ego eimi.

[FreeInChrist]

This is not a new subject but it warrants being brought to the top again.

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Jesus Said... The first time....
In John 6:16-21, the disciples rowed a boat to Capernaum in the middle of a storm. They were frightened when they saw Jesus walking near them on the water. “But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” (John 6:20 ESV)

This is the first appearance of the phrase ego eimi, I am. Jesus is clearly doing something only God could do: walking on water.

Jesus Said definitively....
in John 8, at the end of a long and contentious debate with the Jews gathered at the temple. The discussion took a dangerous turn, which pivoted on the utterance of ego eimi.

“‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.’ So the Jews said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’

John 8 : 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

= Jesus is God. Period

 

[civic]

This is not a new subject but it warrants being brought to the top again.

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Jesus Said... The first time....
In John 6:16-21, the disciples rowed a boat to Capernaum in the middle of a storm. They were frightened when they saw Jesus walking near them on the water. “But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” (John 6:20 ESV)

This is the first appearance of the phrase ego eimi, I am. Jesus is clearly doing something only God could do: walking on water.

Jesus Said definitively....
in John 8, at the end of a long and contentious debate with the Jews gathered at the temple. The discussion took a dangerous turn, which pivoted on the utterance of ego eimi.

“‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.’ So the Jews said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’

John 8 : 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

= Jesus is God. Period

This verse is the dagger. Unless you believe I Am ( YHWH ) you will die in your sins. John 8:24

 

[FreeInChrist]

This verse is the dagger. Unless you believe I Am ( YHWH ) you will die in your sins. John 8:24

Interlinear backs you up.

The Greek phrase "ego eimi" can be translated as "I am" or "I am He," depending on the context. However, in many instances, especially in the Gospel of John, it is often interpreted with theological significance, suggesting a deeper meaning related to identity and existence. Ai

"I Am He" vs. "I Am"​

• "I Am He": This translation can be appropriate in contexts where the speaker is identifying themselves in response to a question, such as "Who are you?" In these cases, "I am he" conveys a sense of identification.
• "I Am": In John 8:58, where Jesus states "Before Abraham was, I am," the translation "I am" is preferred. This usage is often linked to the divine name in Exodus 3:14, where God says, "I AM who I AM."

The phrase is sometimes capitalized as "I AM" in translations to emphasize its connection to the divine
While "ego eimi" can be translated as "I am he" in some contexts, it is more commonly and theologically significant when translated as "I am," especially in references to Jesus' identity and divinity.

John 8:24 Interlinear Sorry, it copied here correctly but then went vertical when I hit post.

ἀποθανεῖσθε(apothaneisthe) — 3 Occurrences


John 8:21V-FIM-2P
GRK:ἁμαρτίᾳ ὑμῶν ἀποθανεῖσθε ὅπουἐγὼ
NAS:and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin;
KJV:me, and shall die in your
INT:sin of you you will die where I


John 8:24V-FIM-2P
GRK:ὑμῖν ὅτι ἀποθανεῖσθε ἐν ταῖς
NAS:I said to you that you will die in your sins;
KJV:unto you, that ye shall die in your
INT:to you that you will die in the


John 8:24V-FIM-2P
GRK:ἐγώ εἰμι ἀποθανεῖσθε ἐν ταῖς
NAS:that I am [He], you will die in your sins.
KJV:I am [he], ye shall die in your
INT:I am [he] you will die in the


InterlinearGreek • InterlinearHebrew • Strong'sNumbers • Englishman'sGreek Concordance • Englishman'sHebrew Concordance • ParallelTexts

​

 

[Neil Spargo]

This is not a new subject but it warrants being brought to the top again.

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Jesus Said... The first time....
In John 6:16-21, the disciples rowed a boat to Capernaum in the middle of a storm. They were frightened when they saw Jesus walking near them on the water. “But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” (John 6:20 ESV)

This is the first appearance of the phrase ego eimi, I am. Jesus is clearly doing something only God could do: walking on water.

Jesus Said definitively....
in John 8, at the end of a long and contentious debate with the Jews gathered at the temple. The discussion took a dangerous turn, which pivoted on the utterance of ego eimi.

“‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.’ So the Jews said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’

John 8 : 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

= Jesus is God. Period

Dynamite!

 

[amazing grace]

This is not a new subject but it warrants being brought to the top again.

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

What is his name forever?
God also said to Moses, "Say this to the people of Israel: 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. . . .

I believe LORD aka Yahweh is his name. It is the name by which he is known and called in the majority of verses in the OT. In fact, I can't find anywhere where 'I AM' was used as his name or anyone called him by 'I AM'. I can't even see where Moses followed his instruction to say 'I AM WHO I AM has sent me to you' . . . .

Jesus Said... The first time....
In John 6:16-21, the disciples rowed a boat to Capernaum in the middle of a storm. They were frightened when they saw Jesus walking near them on the water. “But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” (John 6:20 ESV)

This is the first appearance of the phrase ego eimi, I am. Jesus is clearly doing something only God could do: walking on water.

The first appearance of the phrase ego eimi, I am was in John 4:25,26
The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things." Jesus said to her, I (ego) who speak to you am (eimi) [he]." "he" was added. So, in the first usage Jesus was identifying himself as the Messiah. . . . I am the Messiah who is speaking to you.

Jesus Said definitively....
in John 8, at the end of a long and contentious debate with the Jews gathered at the temple. The discussion took a dangerous turn, which pivoted on the utterance of ego eimi.

“‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.’ So the Jews said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’

John 8 : 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

= Jesus is God. Period

Unless you believe I am he you will die in your sins . . . apparently they didn't think he was claiming to be God because they asked "WHO ARE YOU"? Jesus said he is who he has been saying from the beginning - he is the Son of God, the Messiah. So unless they believed he was the Messiah they would die in their sins.

The question would be was Jesus literally before Abraham, i.e. as in preexistence or was Jesus before Abraham in the foreknowledge and plan of God. Well, we have the very first prophecy of Jesus in Gen. 3:15 - the offspring (seed) of the woman.
We have the promise made to Abraham at Genesis 17:6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful and I will make nations of you and kings will come from you.. . and we see the fulfillment of that prophecy in Gal. 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.
So . . . Jesus was before Abraham in the foreknowledge and plan of God.

Jesus is and has been making the claim to be the Messiah all along - they just don't believe him. Just read all the accounts of where the Pharisees, chief priest do not believe him (John 5:38,47; 6:36; 8:45,46; 10:25,26,38)

 

[Runningman]

This is not a new subject but it warrants being brought to the top again.

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Jesus Said... The first time....
In John 6:16-21, the disciples rowed a boat to Capernaum in the middle of a storm. They were frightened when they saw Jesus walking near them on the water. “But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” (John 6:20 ESV)

This is the first appearance of the phrase ego eimi, I am. Jesus is clearly doing something only God could do: walking on water.

Jesus Said definitively....
in John 8, at the end of a long and contentious debate with the Jews gathered at the temple. The discussion took a dangerous turn, which pivoted on the utterance of ego eimi.

“‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.’ So the Jews said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’

John 8 : 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

= Jesus is God. Period

We should understand Jesus by what he explicitly stated. We know that Jesus denied equality with God in John 14:28 saying, "The Father is greater than I." So we can reasonably conclude that Jesus wasn't suggesting that he is equal with God elsewhere.

The full context of John 8, leading up to the "I am" statement in John 8:58, is not in line with Jesus making a claim to deity. Jesus stated in John 8:28, "the Father has taught me." So here we have an example of Jesus not being omniscient about what God knows because Jesus needed to be "taught" by the Father. Jesus had to learn, he had to be taught something he didn't already know.

Next, Jesus explicitly identified himself as a man in John 8:40 "you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God." Similar to what Jesus had previously stated about being taught by the Father, Jesus said he is telling them the truth he heard from God. Here Jesus equates God with being the Father. Any time Jesus mentions God, he is speaking of the Father only in every context, but never a trinity. Jesus defines God as the Father, that's why we do too.

So John 8:58 is not a claim to deity. We know based on the context that Jesus demonstrated himself to be a man who received teachings from God, so it would be pretty unusual for Jesus to make a claim to deity, abruptly, without precedent, in contradiction to his denials of being deity just before this.

