Does Jesus put himself, above his Father?

[MatthewG]

Not answering my question, Matthew, is the person of the Word/Son distinct from that of the Father? Are they two different people, and have always been such?

Doug

Yes. God, Gods spoken Word. (These are not people)

Jesus was not the Spirit. He was of the Flesh, he had his own personality, he laughed, he cried, he was angry, he expressed the image of his father (the soul reflection of God.) He called out to his Father, when in the flesh, My God, My God why have you forsaken me.

Does this help? I dont know how to answer it.

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes. God, Gods spoken Word. (These are not people)

Jesus was not the Spirit. He was of the Flesh, he had his own personality, he laughed, he cried, he was angry, he expressed the image of his father (the soul reflection of God.) He called out to his Father, when in the flesh, My God, My God why have you forsaken me.

Does this help? I dont know how to answer it.

Let me try again, Matthew, for I seem to not have communicated clearly:

Yes or no, are the Word and the Father both God in equal measure and of the same essence of being? And are they, at the same time and circumstance, separate, individual personal beings? Yes or no?

Doug

 

[MatthewG]

I done explained. I don’t feel obligated to answer these questions again, doug.

 

[MatthewG]

Let me try again, Matthew, for I seem to not have communicated clearly:

Yes or no, are the Word and the Father both God in equal measure and of the same essence of being? And are they, at the same time and circumstance, separate, individual personal beings? Yes or no?

Doug

Paul says here,

Philippians 2:6

New International Version

​

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Imitating Christ’s Humility​

2 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

​

What Yeshua the expressed image of the Father?

Hebrews 1:3 who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might -- through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest,

Therefore was Yeshua a representation of the impression of His Fathers subsistence through the flesh having become obedient? Yes.



And are they, at the same time and circumstance, separate, individual personal beings? Yes or no?

There is the Father, there is the Son, being helped by the Spirit of God. In the beginning there is God, God's Word, and the Spirit of God overing over the waters. All I know is that God is spirit. Not a person, in the sense of the flesh. Jesus was the Word of God in Flesh. Named Immanuel meaning God with us. What do you think about these thing cause they are all expressed in the Gospels.

It's like hearing Gods voice in the sky, or a voice from the sky when Jesus was being baptized and everyone around heard it. Was God able to be in heaven, and in and through Christ at the same time?

 

[101G]

1 Corinthians 15:27​

​

New American Standard Bible​

​

​

27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is clear that [a]this excludes the Father who put all things in subjection to Him.

the Lord Jesus is the FATHER in the ECHAD as the ordinal "FIRST". and as for "be subject", see the post

• #90

101G

 

[MatthewG]

the Lord Jesus is the FATHER in the ECHAD as the ordinal "FIRST". and as for "be subject", see the post

• #90

101G

That doesn't make sense to me.

The bible clearly says once all of the enemies are placed beneath the feet of Jesus, he would move on from the right hand side of God and sit with his Father on his throne. Jesus never once placed himself over his Father. He prayed to his Father, and gave respect to Yahava, the God of Israel who sent him

Once all things were subjected that did not mean the son, who gives everything back to the Father, 101g. Sorry, I do not see the need to go back t post 90.

 

[101G]

The bible clearly says once all of the enemies are placed beneath the feet of Jesus, he would move on from the right hand side of God and sit with his Father on his throne

ERROR, not Sit with as next to the Father but within, as in the "be" Subject" which means "WITHIN. listen Scriptures, Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

only one throne or authority and we in, in, in, him, God the Son, and him, God the Son, in, in,him, God the Father. one must understand the ECHAD.

101G.

 

[civic]

Paul says here,

Philippians 2:6​

​

New International Version​

​

​

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Imitating Christ’s Humility​

2 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

​

What Yeshua the expressed image of the Father?

Hebrews 1:3 who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might -- through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest,

Therefore was Yeshua a representation of the impression of His Fathers subsistence through the flesh having become obedient? Yes.



And are they, at the same time and circumstance, separate, individual personal beings? Yes or no?

There is the Father, there is the Son, being helped by the Spirit of God. In the beginning there is God, God's Word, and the Spirit of God overing over the waters. All I know is that God is spirit. Not a person, in the sense of the flesh. Jesus was the Word of God in Flesh. Named Immanuel meaning God with us. What do you think about these thing cause they are all expressed in the Gospels.

It's like hearing Gods voice in the sky, or a voice from the sky when Jesus was being baptized and everyone around heard it. Was God able to be in heaven, and in and through Christ at the same time?

The Father is not the Son. They are distinct yet One in nature- Both sharing the exact same Divine nature and attributes as God.

 

[101G]

The Father is not the Son. They are distinct yet One in nature- Both sharing the exact same Divine nature and attributes as God.

the Father is the Son in Flesh, and that's Glorified Flesh. listen, 2 Corinthians 6:18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." is this the one whom you calls the Father? ...... (smile).

101G.

