ego eimi.

[FreeInChrist]

Ok, so you think of God as like being a status, or office, something that others can also be as well. What do you define being God as? I mean, what are Jesus' qualifiers for being God in the same way the Father is in your beliefs?

You mean aside from the biblical proofs that He is?

Jesus, the Son, is not a lesser being than God the Father, but is of the same essence. The Spirit prophesied that the Savior coming into the world would be God himself (see Is. 7:14; Matt. 1:23).

Is 7:14 “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 "“BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

I wont use the obvious of

Raising people from the dead or

Walking on water or healing the sick..................................................

All the things He did while alive because those things surly can be accomplished by even you????? RIGHT? RIGHT?

Your word for the day.... Homoousion

What it is.... theological term meaning "of the same substance," used to describe the relationship between God the Father and God the Son, as affirmed in the Nicene Creed.

You can find much on this and variations in Wiki as well as

Oxford English Dictionary , Webster, Britannica, plus more.

You wont believe... that is alright. I DO, For my know, knows.

 

[FreeInChrist]

This of course raises the age-old debate concerning the Trinity. Most of the responses have the doctrine of the Trinity of the responder as a basis.

True.

But I have gone a different direction on things at the moment because the anti-trins cannot accept the idea of there being 3, but
they need to accept "God" the Son.

And there is total proof of that in the bible if we just start with the 2 verses I posted above to Runningman reply #21

Is 7:14 “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 "“BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Until they can see or at least think about the truth mudding up the waters will not help

Granted... just mu opinion , but is my current one

 

[Jim]

True.

But I have gone a different direction on things at the moment because the anti-trins cannot accept the idea of there being 3, but
they need to accept "God" the Son.

And there is total proof of that in the bible if we just start with the 2 verses I posted above to Runningman reply #21

Is 7:14 “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 "“BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Until they can see or at least think about the truth mudding up the waters will not help

Granted... just mu opinion , but is my current one

I like Thomas' response reported by John following Jesus; resurrection from the grave:

John 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"

Jesus accepted Thomas' response, meaning Jesus accepted being called God. If you believe Jesus and believe in Him, then you must, like Jesus, accept the reference to His being God.

 

[Darby]

I like Thomas' response reported by John following Jesus; resurrection from the grave:

John 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"

Jesus accepted Thomas' response, meaning Jesus accepted being called God. If you believe Jesus and believe in Him, then you must, like Jesus, accept the reference to His being God.

Truth is not constrained by what we find easy to comprehend; God determines what is true.

And the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. John 16:13

From Scripture we have learned that Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh; God incarnate, and that he is both divine and human. We have seen that the Son is distinct from the Father, and although he is God, he has willingly taken a subordinate role to the Father with respect to God’s dealings with his creation and the salvation of humankind. In this chapter we need to explore further how it can be that Jesus is both God and man, divine and human, Son of God and Son of Man and what the implications of this are.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I like Thomas' response reported by John following Jesus; resurrection from the grave:

John 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"

Jesus accepted Thomas' response, meaning Jesus accepted being called God. If you believe Jesus and believe in Him, then you must, like Jesus, accept the reference to His being God.

 

[Runningman]

We have seen that the Son is distinct from the Father, and although he is God, he has willingly taken a subordinate role to the Father with respect to God’s dealings with his creation and the salvation of humankind.

While it is Scripturally true that Jesus is not co-equal with God, what you said would not be considered an orthodox Trinitarian statement in the present day. Actually, this kind of statement is what some of the early proto-Trintiarians, who were more like Binitarians, in the 2nd century, were saying. I am glad you know that Jesus is subordinate to God, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. Jesus being subordinate to God means that he isn't himself God.

 

[Runningman]

I like Thomas' response reported by John following Jesus; resurrection from the grave:

John 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"

Jesus accepted Thomas' response, meaning Jesus accepted being called God. If you believe Jesus and believe in Him, then you must, like Jesus, accept the reference to His being God.

Actually, Jesus rejected Thomas' response. Read the next verse.

Notice how to get the blessing, Thomas would have had to be been someone who believed yet having not seen. However, Thomas believed because he saw that Jesus had been resurrected. Therefore, Jesus rebuked Thomas' unbelief.

John 20
29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

John 20
25But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.”

 

[Runningman]

You mean aside from the biblical proofs that He is?

Jesus, the Son, is not a lesser being than God the Father, but is of the same essence. The Spirit prophesied that the Savior coming into the world would be God himself (see Is. 7:14; Matt. 1:23).

Is 7:14 “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 "“BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

I wont use the obvious of

Raising people from the dead or

Walking on water or healing the sick..................................................

All the things He did while alive because those things surly can be accomplished by even you?????View attachment 2547 RIGHT? RIGHT?

Your word for the day.... Homoousion

What it is.... theological term meaning "of the same substance," used to describe the relationship between God the Father and God the Son, as affirmed in the Nicene Creed.

You can find much on this and variations in Wiki as well as

Oxford English Dictionary , Webster, Britannica, plus more.

You wont believe... that is alright. I DO, For my know, knows.