If it helps, you can look at Exodus 3:14,15 where the I AM is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. These are titles never given to Jesus in the whole Bible. In Acts 3:13, Jesus is entirely distinct from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So Jesus was not claiming to be God.

Thus, you have actually provided a very strong and convincing argument that Jesus isn't God. If I was on the fence before, you have just locked me into being a stronger Unitarian.

 

[Runningman]

This verse is the dagger. Unless you believe I Am ( YHWH ) you will die in your sins. John 8:24

Which is not what the Bible says anywhere. It's funny how you imagined a dagger, yet if there is any wound it would be the one you just inflicted on yourself by bearing false witness of Scripture. That's how it always is with you guys.

Please tell me, who is YHWH and who is the servant in the verses below?

Isaiah 54
17No weapon formed against you shall prosper,
and you will refute every tongue that accuses you.
This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD,
and their vindication is from Me,”

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.

 

[FreeInChrist]

What is his name forever?
God also said to Moses, "Say this to the people of Israel: 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. . . .

I believe LORD aka Yahweh is his name. It is the name by which he is known and called in the majority of verses in the OT. In fact, I can't find anywhere where 'I AM' was used as his name or anyone called him by 'I AM'. I can't even see where Moses followed his instruction to say 'I AM WHO I AM has sent me to you' . . . .

The first appearance of the phrase ego eimi, I am was in John 4:25,26
The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things." Jesus said to her, I (ego) who speak to you am (eimi) [he]." "he" was added. So, in the first usage Jesus was identifying himself as the Messiah. . . . I am the Messiah who is speaking to you.

Unless you believe I am he you will die in your sins . . . apparently they didn't think he was claiming to be God because they asked "WHO ARE YOU"? Jesus said he is who he has been saying from the beginning - he is the Son of God, the Messiah. So unless they believed he was the Messiah they would die in their sins.

The question would be was Jesus literally before Abraham, i.e. as in preexistence or was Jesus before Abraham in the foreknowledge and plan of God. Well, we have the very first prophecy of Jesus in Gen. 3:15 - the offspring (seed) of the woman.
We have the promise made to Abraham at Genesis 17:6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful and I will make nations of you and kings will come from you.. . and we see the fulfillment of that prophecy in Gal. 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.
So . . . Jesus was before Abraham in the foreknowledge and plan of God.

Jesus is and has been making the claim to be the Messiah all along - they just don't believe him. Just read all the accounts of where the Pharisees, chief priest do not believe him (John 5:38,47; 6:36; 8:45,46; 10:25,26,38)

Its alright....

You dont have to believe he is the Messiah. No one is twisting your arm.

 

[FreeInChrist]

We should understand Jesus by what he explicitly stated. We know that Jesus denied equality with God in John 14:28 saying, "The Father is greater than I." So we can reasonably conclude that Jesus wasn't suggesting that he is equal with God elsewhere.

The full context of John 8, leading up to the "I am" statement in John 8:58, is not in line with Jesus making a claim to deity. Jesus stated in John 8:28, "the Father has taught me." So here we have an example of Jesus not being omniscient about what God knows because Jesus needed to be "taught" by the Father. Jesus had to learn, he had to be taught something he didn't already know.

Next, Jesus explicitly identified himself as a man in John 8:40 "you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God." Similar to what Jesus had previously stated about being taught by the Father, Jesus said he is telling them the truth he heard from God. Here Jesus equates God with being the Father. Any time Jesus mentions God, he is speaking of the Father only in every context, but never a trinity. Jesus defines God as the Father, that's why we do too.

So John 8:58 is not a claim to deity. We know based on the context that Jesus demonstrated himself to be a man who received teachings from God, so it would be pretty unusual for Jesus to make a claim to deity, abruptly, without precedent, in contradiction to his denials of being deity just before this.

If it helps, you can look at Exodus 3:14,15 where the I AM is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. These are titles never given to Jesus in the whole Bible. In Acts 3:13, Jesus is entirely distinct from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So Jesus was not claiming to be God.

