Do we have any Catholics here?
- Thread starter Clifford
- Start date
civic
Well-known member
If I was not a Protestant I could easily be an EO.
Frank Russell
Well-known member
Online catholics tend to like to exist in environments where they can leverage rules against people who say things they don't like .. so .. we might get some, but they'll be the weird ones who don't care about that.
I tend to find agreement with them on a number of issues accidentally, but tend to butt heads over main issues like mary worship and such.
Diserner
Well-known member
Frank Russell
Well-known member
I guess it's a human issue in general.Similar to Calvinists I've met.
Matthias
Well-known member
My wife’s side of the family are Catholic. I’m not into debating but several of my wife’s relatives are priests, deacons and nuns. Imagine, if you will, a Jewish monotheist discussing theology on a full stomach after enjoying a sumptuous Thanksgiving meal. They’re good folks, theologically operating on a different plane.
I wouldn’t be able to persuade any of them to join an Internet discussion forum but many’s the time I’ve taken something from an Internet discussion forum and rolled around in “the mud, the blood and the beer” with them. (Pro tip: it’s the nuns that you have to watch out for.)
I love Catholics and would like to see them here. On the whole, they’re pretty knowledgeable on early church history. (Which is an area of particular interest to me.)
Brakelite
Active member
I grew up as Catholic. Does that count?
I have engaged Catholics on another forum, who boast that their only reason for being there is to counter the lies told about them, to refute the wrong teachings of Protestantism regarding Catholicism. I have found that of the 5 or so Catholics I regularly engage with, 4 of them are particularly combative, are seriously well educated and knowledgeable in Catholic doctrine, dogma, and philosophy, have a serious understanding of the early church fathers, but, and is a big but, their knowledge is so far more advanced than your average Catholic, even of the priests I knew growing up into my 20s, that I believe they are actually trained in apologetics, and while each one is different, they have a different method of debate and argument, they all have in common means by which they use cunning and deception in order to destroy their opponent's arguments, and character. They are priests I believe, possibly Jesuits, trained to dismantle Protestantism everywhere they find it. I'm surprised they aren't already here, although I understand this is a new forum. They would certainly add to the colour and flavour of the discussions here, but as a poster here said before, they will certainly leverage the rules to shut down our view if our answers become too pointed and difficult to respond to.
They also often play the victim card, accusing protestants of hate speech, anti-Catholic bigotry, and lying, then complaining to the administrators that the thread has turned nasty and insulting, as a direct result of their own gaslighting, and demand the thread be closed.
Makes for an interesting vibe, but not one that can be tolerated for too long.
I have engaged Catholics on another forum, who boast that their only reason for being there is to counter the lies told about them, to refute the wrong teachings of Protestantism regarding Catholicism. I have found that of the 5 or so Catholics I regularly engage with, 4 of them are particularly combative, are seriously well educated and knowledgeable in Catholic doctrine, dogma, and philosophy, have a serious understanding of the early church fathers, but, and is a big but, their knowledge is so far more advanced than your average Catholic, even of the priests I knew growing up into my 20s, that I believe they are actually trained in apologetics, and while each one is different, they have a different method of debate and argument, they all have in common means by which they use cunning and deception in order to destroy their opponent's arguments, and character. They are priests I believe, possibly Jesuits, trained to dismantle Protestantism everywhere they find it. I'm surprised they aren't already here, although I understand this is a new forum. They would certainly add to the colour and flavour of the discussions here, but as a poster here said before, they will certainly leverage the rules to shut down our view if our answers become too pointed and difficult to respond to.
They also often play the victim card, accusing protestants of hate speech, anti-Catholic bigotry, and lying, then complaining to the administrators that the thread has turned nasty and insulting, as a direct result of their own gaslighting, and demand the thread be closed.
Makes for an interesting vibe, but not one that can be tolerated for too long.