Paul raised someone from the dead too. Acts 20:7-12

The disciples healed sick people. Acts 5:15-16

Peter walked on water too. Matthew 14:29

I hope you didn't think this was going to be easy. I ask again, this time get it right. What did Jesus do that means he is God?

 

[Darby]

While it is Scripturally true that Jesus is not co-equal with God, what you said would not be considered an orthodox Trinitarian statement in the present day. Actually, this kind of statement is what some of the early proto-Trintiarians, who were more like Binitarians, in the 2nd century, were saying. I am glad you know that Jesus is subordinate to God, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. Jesus being subordinate to God means that he isn't himself God.

God being Three in One makes Jesus a part of the GodHead, God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit.

The Bible verse most directly stating Jesus is part of the Godhead is Colossians 2:9, which says, "For in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily". Other supporting verses include John 10:30 ("I and the Father are one"), Hebrews 1:3 ("He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature"), and John 1:14 ("And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us").

 

[FreeInChrist]

Jesus being subordinate to God means that he isn't himself God.

Why?

 

[FreeInChrist]

Paul raised someone from the dead too. Acts 20:7-12

The disciples healed sick people. Acts 5:15-16

Peter walked on water too. Matthew 14:29

I hope you didn't think this was going to be easy. I ask again, this time get it right. What did Jesus do that means he is God?

Not easy at all...

Every now and then I have a moment of insanity and I forget you are incapable of understanding the written word.

Is 7:14 “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel

Matt 1:23 " “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”
1 OT and 1 NT and you believe neither = you do not believe God's inerrant word.
You have absolutely no business to quote or deny scripture.
Tell me @Runningman are you AKA Wrangler? Your talking points are identical.
In any event....I still maintain.

Πατέρα μου Θεέ θα θριαμβεύσει ὑμεῖς ἐκ τοῦ πατρὸς τοῦ διαβόλου

πάντοτε

διότι ο πατέρας σας δεν ακολουθεί την αλήθεια.

Toodles......................

 

[amazing grace]

God being Three in One makes Jesus a part of the GodHead, God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit.

The Bible verse most directly stating Jesus is part of the Godhead is Colossians 2:9, which says, "For in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily". Other supporting verses include John 10:30 ("I and the Father are one"), Hebrews 1:3 ("He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature"), and John 1:14 ("And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us").

Col. 2. If “all the fullness” of what God was, being in Christ, made him God, then the very next verse would make us God also, because it says that in Christ, we have that same fullness.

John 10. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me.. I give them eternal life and they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one. . . . They are one in purpose and mission - the care and keeping of the sheep.

Hebrews 1. Yes, he reflects the glory of God and he is the exact imprint of his nature (Greek for 'exact imprint' - charakter means the exact expression (image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e. facsimile) ----- He reflected his Father to the fullest extent.

Yep, I agree the word became flesh.

 

[Runningman]

God being Three in One makes Jesus a part of the GodHead, God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit.

The Bible verse most directly stating Jesus is part of the Godhead is Colossians 2:9, which says, "For in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily". Other supporting verses include John 10:30 ("I and the Father are one"), Hebrews 1:3 ("He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature"), and John 1:14 ("And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us").

Well, It doesn't say directly state any such thing in Colossians 2:9. Have you actually read it? Let's do a side-by-side comparison of what you say Colossians 2:9 says and what Colossians 2:9 says as printed in the Bible:

Your claim: Jesus is part of the Godhead.
Scripture: in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily

This is not dissimilar of what Paul said of believers in Ephesians:

Ephesians 3
19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Compare that to Paul wrote in Colossians:

Colossians 2
9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.

So Paul applied the same thing that Jesus has to believers in Ephesians 3:19, it doesn't say "Jesus is part of the Godhead" anymore than it says believers are part of the Godhead.

Compare John 10:30 to John 17:21-23 where oneness with God is something believers have as well.

Hebrews 1:3 doesn't make a case for Jesus being God. The entire chapter of Hebrews 1 is a Unitarian prooftext.

John 1:14 is about Jesus being created.

 

[Runningman]

Not easy at all...

Every now and then I have a moment of insanity and I forget you are incapable of understanding the written word.

Is 7:14 “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel

Matt 1:23 " “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”
1 OT and 1 NT and you believe neither = you do not believe God's inerrant word.
You have absolutely no business to quote or deny scripture.
Tell me @Runningman are you AKA Wrangler? Your talking points are identical.
In any event....I still maintain.

Πατέρα μου Θεέ θα θριαμβεύσει ὑμεῖς ἐκ τοῦ πατρὸς τοῦ διαβόλου

πάντοτε

διότι ο πατέρας σας δεν ακολουθεί την αλήθεια.

Toodles......................

But look at the very next verse after Isaiah 7:14

Are you saying God needed time to know enough to reject evil and choose good? That's a problem. Immanuel is fully human and didn't inherently know the difference between good and evil, not God incaranate.

Isaiah 7
15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.

You have only demonstrated that the definition of the name Immanuel is "God with us" but have not demonstrated that Jesus is God with us. The God who was with them is the same God who was with Jesus.