Thus, you have actually provided a very strong and convincing argument that Jesus isn't God. If I was on the fence before, you have just locked me into being a stronger Unitarian.

Curiosity begs a question.

Did you daddy ever send you to do something as his representative?

 

[amazing grace]

Its alright....

You dont have to believe he is the Messiah. No one is twisting your arm.

Thanks . . . . but I do believe he is the Messiah, the anointed and it was the only true God who anointed him ---- therefore he cannot be the only true God.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Thanks . . . . but I do believe he is the Messiah, the anointed and it was the only true God who anointed him ---- therefore he cannot be the only true God.

That the New Testament is full of references to the divinity of Christ is difficult to deny. From the four canonical Gospels through the book of Acts and the Pauline Epistles, Jesus is not only seen as the Messiah (or Christ) but also equated with God Himself. The apostle Paul refers to the divinity of Christ when he calls Jesus our "great God and Savior" (Titus 2:13) and even says that Jesus existed in the "form of God" prior to His incarnation (Philippians 2:5-8). God the Father says regarding Jesus, "Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever" (Hebrews 1:8). Jesus is directly referred to as the Creator Himself (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17). Other biblical passages teach Christ’s deity (Revelation 1:7; 2:8; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 5:4).

While these direct citations are sufficient to establish that the Bible claims Jesus is divine, a more indirect approach may prove to be more powerful. Jesus repeatedly placed Himself in the place of Yahweh by assuming the Father’s divine prerogatives. He was often doing and saying things that only God has a right to do and say. Jesus also referred to Himself in ways that hinted at His deity. Some of these instances provide us with the strongest proof of Jesus’ divine self-understanding.

In Mark 14, Jesus stands accused at His trial before the High Priest. “Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven” (Mark 14:61-62). Here, Jesus is referring to the Old Testament book of Daniel where the prophet Daniel states, “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed" (Daniel 7:13-14).

In this reference to Daniel’s vision, Jesus is identifying Himself as the Son of Man, a person who was given “dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and men of every language might serve Him.” The Son of Man has a dominion that is everlasting and will not pass away. One immediately wonders what kind of person has a dominion that is everlasting. What kind of a person is given a kingdom and will have all men serve Him? The High Priest, who immediately recognized Jesus’ claim to divinity, tore his robe and declared Jesus guilty of blasphemy.

Jesus’ use of the title "Son of Man" has surprisingly strong apologetic value. A skeptic of Christ’s deity cannot easily dismiss this particular self-designation of Jesus. That Christ referred to Himself in this manner enjoys multiple attestations, as it is found in all of the Gospel sources. The phrase "Son of Man" is used of Jesus only a few times outside of the Gospels themselves (Acts 7:56; Revelation 1:13; 14:14). Given its scarce usage by the early apostolic church, it is unlikely that this title would have been read back into the lips of Jesus if, in fact, He had not used this particular self-designation. And yet, if it is established that Jesus really did use this title of Himself, it becomes apparent that Jesus considered Himself to have everlasting power and a unique authority beyond that of a mere human being.

Sometimes, it was Jesus’ actions that revealed His identity. Jesus’ healing of the paralytic in Mark 2 was done to demonstrate His authority and ability to forgive sins (Mark 2:3-12). In the minds of His Jewish audience, such abilities were reserved for God alone. Jesus also receives worship several times in the Gospels (Matthew 2:11; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; 20:28). Never did Jesus reject such adoration. Rather, He regarded their worship as well placed. Elsewhere, Jesus taught that the Son of Man will ultimately judge humanity (Matthew 25:31-46) and taught that our eternal destinies depend on our response to Him (Mark 8:34-38). Such behavior is further indication of Jesus’ divine self-understanding.

Jesus also stated that His forthcoming resurrection from the dead would vindicate the very special claims that He made for Himself (Matthew 12:38-40). After having been crucified and buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, Jesus did, in fact, rise from the dead, establishing His claims to deity.

