit at all demonstrate that saving belief in Jesus was never firmly rooted and established from the start.
 
Where did you answer my question?
Is that a yes or no?
My answer is no. Christians are not put to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.
What’s your answer?
its really irritating how some avoid a simple yes or no answer to a question. some avoid it like the plague and give the run around.
 
It's not about how much belief but the object of our belief (which is Jesus Christ) and our belief being firmly rooted and established in Him for salvation. It's also not about how much fruit (all genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful - Matthew 13:23) yet those who produce no fruit at all demonstrate that saving belief in Jesus was never firmly rooted and established from the start.
Jesus spells it out in the parable of the soils. :)
 
It's not about how much belief but the object of our belief (which is Jesus Christ) and our belief being firmly rooted and established in Him for salvation. It's also not about how much fruit (all genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful - Matthew 13:23) yet those who produce no fruit at all demonstrate that saving belief in Jesus was never firmly rooted and established from the start.
Is it belief if there is no fruit? James said no! Thus even those who believe for a while are fruitful for a while.

Matthew13:21 says, that "when tribulation arises, he falls away.". You can't fail away from where you have never been.
 
What was the one thing required of naaman in order to receive his healing , his cleansing of the flesh .
Obediance . all he had to do was obey the command to go and wash ..............
Now its true this is only a cleansing of the flesh
As were the blood sacrfices of lambs bulls goats and etc .
Now again we are asked to OBEY . and the commandemnt now is
BELIEVE YE IN JESUS THE CHRIST . hear ye him . Keep his sayings .
rather odd that many sure seem to love the lies of men that twist HIS sayings and specially in these
VERY LAST Hours on earth . You heard that right , last hours on earth .
Because what these under the so called love spell do not seem to realize is
This lovey do tolerance inclusive sin accepting , UNBELIEF accepting fat lie
has done is made the road to perdtion MUCH MUCH broader
as they now believe its the path to GOD
AND it has promised them a solutoin . world PEACE N SAFETY .
you ever wonder what happens to those who make and love a lie .
Well lets allow the words of paul to speak again . FOR WHEN THEY SHALL SAY PEACE N SAFETY
ITS SUDDEN DESTRUCTION upon them all . YEAH , times for sure running out .
@Tothalordbeallglory
“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Is it belief if there is no fruit? James said no! Thus even those who believe for a while are fruitful for a while.

Matthew13:21 says, that "when tribulation arises, he falls away.". You can't fail away from where you have never been.
You just made my point for me using James. What kind of faith produces no works at all? Not genuine faith that saves. Jesus never said those who believe for a while were fruitful for a while. That is your eisegesis. Only the seed that fell on good ground (which represents a heart that was properly prepared) produced fruit with perseverance.

Those who fall away demonstrate that faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start and they still fell away from their prior profession of faith and were among the brethren. (1 John 2:19) In the end we see that moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration. God only preserves His saints. (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1)
 
Heed not the RCC , heed not zwingli , calvin or scores of others .
Let us HEED CHRIST and stay planted in the biblical doctrine . its that simple . Man has complicated much
and done serve grieveious and blasphmous errors unto these peoples .
IF the early church did it
then we do it . THIS GOES with ALL THE SAYINGS and teachings . Including i suffer not a ....................
cause i see lots of wrong things today .
@Tothalordbeallglory
I am female, and I thoroughly believe everything that is written in the Bible. Including this:

“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭12‬-‭14‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
synergy, as your name is, so are you, a workmonger, seeking to add the works of the flesh, into the salvation that God secured for his elect by Christ's life of obedience, death, and resurrection, based upon His oath and promises of grace to them.
You just slandered the Apostles who also called
themselves Synergists (συνεργοι or συνεργουντος) in Mark 16:20 and 1 Cor 3:9. Well done!

In Mark 16:20, the Greek words του κυριου συνεργουντος translate to Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers and in 1 Cor 3:9 the Greek words συνεργοι θεου translate to God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers.

(Mark 16:20) εκεινοι δε εξελθοντες εκηρυξαν πανταχου του κυριου συνεργουντος (Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) και τον λογον βεβαιουντος δια των επακολουθουντων σημειων σημειων αμην

(1 Cor 3:9) θεου γαρ εσμεν συνεργοι θεου (God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) γεωργιον θεου οικοδομη εστε
Folks like you seek and go after "sound bites" that seemly would favor their position, faithful men of God, like Ezra of old, practice honest biblical hermeneutics.