Brakelite
Active member
We have that in common, an interest in church history. What I have found though is that those Catholics I have been in discussion with in the past, have a deep knowledge of church history but only if it favours them. Anything that brings disrepute or doubt as to Catholic historicity and connection to the Apostles, or any suggestion that the early church fathers were less than true to the teachings of the apostles is met with belligerent one eyed dogmatism and a refusal to accept any other view, insulting and belittling the sources. Denial, and outright refusal to acknowledge anything other than that which concurs with and supports Catholic orthodoxy in apostolic succession, papal authority, doctrinal integrity, etc etc, is in essence, a continuation of having to fight the reformation. It seldom ends well.
Brakelite
Active member
I find agreement with them on moral issues such as abortion, and applaud their determination to resist the liberal statutes so prevalent in left wing government environments. What disturbs me however is that when one digs a little deeper, you find many of those same left wing governments have deep ties to Catholicism, and a history of supporting Catholic political philosophy, which is in essence a baptized version of fascist totalitarianism and socialism.
Matthias
Well-known member
I recall that from at least one other forum that we’ve been on together.
I’ve gone my fair share of rounds with them. They bring a lot to the table. Some of it is great. Take the great and leave the rest, I suggest.
Olde Tymer
Well-known member
.
Hello;
I was christened an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944, and eventually
attended catechism to complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation.
My siblings are Catholic, my mother was Catholic, my youngest brother was an
altar boy, and my eldest brother entered the priesthood and made it to Friar before
passing away in May 2018 of cancer.
My wife is a former Catholic, her dad was Catholic, his wife was Catholic, my aunt
and uncle were Catholics, My sister-in-law was a "religious" for a number of years
before falling out with the hierarchy that controlled her order, and my wife's cousins
are Catholic; one of them is an ordained Deacon.
I was loyal to Rome up until I was 24, then one day I was approached by a
Protestant who asked me if I was prepared for Christ's return.
Well; I must've been either asleep or absent the day that the nuns talked about
Jesus coming back because that man's question was the very first time in my whole
life that I can remember somebody telling me anything like that.
My initial reaction was alarm because I instinctively knew that were I called on the
carpet for a face-to-face with Jesus, it would not go well for me because I had a lot
to answer for. Well; I don't like being made to feel afraid so I became indignant and
demanded to know why Jesus would come back. That's when I found out for the
very first time that it was in the plan for Christ to take over the world. (I had
somehow missed that in catechism too.)
Then the Protestant asked me if I was going to Heaven. Well; of course I had no
clue because Catholics honestly don't know what to expect when they pass away. I
was crossing my fingers while in the back of my mind dreading the worst.
Then the man said; "Don't you know that Jesus died for your sins?"
Well; I had been taught in catechism that Jesus died for the sins of the world; that
much I knew; but honestly believed all along that he had been a victim of
unfortunate circumstances. It was a shock to discover that Jesus' trip to the cross
was deliberate, and that his Father was thinking of me when His son passed away,
viz: my sins were among the sins of the world that Jesus took to the cross with
him.
At that very instant-- scarcely a nanosecond --something took over in my mind as I
fully realized, to my great relief, that Heaven was no longer out of reach, rather,
well within my grasp!
That was an amazing experience. In just the two or three minutes of conversation
with that Protestant, I obtained an understanding of Jesus' crucifixion that many
tedious catechism classes had somehow failed to get across. Consequently, my
confidence in the Roman Catholic Church was shattered like a bar of peanut brittle
candy dropped to the sidewalk from the tippy top of the Chrysler building.
Long story short; I eventually went with that man to his church and, side by side
with him and a couple of elders, knelt at the rail down front and prayed a really
simple, naive prayer that went something like this:
"God, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death"
My prayer wasn't much to brag about; but it was the smartest sixteen words I'd
ever spoken up to that time.
* There are folks at large who have never yet complied with the Sermon On The
Mount, and know in their hearts they never will. I highly recommend they follow my
example and speak with God by means of words similar to mine rather than risk
their chances at the great white throne event depicted by Rev 20:11-15 where the
lost will be terminated by a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a
kettle of molten iron. Jesus' crucifixion has made it possible for God to get people
into a position of safety where they will never again be in danger of their worst
nightmare.