The evidence for this miraculous event is very powerful. Numerous contemporary sources report Jesus’ post-crucifixion appearances to both individuals and groups under various circumstances (1 Corinthians 15:3-7; Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:36-43; John 20:26-30, 21:1-14; Acts 1:3-6). Many of these witnesses were willing to die for this belief, and several of them did! Clement of Rome and the Jewish historian Josephus provide us with first-century reports of several of their martyrdoms. All of the theories used to explain away the evidence for the resurrection (such as the Hallucination Theory) have failed to explain all of the known data. The resurrection of Jesus is an established fact of history, and this is the strongest evidence for Jesus’ divinity.got?

 

[amazing grace]

This is not a new subject but it warrants being brought to the top again.

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

= Jesus is God. Period

Well, I can't believe I find myself doing this but I do need to correct myself and give an apology to FreeInChrist.

After reading several articles (and even my own old notes) I see that LORD is the name used biblically for God because ancient Jewish tradition considered the personal name YHWH to sacred to pronounce. They feared they might violate the commandment not to "take the name of the Lord your God in vain". "I AM THAT I AM" (I will be who I will be); "I AM" (I exist) . . . is the first time God reveals his personal name, often represented by the tetragrammaton YHWH (Yahweh).

Sadly for Trinitarians though ---- the name does indicate that God is stating that he is a singular being. He is what he is, there is no one equal to him.

BUT I still don't believe that when Jesus is saying 'I am' anywhere in the NT that he is identifying himself as God.

 

[Runningman]

Curiosity begs a question.

Did you daddy ever send you to do something as his representative?

Yes, but I am not my own daddy and neither is Jesus.

 

[amazing grace]

That the New Testament is full of references to the divinity of Christ is difficult to deny. From the four canonical Gospels through the book of Acts and the Pauline Epistles, Jesus is not only seen as the Messiah (or Christ) but also equated with God Himself. The apostle Paul refers to the divinity of Christ when he calls Jesus our "great God and Savior" (Titus 2:13) and even says that Jesus existed in the "form of God" prior to His incarnation (Philippians 2:5-8). God the Father says regarding Jesus, "Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever" (Hebrews 1:8). Jesus is directly referred to as the Creator Himself (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17). Other biblical passages teach Christ’s deity (Revelation 1:7; 2:8; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 5:4).

When reading your theology INTO the scriptures you would see references to the divinity of Christ.

• Titus 2:13 the appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
• Philippians 2:5-8 Scholars disagree upon what the word form means some say it is equivalent to image of God some say it refers to the 'outward appearance' of God . . . as to image of God - we are all made in the image of God and then the outward appearance would be how Jesus presents himself relying on the authority and prerogatives given to him by God or emptying himself of these prerogatives and remains a humble servant.
• Yes, God did say that at Hebrews 1:8 and it is also said of a human king at Ps. 45:6,7 . . . in each instance the human being has a God 'YOUR God' by whom they have been anointed.
• John 1:3 is about the Word . . . Colossians 1:16,17 says specifically what was created and it wasn't the heavens and the earth, stars, sun, moon, plants, animals, etc. . . . it was these things that are listed as being created thrones, dominions, rulers and authorities and I believe it is in reference to the church for Paul continues with Jesus' position in the church and his position as being the firstborn from the dead - his preeminence.
• I don't see any relevance to Christ's deity at Rev. 1:7.
• Rev. 2:8 is definitely about Christ being called the first and the last who DIED AND CAME TO LIFE . . . can't be a reference to deity, God because God is immortal and cannot die so therefore cannot come back to life.
• 1 Cor. 10:4 - the rock that followed them - 'followed' = came after ---- that Rock was Christ . . .
• 1 Peter 5:4 how does being the Chief Shepherd teach Christ's deity.

While these direct citations are sufficient to establish that the Bible claims Jesus is divine, a more indirect approach may prove to be more powerful. Jesus repeatedly placed Himself in the place of Yahweh by assuming the Father’s divine prerogatives. He was often doing and saying things that only God has a right to do and say. Jesus also referred to Himself in ways that hinted at His deity. Some of these instances provide us with the strongest proof of Jesus’ divine self-understanding.

In Mark 14, Jesus stands accused at His trial before the High Priest. “Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven” (Mark 14:61-62). Here, Jesus is referring to the Old Testament book of Daniel where the prophet Daniel states, “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed" (Daniel 7:13-14).

