Micaiah
Active member
No inspired writer cited any text claiming Jesus was God. None, nobody, nada.
The claim itself isn’t plainly written anywhere in the canon either.
How is it that these trinitarian claims only come from uninspired writers?
Do Trinitarians really know their foundational core doctrines and their impact on their beliefs and others?
- Thread starter APAK
- Start date
No inspired writer cited any text claiming Jesus was God. None, nobody, nada.
The claim itself isn’t plainly written anywhere in the canon either.
How is it that these trinitarian claims only come from uninspired writers?
DavidTree
Well-known member
The OT Prophets did = Isaiah , Zechariah , Jeremiah
The LORD Jesus did in His Gospel and in Revelation
The Apostle John did in the Gospel of John
Micaiah
Active member
All ambiguous references.
civic
Well-known member
Jesus is the Lord in Joel, Isaiah and Jeremiah. No ambiguity
Joel 2:27-32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the LORD has said,
Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.
Paul quotes Joel below and says it is Jesus who is the Lord(YHWH) whom all will call upon
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of C all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Isaiah 45:21-24
Is it not I, the LORD?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me.
22 " Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24 "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.'
Now Paul quotes Isaiah about YHWH and declares it is Jesus(YHWH) whom all will bow before,
Philippians 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Isaiah 6:1-5
In the year of King, Uzziah's death, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2 Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called out to another and said,
"Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,,
The whole earth is full of His glory."
4 And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5 Then I said,
5"Woe is me, for I am ruined!,
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;,
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."
Below John says Isaiah saw His ( Jesus the Son's ) glory. This was the only time the prophet Isaiah saw the Lord ( YHWH )
John 12:41
These things Isaiah said, because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him
Jeremiah 17:10 the Lord says
"I the LORD search the heart, I test the mind. Even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings"
In Revelation 2:23 Jesus says
"I am He who searches the minds and hearts and I will give to each one of you according to your works"
So if Jesus is not God ( YHWH ) why would he claim to do something in Revelation that Yahweh claimed in Jeremiah?
So is it Yahweh or Jesus who searches hearts and minds?
The only name that can possibly be above all names is the name of YHWH. This means that Jesus shares the personal name and authority of YHWH, making Him God Himself as no one can be equal to God except God alone.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Isaiah 43: 11- Yahweh said that He is our only Savior- Even I Am Yahweh and there is no other Savior besides Me. This verse is very clear as to its meaning. We see that Yahweh is the Name God bestowed on Jesus and it is Yahweh which is the Name that is above every name and it is Yahweh to which every knee will bow. There is no mistaking that Paul declares in his epistles that Jesus is the Yahweh of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus is our Lord Yahweh in the New Testament as well as our Savior. These were the specific names that were Gods alone in the Old Testament. Yahweh is the name given by God for Himself. In the OT YHWH and was considered so holy that a devout Jew would not pronounce it. God revealed His name to Moses in Exodus 3:14 When God said, "I Am Who I AM." YHWH is only used to refer to the one true God. His name and glory were not to be given to another. Isaiah wrote:” Thus says the Lord (YHWH)I Am the First and I Am the Last and beside me there is no God. "I Am (YHWH) that is My name; and My Glory I will not give to another, neither My praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8) That is why the Jews picked up stones and accused Jesus of blasphemy when He claimed to be YHWH. Jesus claimed to be the judge of all men (Matt 25:31, John 5:27) Joel quotes Yahweh as saying, "For there I will sit to judge all surrounding nations" (Joel 3:12).Jesus prayed, "Father, glorify Me with Thy own self with the Glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5) But here we read that YHWH said, "I will not give My Glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8). But we see in Scripture that God/Yahweh offers all His Glory to Jesus. Christ says, "I Am the first and the last" (Rev 1:17) the exact words used by YHWH in Isaiah 42:28. In John 8:58 where Jesus says:” Before Abraham was born, I Am." Jesus was either "guilty" as the Jews charged Him of blasphemy, or He is who He claimed to be(YHWH). He clearly claimed to be God. If He is only a good teacher or prophet then He would be a liar as the late CS Lewis once said on par with a poached egg, because He claimed equality with God and no created being has equality with God. The Jews knew and understood His meaning and picked up stones to kill Him for blaspheming. (John 8:58; 10:31-33). We can clearly see the identity of the Almighty God of scripture and He is none other than Jesus who is YHWH(Almighty God) in the flesh. He appeared to men in the OT as the angel(messenger) of the Lord and now is permanently both YHWH and man. He is forever the Godman in the flesh. YHWH has come in the flesh and those who deny this scripture declares are the spirit of antichrist(1 John 4:1-4, 2 John 7).
