Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

[FreeInChrist]

You must know that sinners who are enslaved to sin hav e no free will or Christ was talking nonsense when He said they were enslaved by sin. The fact that your theology must deny or hide from this is not a mystery, it is a mistake.

Sigh......

Your statement assumes this. That Either sinners have no free will at all, or Jesus was talking nonsense.

That’s a false dilemma. Scripture teaches moral bondage, not the absence of human will.

Being enslaved to sin does not equal being a robot.

Fact~
Jesus never said sinners lack a will. He said their will is corrupted and misdirected.

Lets just Clarify what Jesus meant by “enslaved to sin” from John 8 :34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

So.....“Everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.”

We know that “Slave” describes,
dominion, mastery, and the inability to free oneself

We also know that "Slave" does not mean,
no capacity to choose, no responsibility, or no ability to respond to God’s call

IF...... “slave” meant no free will at all, then,
Commands to repent make no sense, Warnings become meaningless and Judgment becomes unjust

Yet Scripture repeatedly says,

Josh 24:15 “If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”

Ezek 18:32 “For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live.”

Mark 1:15 "and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

God does not command what is metaphysically impossible.

If sinners are enslaved .... then what is the possibility of

Romans 6:17....But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

Paul actually affirms both slavery to sin and genuine human response

If slavery removed all free will, obedience “from the heart” would be impossible.

How about when God appeals to the will of sinners when he asks

Ez 18:31 “Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?

God doesn’t ask “why” if there is no meaningful will involved.

It is Jesus who holds people morally responsible,

John 5:40 “ and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life."

Notice what this says.... Not “you are unable” .....But “you refuse”

Refusal presupposes will.

And if you do not understand by now I am not going on as the game is on and I want to get to it....

You obviously are blinded to the understanding that Bondage is not the absence of will..... it is the corruption of will.

If sinners have no free will whatsoever, then unbelief is not culpable, commands are meaningless, and repentance is incoherent.

Scripture teaches slavery to sin, not the annihilation of the human will.

Jesus taught that sinners are enslaved to sin, not that they lack a will. Slavery describes dominion, not the absence of choice. Scripture consistently commands sinners to repent, warns them, and holds them responsible .....something that would be unjust and meaningless if they had no free will at all

You can look these up for yourself... John 5:40; Rom 6:17; Ezek 18:31.

Goodnight

 

[TedT]

Your statement assumes this. That Either sinners have no free will at all, or Jesus was talking nonsense.

YES ! and since Christ did not talk nonsense, it is plain sinners do not have a free will, all least until they are given the grace of faith and are reborn, their free will restored to be trained in righteousness by discipline.

 

[FreeInChrist]

YES ! and since Christ did not talk nonsense, it is plain sinners do not have a free will, all least until they are given the grace of faith and are reborn, their free will restored to be trained in righteousness by discipline.

Your argument is mistaken because it assumes that being “enslaved to sin” eliminates the will itself, when Scripture uses slavery language to describe moral bondage, not the absence of choice. Jesus consistently calls sinners to repent, believe, seek, ask, and come, which would be incoherent if they lacked any real capacity to respond (John 5:40; Matthew 23:37). Enslavement to sin means the will is inclined toward sin and unable to save itself, not that it is non-existent or inert; otherwise commands, warnings, and judgment would be meaningless. Grace does not restore a missing will but liberates a real will from corruption, enabling it to love God rightly—so Christ was not speaking nonsense, and free will is not denied but morally impaired until healed by grace.

 

[TedT]

Grace does not restore a missing will but liberates a real will from corruption,

The will in a sinner is not missing as you suppose I contend but it is enslaved, just like the sinners of Romans 1:18+ who know the truth but suppress it for wickedness and exchange the truth for a lie because they are enslaved and addicted to evil and cannot control their evil desires.

We are called to repent to prove to us that we cannot repent without seeking Christ and His grace and to prove to the sinful elect to come out from among the reprobate world as they will never, they can't, repent having sinned the unforgivable sin so they can't save themselves and by eternally scorning YHWH as a false god and a liar, eschewing HIS salvation essentially forbidding Him to ever save them, they seal their doom.

 

[FreeInChrist]

The will in a sinner is not missing as you suppose I contend but it is enslaved, just like the sinners of Romans 1:18+ who know the truth but suppress it for wickedness and exchange the truth for a lie because they are enslaved and addicted to evil and cannot control their evil desires.

We are called to repent to prove to us that we cannot repent without seeking Christ and His grace and to prove to the sinful elect to come out from among the reprobate world as they will never, they can't, repent having sinned the unforgivable sin so they can't save themselves and by eternally scorning YHWH as a false god and a liar, eschewing HIS salvation essentially forbidding Him to ever save them, they seal their doom.

Wrong