Nehemiah 8:8​

“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”

We do not read the word of God, like local newspaper ~ we read the scriptures distinctly, and THEN we compare what we are reading with others scriptures, and seeking the true God intended biblical sense of what we are reading, so that we may come unto the biblical meaning of God's testimony to us of any truth we are seeking to understand. This is being honest with God's word, not what you are are practicing in order to support your bias sects teaching of baptismal regeneration, a bold work base system that seeks to rob Christ of his alone glory of securing the salvation for God's elect.
Why don't you practice what you preach concerning proper hermeneutics? You equate water with amniotic fluid, with flesh, and with everything else you fancy all in the name of upholding your erroneous presuppositions.

John 3:3​

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Again, briefly....Nicodemus came to the Lord Jesus, making a very godly confession of who he knew Jesus was, a true prophet sent from God, because as Nicodemus said ~no man could do the miracles that Jesus was doing except God be with him. This godly (yes godly) confession was so much different than his fellow Pharisees who said that Jesus did what he did through the power of the devil! Based on his confession Jesus said to him:

John 3:3​


“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Nicodemus came right back and ask, a child like question:

John 3:4​

“Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?”

The Lord used the words "born again" by the very fact of what Nicodemus said back to him ~"can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" Jesus then said:

John 3:5​

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

Following the discourse's context, it should be clear to any sincere seeker of the truth that the Lord only used the phrase ~"Except a man be born of water" referring to Nicodemus' question, "can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" A strong proof of this is seen here:

John 3:6​


“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

That which is born of flesh (our first birth from our mother's womb) is flesh and will NEED a second, spiritual birth BEFORE one can see, hear, and understand!

"that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” The new birth, creating a spiritual man within the person born again, giving them the mind of Christ, which image is created in God's children.
If your presuppositions are true then you've just gone and denied Adam and Eve of their salvation. They were both not born of a mother so you've effectively thrown Adam & Eve out of the Kingdom of God. Well done! I'll let you announce your "hermeneutics" insights to Adam and Eve.

1st Corinthians 2:14-16​

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

That's what allowed Nicodemus to see and understand, even though he was in a babe state of understanding, much more to yet believe and understand. We all have been, and pray still growing in grace and knowledge.
1 Cor 2:14-16 is being addressed to and is talking about born again believers. You need to prove that Nichodemus was already a born again believer for your presuppositions to be true. Until then.... I hope you find it in your heart to allow Adam and Eve to enter the Kingdom of God.
 
HE sure is sister .
He who beleives JESUS is the SON of GOD
the CHRIST of GOD . as john would write .
Which begs me now to ask us all one tiny question .
WHY come and HOW come so many within even christendom
seem to be beleiving this lie that somehow the muslims and other religoins be worshipping
the same GOD we do . SIE muslim preaches another jesus , GOD has no son they say
and even put their muhammed as greater than and a co worker with jesus .
Yeah , that aint jesus .
IF the jews who claimed to know the law , to know moses , to known abraham
But failed to believe ON JESUS the CHRIST were told ye of your father the devil
DONT expect the gentiles to get a pass either . them religoins ARE FALSE . and we , we must
simply preach CHRIST to all that has breath .
HE who hears amen , he who hears not , shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them .
@Tothalordbeallglory
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭44‬-‭47‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Born of water was not stated as natural birth .
Correct to the one who said this .
Being born of water and spirit
Being born of the Word and Spirit
They who believe THE WORD , that is the gospel ,
are sealed with the SPIRIT of promise .
But folks better make darn sure the jesus they love and follow IS THE JESUS CHRIST of GOD .
cause many follow a sin accepting one , even the sin of unbelief . THAT AINT JESUS folks and IT CANNOT save .
@Tothalordbeallglory
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭44‬-‭47‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
its really irritating how some avoid a simple yes or no answer to a question. some avoid it like the plague and give the run around.

The question was a wicked deception, asked for a stated reason "To understand what I believe" and for the purpose of "having a good discussion", all of which has been proven a lie, and was asked for the purpose of creating an accusation against me, of sinning against God.

Namely, if I don't sacrifice animals for my sins, or murder people who reject God's Sabbaths, then, as he said, "If you don’t then you are not obeying the law of Moses. It’s that simple.

The mainstream preachers of Jesus time used to exact same wicked and deceptive tactic, that they might accuse Him of exactly the same thing.

Here is the mainstream preachers of Jesus Time, the deceivers, question to Jesus.

John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? (Yes or no) 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

Suggesting that somehow, if Jesus didn't murder this woman based on their accusations, HE is sinning against God.