John 1:18 says, "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God/Son who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared of explained Him." And then there is John 6:46, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath sen the Father." The point being made is the fact that the Son of God is the visible manifestation of God (Hebrews 1:3) and the kicker verse if you wil is John 5:37, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. YOU HAVE NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME, NOR SEEN HIS FORM." So Jesus here out His own mouth says you have neither heard the Fathers voice nor seen His form."
hope this helps !!!
John 1:18 says, "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God/Son who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared of explained Him." And then there is John 6:46, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath sen the Father." The point being made is the fact that the Son of God is the visible manifestation of God (Hebrews 1:3) and the kicker verse if you wil is John 5:37, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. YOU HAVE NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME, NOR SEEN HIS FORM." So Jesus here out His own mouth says you have neither heard the Fathers voice nor seen His form."
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Yes Jesus claimed to be God several times and the Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant and tried stoning Him for claiming to be God.
civic
Well-known member
Here are several passages where He claimed to be God and they tried to stone Him
John 5:16-18
So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 8:58-59
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am !
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
John 10:33
"We are not stoning You for any good work," said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God."
John 19:7
"We have a law," answered the Jews, "and according to that law He must die, because He declared Himself to be the Son of God."
hope this helps !!!
John 5:16-18
So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 8:58-59
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am !
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
John 10:33
"We are not stoning You for any good work," said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God."
John 19:7
"We have a law," answered the Jews, "and according to that law He must die, because He declared Himself to be the Son of God."
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
What the Son and the Father have in common that no other man ever had or will have. The Father/Son share the exact same Divine Attributes as God.
Jesus assumed the prerogatives of Yahweh. He claimed to have control over mans eternal destiny (John 8:24,Luke 12:8-9, John 5:22, 27-29)
Jesus claimed to have authority over the Sabbath (Matt. 12:8, Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5)
Jesus claimed to have the power to answer prayer (John 14:13-14, Acts 7:59, 9:10-17)
Jesus claimed and to have the right to receive worship and faith due to God alone (Matt. 21:16, John 14:1, John 5:23).
Jesus claimed to forgive sins, something only God could do and the Jews knew this to be true. (Mark 2:5-11)
Jesus also called God's angels (Luke 12:8-9, 15:10) His angels (Matt. 13:41, 24:30-31)
Jesus called God's elect (Luke 18:7, Rom. 8:33) His elect (Matt. 24:30-31)
Jesus called God's kingdom (Matt. 12:28, Mark 1:15, Luke 4:43, John 3:3) His kingdom (Matt. 13:41, Luke 1:33).
The Lord's favorite description of Himself was "Son of Man" (cf. Matt. 8:20; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:22; John 9:35-37, etc.). Although that title seems to stress His humanity, it also speaks of His Deity. Jesus use of the term derives from Daniel 7:13-14, where the Son of Man is on equal terms with God the Father, the Ancient of Days.
hope this helps !!!
Jesus assumed the prerogatives of Yahweh. He claimed to have control over mans eternal destiny (John 8:24,Luke 12:8-9, John 5:22, 27-29)
Jesus claimed to have authority over the Sabbath (Matt. 12:8, Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5)
Jesus claimed to have the power to answer prayer (John 14:13-14, Acts 7:59, 9:10-17)
Jesus claimed and to have the right to receive worship and faith due to God alone (Matt. 21:16, John 14:1, John 5:23).