In this reference to Daniel’s vision, Jesus is identifying Himself as the Son of Man, a person who was given “dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and men of every language might serve Him.” The Son of Man has a dominion that is everlasting and will not pass away. One immediately wonders what kind of person has a dominion that is everlasting. What kind of a person is given a kingdom and will have all men serve Him? The High Priest, who immediately recognized Jesus’ claim to divinity, tore his robe and declared Jesus guilty of blasphemy.

The High Priest rent his robe and declared Jesus guilty of blasphemy not because he claimed to be God because Jesus did not claim to be God but the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God. The High Priest DID NOT BELIEVE him to be the Christ, the Son of the Blessed . . . . The denial by the Pharisees, the religious leaders, the High Priest is seen throughout the gospel of John.
The same denial is seen today!!!!! He is not the Son of God - he is God . . .

Jesus’ use of the title "Son of Man" has surprisingly strong apologetic value. A skeptic of Christ’s deity cannot easily dismiss this particular self-designation of Jesus. That Christ referred to Himself in this manner enjoys multiple attestations, as it is found in all of the Gospel sources. The phrase "Son of Man" is used of Jesus only a few times outside of the Gospels themselves (Acts 7:56; Revelation 1:13; 14:14). Given its scarce usage by the early apostolic church, it is unlikely that this title would have been read back into the lips of Jesus if, in fact, He had not used this particular self-designation. And yet, if it is established that Jesus really did use this title of Himself, it becomes apparent that Jesus considered Himself to have everlasting power and a unique authority beyond that of a mere human being.

APOLOGETIC TITLE ----- APOLOGETIC for being a human being????

Sometimes, it was Jesus’ actions that revealed His identity. Jesus’ healing of the paralytic in Mark 2 was done to demonstrate His authority and ability to forgive sins (Mark 2:3-12). In the minds of His Jewish audience, such abilities were reserved for God alone. Jesus also receives worship several times in the Gospels (Matthew 2:11; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; 20:28). Never did Jesus reject such adoration. Rather, He regarded their worship as well placed. Elsewhere, Jesus taught that the Son of Man will ultimately judge humanity (Matthew 25:31-46) and taught that our eternal destinies depend on our response to Him (Mark 8:34-38). Such behavior is further indication of Jesus’ divine self-understanding.

His authority came from God his Father.
Our eternal destinies depend on our response to him because that is how God set up HIS plan of salvation to come from his Son -- For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Jesus also stated that His forthcoming resurrection from the dead would vindicate the very special claims that He made for Himself (Matthew 12:38-40). After having been crucified and buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, Jesus did, in fact, rise from the dead, establishing His claims to deity.

The evidence for this miraculous event is very powerful. Numerous contemporary sources report Jesus’ post-crucifixion appearances to both individuals and groups under various circumstances (1 Corinthians 15:3-7; Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:36-43; John 20:26-30, 21:1-14; Acts 1:3-6). Many of these witnesses were willing to die for this belief, and several of them did! Clement of Rome and the Jewish historian Josephus provide us with first-century reports of several of their martyrdoms. All of the theories used to explain away the evidence for the resurrection (such as the Hallucination Theory) have failed to explain all of the known data. The resurrection of Jesus is an established fact of history, and this is the strongest evidence for Jesus’ divinity.got?

Matt. 12:38-40 Jesus told them that no sign would be given EXCEPT the sign of the prophet Jonah - yes, he would be crucified, buried and resurrected after 3 days and 3 nights . . . Jesus was indeed resurrected - God raised him from the dead --- but I don't think that established his claim to deity. And yes, he appeared to many after his resurrection and before his ascension.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes, but I am not my own daddy and neither is Jesus.

You are 100% right. Jesus IS NOT HIS OWN DAD.

We never said that He was.

 

[Quintus5]

I think I read from someone here (I think) that Jesus proved He was the Lawgiver, and there by God by the Sermon on the Mount:

Matthew 5

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time … but I say unto you.”