Here is the question asked of me, by a promoter of the mainstream religion of my time.

Now Moses in the Law commanded us, "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it "shall surely be put to death".

"Do you and your congregation obey this commandment to put to death people "who do any work on the Sabbath"?
(Yes or no)

Suggesting that somehow, if I don't murder people who he has accused of breaking God's Sabbaths, I am Sinning against God.

How is it then, when Jesus didn't give them a one word answer, you don't accuse HIM of giving the mainstream preachers of HIS time the run around. But when I don't give a one word answer to the exact same question, with the exact same intent, promoted by the exact same spirit, I am accused or giving the mainstream preachers of my time the run around?

This hypocrisy and deceitful intent, shown over and over and over by you guys, is why I don't go to your church Civic, or JLB's.

You guys should really check yourselves, before it's you talking to Jesus face to face, trying to Justify a hypocritical religion.
 
You just made my point for me using James. What kind of faith produces no works at all? Not genuine faith that saves. Jesus never said those who believe for a while were fruitful for a while. That is your eisegesis. Only the seed that fell on good ground (which represents a heart that was properly prepared) produced fruit with perseverance.

Those who fall away demonstrate that faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start and they still fell away from their prior profession of faith and were among the brethren. (1 John 2:19) In the end we see that moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration. God only preserves His saints. (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1)
Those who fall away fall away from something. No they were firmly rooted and established. But they were rooted and established for a while. They believed for a while. Was that not enough to be saved for a while? The answer is yes, they were saved for a while, then fell away.
 
The question was a wicked deception, asked for a stated reason "To understand what I believe" and for the purpose of "having a good discussion", all of which has been proven a lie, and was asked for the purpose of creating an accusation against me, of sinning against God.

Namely, if I don't sacrifice animals for my sins, or murder people who reject God's Sabbaths, then, as he said, "If you don’t then you are not obeying the law of Moses. It’s that simple.

The mainstream preachers of Jesus time used to exact same wicked and deceptive tactic, that they might accuse Him of exactly the same thing.

Here is the mainstream preachers of Jesus Time, the deceivers, question to Jesus.

John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? (Yes or no) 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

Suggesting that somehow, if Jesus didn't murder this woman based on their accusations, HE is sinning against God.

Here is the question asked of me, by a promoter of the mainstream religion of my time.

Now Moses in the Law commanded us, "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it "shall surely be put to death".

"Do you and your congregation obey this commandment to put to death people "who do any work on the Sabbath"?
(Yes or no)

Suggesting that somehow, if I don't murder people who he has accused of breaking God's Sabbaths, I am Sinning against God.

How is it then, when Jesus didn't give them a one word answer, you don't accuse HIM of giving the mainstream preachers of HIS time the run around. But when I don't give a one word answer to the exact same question, with the exact same intent, promoted by the exact same spirit, I am accused or giving the mainstream preachers of my time the run around?

This hypocrisy and deceitful intent, shown over and over and over by you guys, is why I don't go to your church Civic, or JLB's.

You guys should really check yourselves, before it's you talking to Jesus face to face, trying to Justify a hypocritical religion.
Now you are claiming to be Jesus knowing the intentions of the heart and thoughts of men and their motives.

You do not demonstrate and fruit of the spirit nor love as Paul taught in 1 Cor 13. 100% the carnal mind void of the Spirit of God and His direction.

Yikes
 
Last edited:
Those who fall away fall away from something. No they were firmly rooted and established. But they were rooted and established for a while. They believed for a while. Was that not enough to be saved for a while? The answer is yes, they were saved for a while, then fell away.
More eisegesis on your part. In Luke 8:13, multiple translations say NO ROOT and the AMP Bible says NO FIRMLY GROUNDED ROOT but you say firmly rooted and established. Should I believe you or Scripture? Having a shallow, temporary belief for a while that has no root is not enough to be saved at all or for a while. The fact that it produces no fruit at all demonstrates, there is no spiritual life flowing to it. No firm root is the heart of the problem. So, the answer to your question is no.
 