Jesus claimed to forgive sins, something only God could do and the Jews knew this to be true. (Mark 2:5-11)
Jesus also called God's angels (Luke 12:8-9, 15:10) His angels (Matt. 13:41, 24:30-31)
Jesus called God's elect (Luke 18:7, Rom. 8:33) His elect (Matt. 24:30-31)
Jesus called God's kingdom (Matt. 12:28, Mark 1:15, Luke 4:43, John 3:3) His kingdom (Matt. 13:41, Luke 1:33).
The Lord's favorite description of Himself was "Son of Man" (cf. Matt. 8:20; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:22; John 9:35-37, etc.). Although that title seems to stress His humanity, it also speaks of His Deity. Jesus use of the term derives from Daniel 7:13-14, where the Son of Man is on equal terms with God the Father, the Ancient of Days.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
The Son pre-existed His birth as a man. No man pre-exists- only God can pre exist.
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory
These verses in John’s prologue reveal the pre existence of the Eternal Word/Son who was God and became flesh. He was the Creator of all things. Nothing came into existence apart from Him. He is before everything that has a beginning.
John 1:15
15 John bore witness of Him, and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
John 1:30
"This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'
John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is impossible for Christ to be before him unless Jesus pre existed.
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven — the Son of Man.
Again we see the pre existence of the Son and where He declares that He came from heaven to earth.
John 3:17
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.
This verse shows the Son was sent from heaven by the Father to the earth.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Human beings come into existence when they are born into this world, but we surely do not come from Heaven.
John 8:23
"You are from beneath I Am from above, you are of this world I Am not of this world"
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am."
Here we see that Jesus lets the Pharisees know that He existed as a person before Abraham was born. Once again we see Jesus claiming to be the Eternal God.
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify Me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
Here we see the Son declared that He shared the same Glory together with the Father prior to creation. This passage makes Him equal with the Father as the Eternal God.
John 17:24
"Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me; for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world.
Below we read it was the Son who already existed as the Son which the Father sent into the world.
John 3:16-17
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.
1 Cor 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
Col 1:13-18
For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 15 And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created by Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Heb 1:2-3
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.
Heb 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever,
Heb 5:7-8
In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8 Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.
The question is who or what was He before the days of His flesh? It is obvious that He pre existed before His birth(days of His flesh) as the Son.
Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
1 John 4:14
And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
In 1 John 3:8 we see that the Son of Gods appearance or manifestation was for this very purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil. The verb φανερόω means to make manifest, appeared, to make visible or to bring to light something that was previously hidden. This clearly means that Jesus had already existed as the Son of God and He was made manifest or visible to us.
hope this helps !!!
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory
These verses in John’s prologue reveal the pre existence of the Eternal Word/Son who was God and became flesh. He was the Creator of all things. Nothing came into existence apart from Him. He is before everything that has a beginning.
John 1:15
15 John bore witness of Him, and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
John 1:30
"This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'
John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is impossible for Christ to be before him unless Jesus pre existed.
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven — the Son of Man.
Again we see the pre existence of the Son and where He declares that He came from heaven to earth.
John 3:17
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.
This verse shows the Son was sent from heaven by the Father to the earth.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Human beings come into existence when they are born into this world, but we surely do not come from Heaven.
John 8:23
"You are from beneath I Am from above, you are of this world I Am not of this world"
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am."
Here we see that Jesus lets the Pharisees know that He existed as a person before Abraham was born. Once again we see Jesus claiming to be the Eternal God.
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify Me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
Here we see the Son declared that He shared the same Glory together with the Father prior to creation. This passage makes Him equal with the Father as the Eternal God.
John 17:24
"Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me; for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world.
Below we read it was the Son who already existed as the Son which the Father sent into the world.
John 3:16-17
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.
1 Cor 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
Col 1:13-18
For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 15 And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created by Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Heb 1:2-3
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.
Heb 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever,
Heb 5:7-8
In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8 Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.
The question is who or what was He before the days of His flesh? It is obvious that He pre existed before His birth(days of His flesh) as the Son.
Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
1 John 4:14
And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
In 1 John 3:8 we see that the Son of Gods appearance or manifestation was for this very purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil. The verb φανερόω means to make manifest, appeared, to make visible or to bring to light something that was previously hidden. This clearly means that Jesus had already existed as the Son of God and He was made manifest or visible to us.
hope this helps !!!
DavidTree
Well-known member
You have put together an 'art exhibit' of the 'body' of scripture whereby equality of the FATHER/SON is undeniable - Thank You
Now that we have examined this scriptural 'body' of evidence, i would like you to SEE the two direct passages of scripture that JESUS spoke concerning Himself and by which He declares Himself to be God on earth/with us = Immanuel
You already know these passages pf scripture.
We have read them many a time and yet we overlooked the 'simplicity' of 'revelation' within the Word Itself.
But that is exactly how God desires to speak and reveal Himself.
DavidTree
Well-known member
@Micaiah and @civic
Matt ch19
Here in Matthew ch19 the LORD Jesus declaring Himself God by exemplifying the Holy Scriptures as the way to know God through Himself.
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
There is only one conclusion given here by the LORD Jesus Christ of Himself concerning God/Eternal Life/the Way to Heaven
Matt ch19
Here in Matthew ch19 the LORD Jesus declaring Himself God by exemplifying the Holy Scriptures as the way to know God through Himself.
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
There is only one conclusion given here by the LORD Jesus Christ of Himself concerning God/Eternal Life/the Way to Heaven
civic
Well-known member
One of my favorite passages by Jesus. It declares His Deity and Sovereignty. The same from Marks gospel.
God is Good
Mark 10:13-27
13 People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16 And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.
17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 19 "You know the commandments, ' DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'" 20 And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." 21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.
23 And Jesus, looking around, * said to His disciples, "A How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!" 24 The disciples A were amazed at His words. But Jesus * answered again and said to them, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 26 They were even more astonished and said to Him, " Then who can be saved?" 27 Looking at them, Jesus said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God."
Jesus point in His questioning of the ruler was rhetorical in nature. Do you know who you are calling good? Only God is good. He was saying to the ruler "Do you know who I Am and who you are speaking too? If you read on it becomes obvious for Jesus turned him away from gaining eternal life. He knew what was in his heart and keeping him away from the kingdom. Only God knows what is in mans heart and can allow a person into His Kingdom. Jesus was clearly claiming to be God in this passage.
No prophet, apostle or teacher has ever talked in this presumptuous way in which Jesus did in the gospels and especially in this passage in the synoptic gospel. The young ruler runs up to Jesus kneels to Him in worship and asks Him how can I obtain eternal life? Jesus answers back and said come "Follow ME!" Do you see what Jesus is claiming? He does not say, these are the teachings that God has given me or follow these rules and you will get into heaven. He did not say to follow God or submit to God. Jesus tells the man to follow Me! Only God has that prerogative.
He was saying indirectly to the ruler, know that whom you are speaking to is God. He was letting the young ruler understand who he was talking to and addressing as good. Look at it this way, Is He saying He is not good, and therefore not God? Or is He saying that He is good, and the reason this man can call Him good is because He is God? I opt for the second statement.
Let’s examine the context of the passage and what is going on when this man approaches Jesus. He says why do you call me good and points out to the man that only God is good. The man is unaware of His identity which Jesus who knew men’s hearts was aware of with the young ruler. This man thought of Jesus as just a mere man and not the Son of God. Jesus response was not one of denying His own sinlessness or deity. The context clearly shows just the opposite to be true. Jesus claims absolute authority over the young ruler by asking him to come and Follow Me. To call Him "good teacher" you better recognize who you are speaking to and this is exactly the point Jesus was getting across to the young ruler. Jesus is eternal life and the man was unaware of this truth which is rather obvious by his questions.
How does one obtain eternal life? Jesus confronted him with His Lordship when He said come and follow Me. Jesus confronted the man's sin of covetousness. It was a sin of indulgence and materialism. He was indifferent to people who were poor and in need. So Jesus gave him the ultimate test, would he obey His Lordship? The antis and non trins get all hung up on who is good and cannot see past the plank in their own eyes to see what one must do to be saved. They're still in an unbelieving state and miss out on eternal life from its very source, Jesus. Rather sad indeed.