● John 5:24 . . Amen, amen, I say to you: whoever hears my word, and believes in
the one who sent me, has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has
passed from death to life.
Buen Camino
(Pleasant Journey)
_
Hello;
I was christened an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944, and eventually
attended catechism to complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation.
My siblings are Catholic, my mother was Catholic, my youngest brother was an
altar boy, and my eldest brother entered the priesthood and made it to Friar before
passing away in May 2018 of cancer.
My wife is a former Catholic, her dad was Catholic, his wife was Catholic, my aunt
and uncle were Catholics, My sister-in-law was a "religious" for a number of years
before falling out with the hierarchy that controlled her order, and my wife's cousins
are Catholic; one of them is an ordained Deacon.
I was loyal to Rome up until I was 24, then one day I was approached by a
Protestant who asked me if I was prepared for Christ's return.
Well; I must've been either asleep or absent the day that the nuns talked about
Jesus coming back because that man's question was the very first time in my whole
life that I can remember somebody telling me anything like that.
My initial reaction was alarm because I instinctively knew that were I called on the
carpet for a face-to-face with Jesus, it would not go well for me because I had a lot
to answer for. Well; I don't like being made to feel afraid so I became indignant and
demanded to know why Jesus would come back. That's when I found out for the
very first time that it was in the plan for Christ to take over the world. (I had
somehow missed that in catechism too.)
Then the Protestant asked me if I was going to Heaven. Well; of course I had no
clue because Catholics honestly don't know what to expect when they pass away. I
was crossing my fingers while in the back of my mind dreading the worst.
Then the man said; "Don't you know that Jesus died for your sins?"
Well; I had been taught in catechism that Jesus died for the sins of the world; that
much I knew; but honestly believed all along that he had been a victim of
unfortunate circumstances. It was a shock to discover that Jesus' trip to the cross
was deliberate, and that his Father was thinking of me when His son passed away,
viz: my sins were among the sins of the world that Jesus took to the cross with
him.
At that very instant-- scarcely a nanosecond --something took over in my mind as I
fully realized, to my great relief, that Heaven was no longer out of reach, rather,
well within my grasp!
That was an amazing experience. In just the two or three minutes of conversation
with that Protestant, I obtained an understanding of Jesus' crucifixion that many
tedious catechism classes had somehow failed to get across. Consequently, my
confidence in the Roman Catholic Church was shattered like a bar of peanut brittle
candy dropped to the sidewalk from the tippy top of the Chrysler building.
Long story short; I eventually went with that man to his church and, side by side
with him and a couple of elders, knelt at the rail down front and prayed a really
simple, naive prayer that went something like this:
"God, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death"
My prayer wasn't much to brag about; but it was the smartest sixteen words I'd
ever spoken up to that time.
* There are folks at large who have never yet complied with the Sermon On The
Mount, and know in their hearts they never will. I highly recommend they follow my
example and speak with God by means of words similar to mine rather than risk
their chances at the great white throne event depicted by Rev 20:11-15 where the
lost will be terminated by a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a
kettle of molten iron. Jesus' crucifixion has made it possible for God to get people
into a position of safety where they will never again be in danger of their worst
nightmare.
● John 5:24 . . Amen, amen, I say to you: whoever hears my word, and believes in
the one who sent me, has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has
passed from death to life.
Buen Camino
(Pleasant Journey)
_
Brakelite
Active member
Well written, and a similar testimony to thousands, many of whom I have met, who are ex Catholics for one simple reason... They heard the gospel.
Olde Tymer
Well-known member
.