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

 

[Darby]

Well, It doesn't say directly state any such thing in Colossians 2:9. Have you actually read it? Let's do a side-by-side comparison of what you say Colossians 2:9 says and what Colossians 2:9 says as printed in the Bible:

Your claim: Jesus is part of the Godhead.
Scripture: in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily

This is not dissimilar of what Paul said of believers in Ephesians:

Ephesians 3
19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Compare that to Paul wrote in Colossians:

Colossians 2
9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.

So Paul applied the same thing that Jesus has to believers in Ephesians 3:19, it doesn't say "Jesus is part of the Godhead" anymore than it says believers are part of the Godhead.

Compare John 10:30 to John 17:21-23 where oneness with God is something believers have as well.

Hebrews 1:3 doesn't make a case for Jesus being God. The entire chapter of Hebrews 1 is a Unitarian prooftext.

John 1:14 is about Jesus being created.

Colossians 2:9 emphasizes that all the fullness of the Deity dwells in Christ. This means that everything that defines God—His power, wisdom, holiness, and divine nature—completely resides in Jesus, affirming His full divinity.

The terms miaphysitism and dyophysitism are used to explain the nature of His full divinity and how Jesus should be thought of as both God and man.

Dyophysitism is the position that Jesus is one person of one substance but with two different natures: one divine and one human. This term is from the Greek duo for “two” and physis for “nature.”

Miaphysitism is the position that Jesus is one person of one substance with only one, fully integrated nature that is both fully human and fully divine. This term is from the Greek mia for “one” and physis for “nature.”

The real difference comes down to whether Christ has two natures or one. The issue is not whether Christ is fully God and fully human, but in what way He is both. The Bible never explicitly answers these questions, but Bible-believing Christians try to find the position that best accounts for all of the biblical evidence. Also, each of these positions has implications that need to be addressed. It helps to understand miaphysitism and dyophysitism in contrast to each other and in relation to some other views.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Col. 2. If “all the fullness” of what God was, being in Christ, made him God, then the very next verse would make us God also, because it says that in Christ, we have that same fullness.

It depends on which biblical translation you read.

I especially like NLT For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.

and Berean Standard For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.

Not to forget

KJV says Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

NKJV says For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Amplified says For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].

American Standard for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

English Revised for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

Webers For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Literal Standard because in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,

Youngs Literal because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

Douay Rheims For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally;

Lamsa For in him is embodied all the fulness of the Godhead.

And 3 or 4 more.

You really should see them all befor making your mind up like this

Colossians 2:9 - Alive in Christ

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.

biblehub.com

John 10. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me.. I give them eternal life and they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one. . . . They are one in purpose and mission - the care and keeping of the sheep.

Hebrews 1. Yes, he reflects the glory of God and he is the exact imprint of his nature (Greek for 'exact imprint' - charakter means the exact expression (image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e. facsimile) ----- He reflected his Father to the fullest extent.

Yep, I agree the word became flesh.

 

[FreeInChrist]

But look at the very next verse after Isaiah 7:14

He sure was a quick study when he ably rebuffed Satan those 40 days,...

Are you saying God needed time to know enough to reject evil and choose good? That's a problem. Immanuel is fully human and didn't inherently know the difference between good and evil, not God incaranate.

Isaiah 7
15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.

You have only demonstrated that the definition of the name Immanuel is "God with us" but have not demonstrated that Jesus is God with us. The God who was with them is the same God who was with Jesus.

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

 

[Jim]

I hope you didn't think this was going to be easy. I ask again, this time get it right. What did Jesus do that means he is God?

It is not what He did has a man empowered by the Holy Spirit; rather, it is who and what he was. Or perhaps more to the point it is what He wasn't. He wasn't created. He existed eternally with the Father (John 1:1; 17:5).

 

[Runningman]

Why?

God is the Supreme Being, yet Jesus is sent by, dependent on, and subject to that Supreme Being. Therefore he cannot be that Supreme Being.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Colossians 2:9 emphasizes that all the fullness of the Deity dwells in Christ. This means that everything that defines God—His power, wisdom, holiness, and divine nature—completely resides in Jesus, affirming His full divinity.

The terms miaphysitism and dyophysitism are used to explain the nature of His full divinity and how Jesus should be thought of as both God and man.

Dyophysitism is the position that Jesus is one person of one substance but with two different natures: one divine and one human. This term is from the Greek duo for “two” and physis for “nature.”

Miaphysitism is the position that Jesus is one person of one substance with only one, fully integrated nature that is both fully human and fully divine. This term is from the Greek mia for “one” and physis for “nature.”

The real difference comes down to whether Christ has two natures or one. The issue is not whether Christ is fully God and fully human, but in what way He is both. The Bible never explicitly answers these questions, but Bible-believing Christians try to find the position that best accounts for all of the biblical evidence. Also, each of these positions has implications that need to be addressed. It helps to understand miaphysitism and dyophysitism in contrast to each other and in relation to some other views.

Thank you @Darby

I believe scripture has suggested which one but I'll let @Runningman have at it before venturing further.