If we further examine the context of the question asked by the young ruler in verse 13 we read; people were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, He was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16 And He took the children in His arms, put His hands on them and blessed them. 17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to Him and fell on his knees before Him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 "Why do you call Me good?" Jesus answered. Let’s see what question was asked of Jesus. How can I get eternal life?" is the question. "Follow ME!" is the answer that he gets from Jesus. Do you see what He is claiming? He does NOT say, these are the teachings that God has given Me. Follow these rules and you will get to heaven. He did not say, "follow God or submit to God", but he said "Follow ME!". Jesus is Lord and had the authority to ask of mankind, Follow Me!
John 1:6-8
John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through Him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
John 5:39-40
39 " You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 8:14
" Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going.
John 8:18-20
18 I am one who testifies for Myself; My other witness is the Father, who sent Me."
19 Then they asked Him, "Where is your father?"
"You do not know Me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew Me, you would know My Father also."
Luke 24:27
Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.
Luke 24:44-45
44 Now He said to them, " These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
Its all about Jesus from beginning to end. He is the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega ! He is the Great I Am. The Good Shepherd indeed !
hope this helps,
DavidTree
Well-known member
@Micaiah @civic
Here is the other declaration of the Lord concerning His True Identity in the passage of Mark ch10 which @civic gave in Post #374
Then Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
26And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?”
27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
Do you SEE this???
civic
Well-known member
Amen He is declaring He is God.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Correct
He just disqualified all men as being able to save mankind from their sins.
Therefore, HE must be God since HE commands us to believe on Him for Salvation.
Which then ties the 'Body of Scripture' together as speaking of Himself in relation to Israel, the Nations, the Angels(Good and Bad) and all of Creation.
AND as @civic pointed out previously (3rd Proclamation): JESUS says: "No one has seen God at anytime nor heard His voice"
civic
Well-known member
Amen
dwight92070
Well-known member
Isaiah 9:6 "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."
Isaiah was inspired. He prophesied that this son, obviously Jesus, would be called Mighty God.
How is it that these non-Trinitarians don't know the scripture as they claim?
Civic's very thorough list in #371 should be more than enough scriptural evidence that Jesus is God. But people who are dead - set against His Deity will twist every verse or passage to "make it say" something that it does not say. The truth is that only one verse or passage should be sufficient to show His Deity, but they either explain away or ignore all of them.
The truth is that they DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE that Jesus is God, so no amount of scriptural evidence is good enough for them. It's really a disrespect for God's word and Jesus Himself.
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dwight92070
Well-known member
Here's one that many overlook. Remember in Luke 18:11-19, that Jesus healed ten lepers? In verse 15 it says:
"Now one of them, when he saw that he had been healed, turned back, glorifying God with a loud voice ..."
How did he glorify God? Well, read on.
"and He fell on his face at His feet, giving thanks to Him." So this is how he glorified God, by worshiping Jesus.
He was at Jesus' feet giving thanks to Him, so if Jesus' was not God, you would think that He would tell Him, "Get up, I too am just a man." , just like Peter corrected Cornelius, when he fell at Peter's feet. But instead, listen to what Jesus said:
"Was no one found who RETURNED to give glory to God, except this foreigner?"
Jesus says here that to fall on your face at His feet, giving thanks to Him- is giving glory to God!
"Now one of them, when he saw that he had been healed, turned back, glorifying God with a loud voice ..."
How did he glorify God? Well, read on.
"and He fell on his face at His feet, giving thanks to Him." So this is how he glorified God, by worshiping Jesus.
He was at Jesus' feet giving thanks to Him, so if Jesus' was not God, you would think that He would tell Him, "Get up, I too am just a man." , just like Peter corrected Cornelius, when he fell at Peter's feet. But instead, listen to what Jesus said:
"Was no one found who RETURNED to give glory to God, except this foreigner?"
Jesus says here that to fall on your face at His feet, giving thanks to Him- is giving glory to God!
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