 

[MatthewG]

ERROR, not Sit with as next to the Father but within, as in the "be" Subject" which means "WITHIN. listen Scriptures, Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

only one throne or authority and we in, in, in, him, God the Son, and him, God the Son, in, in,him, God the Father. one must understand the ECHAD.

101G.

The scripture still stands on what is stated. Jesus Christ never asserts himself above his Father, who is Jesus's father? It's Yahava, the God of Israel.

I do not submit to the trinity stance, you can if you want to, I do not care much for it personally, and you have to go ahead and understand that I do not accept it personally, 101g.

 

[MatthewG]

The Father is not the Son. They are distinct yet One in nature- Both sharing the exact same Divine nature and attributes as God.

Jesus has a dual nature, it's of the spirit, and of the flesh. Jesus and His Father are one. One what? Or One how? How are they One together? To me they are one in sustenance, and goal, by and through this duality in the Lord Yeshua. No where in scripture does Jesus ever assert himself over his Father. Ever.

 

[MatthewG]

When all things are placed beneath the feet of Jesus, he goes on from the right hand of God to go sit in the Fathers throne. Where God becomes all in all, and they become the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, however Jesus still doesn't assert anything authority over the Father.

 

[101G]

The scripture still stands on what is stated. Jesus Christ never asserts himself above his Father, who is Jesus's father? I

his Father is him. on earth in flesh, he is Son. when he is in Heaven in the ECHAD, and say my Father, he is saying MY "Spirit" in Heaven, and in heaven saying my Son on earth, he is saying my "Body" on earth. again UNDERSTAND the ECHAD of Ordinal First/Father, and Ordinal Last/Son.

101G.

 

[101G]

When all things are placed beneath the feet of Jesus, he goes on from the right hand of God to go sit in the Fathers throne. Where God becomes all in all, and they become the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, however Jesus still doesn't assert anything authority over the Father.

this is the reason for "BE", "BE", subject, meaning "WITHIN". hello? for the right hand means "WITHIN" power.

101G.

 

[MatthewG]

his Father is him. on earth in flesh, he is Son. when he is in Heaven in the ECHAD, and say my Father, he is saying MY "Spirit" in Heaven, and in heaven saying my Son on earth, he is saying my "Body" on earth. again UNDERSTAND the ECHAD of Ordinal First/Father, and Ordinal Last/Son.

101G.

I disagree with, thank you.

this is the reason for "BE", "BE", subject, meaning "WITHIN". hello? for the right hand means "WITHIN" power.

101G.

Hello, eventually Jesus moves away from that point.

 

[TibiasDad]

The scripture still stands on what is stated. Jesus Christ never asserts himself above his Father, who is Jesus's father? It's Yahava, the God of Israel.

I do not submit to the trinity stance, you can if you want to, I do not care much for it personally, and you have to go ahead and understand that I do not accept it personally, 101g.

This explains why you cannot answer my questions, even though, I only asked for yes or no answers. I see now the answer is no!


Doug

 

[MatthewG]

This explains why you cannot answer my questions, even though, I only asked for yes or no answers. I see now the answer is no!


Doug

I just dont believe in the trinity stuff so if that is your answer okay.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes or no, are the Word and the Father both God in equal measure and of the same essence of being?

No. Not at all.

God the Father is a Being. His thoughts are an attribute of his being. Not at all equal or the same essence.

Trinitiarians cannot acknowledge that Jesus is NOT God's words. He has a title that is NOT 'the word.' It is a horrible attempt as substitution to rationalize a horribly self-contradictory doctrine.

Scripture tells us there is ONLY God the Father. This should mean something but the man-is-god thesis overpowers the actual words of God.

 

[Wrangler]

This explains why you cannot answer my questions, even though, I only asked for yes or no answers.

Sad ego on display, hoping to claim some kind of 'victory' over your brother in Christ. Why doesn't it bother you that there is no trinity* verse in Scripture?


* To avoid the inevitable Appeal to Strawman, there simply is no verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. If there were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture by those who claim one’s salvation depends on believing it. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once!

 

[TibiasDad]

Sad ego on display, hoping to claim some kind of 'victory' over your brother in Christ. Why doesn't it bother you that there is no trinity* verse in Scripture?


* To avoid the inevitable Appeal to Strawman, there simply is no verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. If there were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture by those who claim one’s salvation depends on believing it. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once!

We never claimed there is “a verse” that explains it all, but there are 66 books of verses that tell us that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all are called God, and are described as possessing the qualities that only God can possess.

I am not disrespecting @MatthewG, I am just acknowledging that I now understand his various answers to me better, and why he didn’t or couldn’t answer my various queries, including simple yes and no questions.

I have not exalted myself in any way nor do I think anyone to be less than myself. All the scriptures he quoted tell me that Jesus is God in human form, but he wouldn’t admit to that fact, no matter how hard I tried to get him to tell me the answers to my questions.


Doug