Back in the day when I was a young Catholic guy thinking about his future
prospects, it occurred to me that even if I was able to force myself to be pious
enough during this lifetime to qualify for Heaven; I was pretty sure I couldn't keep
it up for eternity. Sooner or later my true colors would show themselves and I'd get
kicked out. I thought to myself: If only holiness was as natural to me as it is Jesus,
my chances of satisfying God's expectations and remaining in Heaven would be
greatly improved.
Well; God must've been reading my mind because in time I ran across a passage in
Ezekiel 36:24-27 that goes like this:
"I will take you from among the nations and gather you from all the countries, and
I will bring you to your land. And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you will
be clean; from all your impurities and from all your abominations will I cleanse you.
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will
take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put My spirit within you and bring it about that you will walk in My
statutes and you will keep My ordinances and do them."
That promise was made to God's people; the Jews. But it turns out that Christians
have a shot at something very similar; maybe even better.
● 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given us everything we need for life and
godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and
goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises,
so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
I think we'd have to agree that divine nature is a whole lots better to work with
than human nature ever will be. It's quite an advantage; and Peter said it's
available.
_
Back in the day when I was a young Catholic guy thinking about his future
prospects, it occurred to me that even if I was able to force myself to be pious
enough during this lifetime to qualify for Heaven; I was pretty sure I couldn't keep
it up for eternity. Sooner or later my true colors would show themselves and I'd get
kicked out. I thought to myself: If only holiness was as natural to me as it is Jesus,
my chances of satisfying God's expectations and remaining in Heaven would be
greatly improved.
Well; God must've been reading my mind because in time I ran across a passage in
Ezekiel 36:24-27 that goes like this:
"I will take you from among the nations and gather you from all the countries, and
I will bring you to your land. And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you will
be clean; from all your impurities and from all your abominations will I cleanse you.
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will
take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put My spirit within you and bring it about that you will walk in My
statutes and you will keep My ordinances and do them."
That promise was made to God's people; the Jews. But it turns out that Christians
have a shot at something very similar; maybe even better.
● 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given us everything we need for life and
godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and
goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises,
so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
I think we'd have to agree that divine nature is a whole lots better to work with
than human nature ever will be. It's quite an advantage; and Peter said it's
available.
_
Last edited:
Olde Tymer
Well-known member
.
Some time ago, I was a big fan of a morning television show hosted by Regis
Philbin and Cathy Lee Gifford. Regis was a Catholic and Cathy was a Protestant.
Once in a while they would talk about religion and one morning John 3:14-15 came
up, which goes like this:
”Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted
up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."
If I remember correctly, someone had emailed the show requesting an explanation
of that passage. Well; neither Regis nor Cathy had a clue. I was aghast. There were
two of the most well-respected, well-loved, high profile Christians imaginable with a
golden opportunity to speak for Christ on national television and they dropped the ball.
The incident to which Christ referred is located at Num 21:5-9.
Long story short: Moses' people became weary of living in the desert and eating
manna all the time at every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically,
petitioning their divine benefactor for tastier food and better accommodations, they
became hostile and confrontational.
In response to their insolence; God sent a swarm of deadly poisonous snakes
among them; which began striking people; and every strike was 100% fatal, no
exceptions. In no time at all, much people of Israel died. Then those not yet dead
got nervous and appealed to Moses for help. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to
construct a replica of the beasts and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that
everyone dying from snake bite could look to it for an antidote.
Now the key issue here is that the replica, lifted up, was the only God-given
remedy for the people's fatal condition-- not purity, not sacrifices and offerings, not
tithing, not church attendance, not missionary work, not sacraments, not holy days
of obligation, not the Sabbath, not charity, not good deeds, not good behavior, not
piety, not scapulars, not Bible study and Sunday school, not catechism or yeshiva,
not rosaries, not the Wailing Wall, not one's religion of choice, not self denial and/or
self control, not the so called golden rule, not vows of poverty and/or chastity, not
the Ten Commandments, not the Eucharist; no, none of that. The replica, lifted up,
was it; viz: it was all or nothing at all-- there were no exceptions and no other
options. Whoever failed to look to that replica for relief ended up dead.