No prophet or teacher in Israel ever dared to amend or deepen the Law in his own name. Prophets say "Thus saith the Lord".
Isa 42:21 “The LORD is well pleased for His righteousness’ sake; He will magnify the law, and make it honourable" And He did. the Hebrew interlinear shows that LORD to be YHWH. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/42-21.htm

 

[Runningman]

You are 100% right. Jesus IS NOT HIS OWN DAD.

We never said that He was.

Then he isn't God. God is also my Daddy so I am not God. Same with Jesus. Being a child of God in the Bible is not a claim to deity. Jesus being the Son of God is a powerful argument against him being God.

You seem to be kinda agreeing.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Then he isn't God. God is also my Daddy so I am not God. Same with Jesus. Being a child of God in the Bible is not a claim to deity. Jesus being the Son of God is a powerful argument against him being God.

You seem to be kinda agreeing.

I am not agreeing.

First God is a title. Find my thread and read it.

As I have explained elsewhere... lets say your churchhas 3 ministers.

And each of these men are called Pastor as is the custom of you church.... Even those with doctorates in mine are called Pastor)

So you might have Pastor Rick, Pastor Tim and Pastor Steve,

Lets say Pastor Rick is the Pulpit Supply Minister.... Pastor Tim is the Youth Minister and Pastor Steve is Pastor Ricks assistant...

All 3 fully ordained men serving in one church with differing duties and job assignments.

None of these 3 is in anyway either one of the others. But all 3 are Ordained, and all 3 are Pastors and all three are charged with the care of the congregants and youth of the church. Pastor Rick has more of a head in the system but anyone of the other two could step in if something happens to Pastor Rick.... from sermons, to baptisms, to weddings et al.

Same with God. We have the Father, I AM as God, and we have the Son Jesus as God, and we hae the Holy Spirit as God.

While the Pastors are covered under the roof of the church, I think of these three being covered under the Godhead.

Three different , none is the other two to keep the three individuals mentioned. Each has their duties and jobs... but the three
primarily are to take care of humanity.

Same with God

 

[Runningman]

I am not agreeing.

First God is a title. Find my thread and read it.

As I have explained elsewhere... lets say your churchhas 3 ministers.

And each of these men are called Pastor as is the custom of you church.... Even those with doctorates in mine are called Pastor)

So you might have Pastor Rick, Pastor Tim and Pastor Steve,

Lets say Pastor Rick is the Pulpit Supply Minister.... Pastor Tim is the Youth Minister and Pastor Steve is Pastor Ricks assistant...

All 3 fully ordained men serving in one church with differing duties and job assignments.

None of these 3 is in anyway either one of the others. But all 3 are Ordained, and all 3 are Pastors and all three are charged with the care of the congregants and youth of the church. Pastor Rick has more of a head in the system but anyone of the other two could step in if something happens to Pastor Rick.... from sermons, to baptisms, to weddings et al.

Same with God. We have the Father, I AM as God, and we have the Son Jesus as God, and we hae the Holy Spirit as God.

While the Pastors are covered under the roof of the church, I think of these three being covered under the Godhead.

Three different , none is the other two to keep the three individuals mentioned. Each has their duties and jobs... but the three
primarily are to take care of humanity.

Same with God

Ok, so you think of God as like being a status, or office, something that others can also be as well. What do you define being God as? I mean, what are Jesus' qualifiers for being God in the same way the Father is in your beliefs?

 

[Jim]

This is not a new subject but it warrants being brought to the top again.

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Jesus Said... The first time....
In John 6:16-21, the disciples rowed a boat to Capernaum in the middle of a storm. They were frightened when they saw Jesus walking near them on the water. “But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” (John 6:20 ESV)

This is the first appearance of the phrase ego eimi, I am. Jesus is clearly doing something only God could do: walking on water.

Jesus Said definitively....
in John 8, at the end of a long and contentious debate with the Jews gathered at the temple. The discussion took a dangerous turn, which pivoted on the utterance of ego eimi.

“‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.’ So the Jews said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’

John 8 : 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

= Jesus is God. Period

This of course raises the age-old debate concerning the Trinity. Most of the responses have the doctrine of the Trinity of the responder as a basis.