@Jim
I would note that even the command by Peter to the repentant believers in Acts 2:38 presents repenting and being baptized as sufficient conditions. Again, nothing that Peter says there precludes God from saving repentant believers who do not repent and are not baptized. For that you have to look elsewhere.
Good morning Jim,

You are too wise to make such statements as you have here, unless you are so married the law of your faith, to what you have come to believe, that it caused a wise man making unscriptural statements. Let me explain myself.
God from saving repentant believers who do not repent
Jim, there is not such person, nor has it ever been a person who believes and does not repent! Jim, that's an oxymoron statement spoken by of all people, you ~ that's like calling someone: Mr. Humblebrag. You said:
in Acts 2:38 presents repenting and being baptized as sufficient conditions
Jim, there are "no" conditions in the salvation of sinners from sin and condemnation. You know that I carefully worded my statement to you, since I know there are many conditions in relation to our practical salvation (as far as fellowship, peace, joy, and God's best for us, while living in this body of sin and death) traveling through this world unto our promised land.

Let's look at Acts 2;38 one more time, for any who have never heard us address Acts 2:38.

Acts 2:38​

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Briefly, Peter had just completed his sermon on the day of Pentecost, showing the Jews that Jesus whom they had just taken and kill, was indeed the promised seed to come that would sit on David's Throne. Jesus whom they had killed, had been exalted high above all, and is now Lord and Christ. When some heard of this they were pricked in their hearts and said:

Acts 2:37​

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

Peter being a man of God, and had just spent three and half years daily with Christ and knowing the EVIDENCE of the new birth, said what he did in Acts 2:38:

Acts 2:38​

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

For in Acts 2:38 is to be understood "because of" not in order to obtain. How do we know this? Very simple, as I said, Peter understood the evidence of one born of God, and it was fully demonstrated by the sign of them being PRICKED in their hearts and what they said to Peter. When you compare scriptures with scriptures (the proper way of coming to the knowledge of the truth) then it is clear why Peter said what he did in Acts 2:38. Consider:

Acts 7:54​

“When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.”

In Acts 7, we have most likely the most powerful sermon (beside Matthew 5-7) that is recorded in the Bible, preached by Stephen. The result, just the opposite of Acts 2.

That's why we know how to properly understand Acts 2:38 . Peter, the man of God saw folks whom the Spirit of God had already birth them into the family of God and told them the NEXT step they should take by those who have faith in what they have heard: Repent and be baptized for, or because of your sins are forgiven, proven by your pricked heart and willing to do whatever the Lord commands to be done. For is used many times in thsi sense in God's word.

Mark 1:44​

“And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.” Basically saying the same thing Peter is saying in Acts 2:38.

Enough on this for now.
 
You just slandered the Apostles who also called
themselves Synergists (συνεργοι or συνεργουντος) in Mark 16:20 and 1 Cor 3:9. Well done!

In Mark 16:20, the Greek words του κυριου συνεργουντος translate to Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers and in 1 Cor 3:9 the Greek words συνεργοι θεου translate to God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers.

(Mark 16:20) εκεινοι δε εξελθοντες εκηρυξαν πανταχου του κυριου συνεργουντος (Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) και τον λογον βεβαιουντος δια των επακολουθουντων σημειων σημειων αμην

(1 Cor 3:9) θεου γαρ εσμεν συνεργοι θεου (God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) γεωργιον θεου οικοδομη εστε

Why don't you practice what you preach concerning proper hermeneutics? You equate water with amniotic fluid, with flesh, and with everything else you fancy all in the name of upholding your erroneous presuppositions.

If your presuppositions are true then you've just gone and denied Adam and Eve of their salvation. They were both not born of a mother so you've effectively thrown Adam & Eve out of the Kingdom of God. Well done! I'll let you announce your "hermeneutics" insights to Adam and Eve.

1 Cor 2:14-16 is being addressed to and is talking about born again believers. You need to prove that Nichodemus was already a born again believer for your presuppositions to be true. Until then.... I hope you find it in your heart to allow Adam and Eve to enter the Kingdom of God.
The appeal to 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 to support the doctrine of illumination is so obviously fase that it is almost laughable. All you need to do is observe two people both who claim discernability as promised by those verses present opposing "discerned views". That entire passage in 1 Corinthians 2 is Paul's statement of and defense of his divine authority from the Holy Spirit. The distinction in that passage is not between the lost and the saved; but rather, between the divinely inspired apostles and prophets and the ordinary believer. Chapter 3 further makes that clear. He is addressing the letter to believers and yet tells them that they "are still in the flesh" (3:3). He goes on to say in verse 9, "For we (apostles and prophets0 are God's fellow workers. You (ordinary Christians) are God's field, God's building.
 
@synergy

Romans 6:3-6​

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

Back over fifty years ago, I searched and ponder these very scriptures carefully, because I was confronted with some Church of Christ folks who believed in baptismal regeneration, that at water baptism we are placed IN CHRIST legally, (not the exact terminology they used, but it was the meaning of what they meant) and that's the only way to get INTO CHRIST, so, as a young believer seeking to do that which was commanded by God, I wanted to know if this was so, for that's not the reason I was baptized....in order to legally have my sins washed away and be placed IN Christ.

