Does Jesus put himself, above his Father?
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
TibiasDad
Well-known member
So what’s your question here? This doesn’t say Jesus puts himself over the Father. Jesus’s role is subjected to the Father, but this doesn’t make him “less than” the Father in nature of being.
Doug
civic
Well-known member
Exactly as scripture says He is equal with the Father
Frank Russell
Well-known member
MatthewG
Active member
Well put Doug. That helps me alot.
The Father sent the Son,
God had spoken the Word that was sent
The Word that was sent, was the soul of God (in a way, (expressed image)tagging along with the soul of Christ) born in flesh named Yeshua.
The Spirit of God is the Spirit of God, and the spirit of Christ is the spirit of Christ.
MatthewG
Active member
Hi Frank,
Not knowing you, I dont know nothing at all. Its good to know God is the creator. When I think about Jesus, I think about how he is the very Word of God, made flesh. He lived a selfless life that none of us could ever hold to, and he lived a life which he had done on behalf of the world, with a warning to Israel to escape and be saved from the wrath of God was to believe on Him, because God was going to destroy them for their wickedness and idolatry. When the Lord Yeshua was to return after his death, burial and resurrection. To come and take his bride. I believe these things in my heart and there is something that because of his overcoming he was allowed to was to sit on the very throne of God and sit with God being all in all, in being called the Lord God Almighty.
“The one who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.”
Revelation 3:12 NASB2020
Revelation 3:12 The one who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new | New American Standard Bible - N
The one who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new
bible.com
“The one who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne.”
Revelation 3:21 NASB2020
“For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is clear that this excludes the Father who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.”
1 Corinthians 15:27-28 NASB2020
1 Corinthians 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
bible.com
“Out from the throne *came flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God; and before the throne there was something like a sea of glass, like crystal; and in the center and around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind. The first living creature was like a lion, the second creature like a calf, the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle. And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.” And when the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and they will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, “Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.””
Revelation 4:5-11 NASB2020
Revelation 4:5-11 Out from the throne *came flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God; and before the throne | New American Standard Bible -
Out from the throne *came flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God; and before the throne
bible.com
Last edited:
Handaan
Active member
Yep... we definitely need a Bible humor section.
and the Word was God, Not God had spoken the word that was sent. and the next sentence "in a way" Is way out there. The spirit tagged along with the soul of Christ and to make it believable let's just call him Yeshua, Just to give it that official ring.
Handaan
Active member
Azriel
Well-known member
Right out of the gate, the Gospel of John presents the doctrine of the deity of Christ.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning” (John 1:1–2). These words and the concepts they express form the foundation for John’s entire gospel, which was written to prove that Jesus Christ is God incarnate. John 1:1–2
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning” (John 1:1–2). These words and the concepts they express form the foundation for John’s entire gospel, which was written to prove that Jesus Christ is God incarnate. John 1:1–2
MatthewG
Active member
By all means sir. I do not like that type of music, sorry. Did not click on it. I dont really like christian culture music all that well.
MatthewG
Active member
Hey that is a very great point, Azriel. Thank you for sharing that. Man… my apologizes for my commuications you are a very well learned student of the bible like many other people here.
Azriel
Well-known member
I apologies also. Let's just do that agree to disagree thing. You know what I mean. You see things your way I see them my way. I think we both realize we're not going to change each other's theology. And that's okay.
By the way what type of Music do you like? Secular... Christian, Chanting. That reminds me back in the 60s I knew people that were into chanting. Old hippies that didn't want anything to do with authority. Then there were the Hare Krishna.
MatthewG
Active member
For me, I tend to like something with a good beat, doesnt matter sometimes if it has cussing in it or other type of lyrics, I have made some of my own songs just for fun to rap and just sing, but the best singing one can do is for the LORD, amen, and enjoy elevator type music. But the sound that is golden to me is to have silence sometimes you know? How about yourself?
Azriel
Well-known member
That's interesting I also wrote a rap song called "me and Jesus always roll together" It actually has an evangelism street preaching call to Jesus message in it. But I grew up in the sixties so I like rock. My older sister turned me on to Doo-wop from the '50s. So I like cream, Jimi Hendrix, The doors, Crosby Stills Nash & Young. Janis Joplin. But since the early 80s Christian music... any kind of Christian music has been my favorite.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Yes
If by spoken, you mean created, then No! The Word is eternal in existence, with the Father from eternity past.
The soul is the indication of an individual person. “The human soul is central to the personhood of a human being. As George MacDonald said, “You don’t have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.” (https://www.gotquestions.org/human-soul.html)
If, by “the soul of God”, you mean the soul of the Father, that is modalism and it is wrong. The person of the Father and that of the Son are independent souls. They are both identical in substance, but distinct in individuality.
I’m not sure what this even means, so I can’t really comment further.
Doug
MatthewG
Active member
Yes absolutely, doug, the essence of the soul is the mind/will/emotions. If im not correct, let me know, however psychology does a study of the mind. That is our soul, within us that controls this body that is given from Yahava, (i believe) when it is our first breathe is taken when a baby comes outside of a womans womb.
“Then the Yahava God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living person.”
Genesis 2:7 NASB2020
“Then the Yahava God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living person.”
Genesis 2:7 NASB2020
Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living person. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now
Then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living person.
bible.com
TibiasDad
Well-known member
But does the soul equate to a distinct individual? Is the Son a distinct person different from the Father?
Doug
MatthewG
Active member
Great question.
Would this bible scripture help?
“The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer the punishment for the father’s guilt, nor will a father suffer the punishment for the son’s guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”
Ezekiel 18:20 NASB2020
Ezekiel 18:20 The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer the punishment for the father’s guilt, nor will a father suffer the punishment for the son’s guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon | New American Standard Bible - NAS
The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer the punishment for the father’s guilt, nor will a father suffer the punishment for the son’s guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon
bible.com
All I know is there is God, Gods Word, and Gods Spirit in the beginning. God sent his Word, Jesus has his own nature which was not prior; however he still had the soul of himself along with the soul which is of God (by the spirit of God,) and that held Jesus together as the God with us in the flesh. Jesus died on behaf of the world on his own accord trusting in the promises of his Father and what he learned and taught him through obedience in to becoming an overcomer of sin for all.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Not answering my question, Matthew, is the person of the Word/Son distinct from that of the Father? Are they two different people, and have always been such?
Doug