As an allegory: Christ, lifted up on the cross to satisfy justice for the sins of the world,
is the only God-given option for protection from a fate worse than death.
FAQ: How does one go about availing themselves of Christ's crucifixion?
REPLY: The best way is to RSVP God and tell Him-- in your own words --that you've
thus far failed to satisfy His expectations, and you're pretty sure you never will.
Then simply tell Him you would like to take advantage of His son's crucifixion to
avoid the consequences.
They say silence is golden but in this case silence could be terminal; so get this
benefit locked in now, while it's on the table; and for Pete's sake don't take it for
granted that God will come around every so often to remind you 'cause He's not
obligated to do that and will quite possibly take it as a personal insult if you keep
ignoring His attempts to offer you His son.
_
Some time ago, I was a big fan of a morning television show hosted by Regis
Philbin and Cathy Lee Gifford. Regis was a Catholic and Cathy was a Protestant.
Once in a while they would talk about religion and one morning John 3:14-15 came
up, which goes like this:
”Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted
up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."
If I remember correctly, someone had emailed the show requesting an explanation
of that passage. Well; neither Regis nor Cathy had a clue. I was aghast. There were
two of the most well-respected, well-loved, high profile Christians imaginable with a
golden opportunity to speak for Christ on national television and they dropped the ball.
The incident to which Christ referred is located at Num 21:5-9.
Long story short: Moses' people became weary of living in the desert and eating
manna all the time at every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically,
petitioning their divine benefactor for tastier food and better accommodations, they
became hostile and confrontational.
In response to their insolence; God sent a swarm of deadly poisonous snakes
among them; which began striking people; and every strike was 100% fatal, no
exceptions. In no time at all, much people of Israel died. Then those not yet dead
got nervous and appealed to Moses for help. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to
construct a replica of the beasts and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that
everyone dying from snake bite could look to it for an antidote.
Now the key issue here is that the replica, lifted up, was the only God-given
remedy for the people's fatal condition-- not purity, not sacrifices and offerings, not
tithing, not church attendance, not missionary work, not sacraments, not holy days
of obligation, not the Sabbath, not charity, not good deeds, not good behavior, not
piety, not scapulars, not Bible study and Sunday school, not catechism or yeshiva,
not rosaries, not the Wailing Wall, not one's religion of choice, not self denial and/or
self control, not the so called golden rule, not vows of poverty and/or chastity, not
the Ten Commandments, not the Eucharist; no, none of that. The replica, lifted up,
was it; viz: it was all or nothing at all-- there were no exceptions and no other
options. Whoever failed to look to that replica for relief ended up dead.
As an allegory: Christ, lifted up on the cross to satisfy justice for the sins of the world,
is the only God-given option for protection from a fate worse than death.
FAQ: How does one go about availing themselves of Christ's crucifixion?
REPLY: The best way is to RSVP God and tell Him-- in your own words --that you've
thus far failed to satisfy His expectations, and you're pretty sure you never will.
Then simply tell Him you would like to take advantage of His son's crucifixion to
avoid the consequences.
They say silence is golden but in this case silence could be terminal; so get this
benefit locked in now, while it's on the table; and for Pete's sake don't take it for
granted that God will come around every so often to remind you 'cause He's not
obligated to do that and will quite possibly take it as a personal insult if you keep
ignoring His attempts to offer you His son.
_
Last edited:
Brakelite
Active member
I'm impressed. As an ex Catholic I must say that you, also an ex Catholic, have nailed the gospel. I have always maintained that there are genuine Christians in every denomination, including Catholicism. And every one of them will be in heaven for one reason, and one reason only. They had a hunger and thirst for righteousness, and lived fully according to what light they had. They may not have understood all doctrine. They may not have been perfect revelations of Christ's righteousness. But they knew that without Jesus, they could do nothing.
civic
Well-known member
Thanks for sharing your story with us.
civic
Well-known member
excellent post !