Here is my understanding of these verses before us, that can be supported with God's overall testimony, which we must do, since the scriptures are indeed one cohesive whole, teaching ONE truth on any particular doctrine that is under consideration throughout the scriptures.

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Without question water baptism is under consideration. What does it mean to be baptized INTO Jesus Christ? Impossible for water baptism to place us IN Christ, since we were IN Christ before the foundation of the world, we were chosen IN Christ, so water baptism cannot in any way legally put one in Christ, impossible, only the false teaching of CoC and other sects believe this is so.

Ephesians 1:4​

“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”

Not only is that true, but we have NEVER been outside of Christ in an eternal sense before God, never. His people are members of his flesh He being the head thereof. We were IN him while he lived in this world, what he did, it was as though WE DID IT, etc. We were IN him when he died on the Cross; we were IN him when he arose form teh dead, etc.

Ephesians 2:5,6​

“Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:”

So, bottom line water baptism does not place us IN Christ legally, impossible.

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" When one is baptized, he/she is baptized INTO the faith and religion/teachings of Jesus Christ.. It can mean no more than that, based upon the scriptures overall teachings.

Water baptism has NO saving power legally, at best, only practically speaking base on a post I made a couple of days ago. See #1932 You said:
"Being buried in water signifies having been buried with Christ—dying to our old sinful nature. Being raised up from water signifies having been raised to new life in Him, born again by the power of His resurrection."

I agree, without dissecting each and every part of you sentence to see exactly what you mean, but yes, the rest of Romans 6 pictures forth this in baptism, along with a few other truths.

Later on Colossians 2.
I'm not a CoC advocate either but your approach to them fails in 2 ways.

First, it is incorrect to say that "we have NEVER been outside of Christ in an eternal sense before God, never." which destabilizes your entire appeal to Eph 1:4. Read Eph 2:11-13 which shows that the Ephesians were in fact NOT in Christ for a period of time. The CoC group would eat you alive with statements of yours that I quoted.

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Second, you can't pigeon hole the Holy Spirit. Scripture depicts Him as the wind who blows wherever He pleases. There might be cases of people believing at the moment they were baptized. Would you deny them the gift of regeneration?
 
@Studyman
This hypocrisy and deceitful intent, shown over and over and over by you guys, is why I don't go to your church Civic, or JLB's.
Studyman I'm not here to put down another person's church, only to expose error, and if particular church has error, so be it. I'm convinced you would not even have fellowship with the apostles if they were here, yet they are in the scriptures, by reading the scriptures, we hear their voices speaking to us every single day.

Acts 13:27​

“For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.”

Paul, James, Peter and Jude, John preach doctrines that you refused to hear. Pretty sure you would not listen to them if they were here.

Jude 1:1​

“Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:”

Do you believe those three great truths in one sentence?
 
Jim, there is not such person, nor has it ever been a person who believes and does not repent!
Demons believe but do not repent. I understand that demons are not "persons". Yet, I think the same can be said of humans also. So then at what point does that believer who repents become one of God's children? I would point out that there are no persons in the in the NT about whom it can be said were saved but who had not been baptized.

Acts 2:38​

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

For in Acts 2:38 is to be understood "because of" not in order to obtain. How do we know this? Very simple, as I said, Peter understood the evidence of one born of God, and it was fully demonstrated by the sign of them being PRICKED in their hearts and what they said to Peter. When you compare scriptures with scriptures (the proper way of coming to the knowledge of the truth) then it is clear why Peter said what he did in Acts 2:38. Consider:
Red, please, please do not display the ignorance of trying to claim that the "for" in Acts 2:38 means "because of". You are not an ignorant man by any means, but that is how you present yourself when you try again and again to make that false claim. And in doing so, you distort the very word of God. You must stop it. It is wrong.

Mark 1:44​

“And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.” Basically saying the same thing Peter is saying in Acts 2:38.
The Greek word translated as "for" in "for thy cleansing" is peri not eis. While the English word "for" can take on the meanings of unto and because of, the Greek word eis cannot. You do yourself such a huge disservice when you refuse to take advantage of the knowledge available to you in this day and age of the Greek language.

Mark 1:44 is saying something with the English word "for" than Luke is saying with the English word "for" in Acts 2:38.
 
Back
Top Bottom