Are vessels of wrath able to become vessels of mercy?

[mikesw]

I would say from the Old Testament, although I tend to use the term "Jewish Scriptures." The distinction between the Old and New Testaments does not exist as bodies of literature when Paul writes.

Thanks. I was just checking with you since you at least partly would encounter the topic of wrath.

 

[Swordman]

I stick with what I said.

I would assume that. Just remember this simple principle - The broader the context for interpretation, the less likely you are to be in error.

The job of the exegete is to determine the best meaning of the text, not to defend a theological position.

 

[brightfame52]

I would assume that. Just remember this simple principle - The broader the context for interpretation, the less likely you are to be in error.

The job of the exegete is to determine the best meaning of the text, not to defend a theological position.

I stick with what I said

 

[Swordman]

I stick with what I said

ok. Can you give an exegetical argument for your position?

 

[TedT]

Jn 3:18...Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, [since he is a vessel of mercy] but whoever does not believe [is a vessel of wrath and] has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

 

[brightfame52]

ok. Can you give an exegetical argument for your position?

Thread 'Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?'

Nov 29, 2025

The answer to the question is an absolutely yes ! Many scriptures indicate that, if we receive them honestly. Heres one that teaches it by antithesis 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

This statement presupposes that God has appointed some to wrath, that word appointed tithémi also means destined, to decree one to be subject to wrath,

All whom God did not choose in Christ and to obtain Salvation by Him, He destined, appointed, decreed them to wrath. This is a work of God, and as it is...

• brightfame52
• Replies: 122
• Forum: Soteriology- The Doctrine of Salvation

 

[Swordman]

Thread 'Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?'

Nov 29, 2025

The answer to the question is an absolutely yes ! Many scriptures indicate that, if we receive them honestly. Heres one that teaches it by antithesis 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

This statement presupposes that God has appointed some to wrath, that word appointed tithémi also means destined, to decree one to be subject to wrath,

All whom God did not choose in Christ and to obtain Salvation by Him, He destined, appointed, decreed them to wrath. This is a work of God, and as it is...

• brightfame52
• Replies: 122
• Forum: Soteriology- The Doctrine of Salvation

So I took a look at your short statement. I see two issues (so far):

The statement does not presuppose that God has appoint some to wrath. In fact, the Bible is quite clear elsewhere that all are under sin and thus wrath at some point in their lives (Eph 2:3; Rom. 1:18-32, etc.). In fact, the only thing that can be stated here is that we are not appointed to wrath because we are in Christ.

Second, not every appointment implies a pretemporal election for individuals. TITHEMI can be used for a temporal appointment. For example, the apostles were appointed by Jesus to go a bear fruit (John 15:16). This was not a pretemporal appoint, but one that took place at the choosing of the disciples. Likewise, Paul was chosen for service to Christ because he proved faithful (1 Tim. 1:12). Appointments are often covenantal as well.

We cannot conclude that all appointments are pretemporal elections. Often they are God's activities within time.

 

[brightfame52]

The statement does not presuppose that God has appoint some to wrath.

Lol yes it does

So I took a look at your short statement. I see two issues (so far):

The statement does not presuppose that God has appoint some to wrath. In fact, the Bible is quite clear elsewhere that all are under sin and thus wrath at some point in their lives (Eph 2:3; Rom. 1:18-32, etc.). In fact, the only thing that can be stated here is that we are not appointed to wrath because we are in Christ.

Second, not every appointment implies a pretemporal election for individuals. TITHEMI can be used for a temporal appointment. For example, the apostles were appointed by Jesus to go a bear fruit (John 15:16). This was not a pretemporal appoint, but one that took place at the choosing of the disciples. Likewise, Paul was chosen for service to Christ because he proved faithful (1 Tim. 1:12). Appointments are often covenantal as well.

We cannot conclude that all appointments are pretemporal elections. Often they are God's activities within time.

to appoint with oneself or in one's mind: τινα εἰς ὀργήν, to decree one to be subject to wrath, 1 Thessalonians 5:9;
The esv For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
For God hath not appointed us to wrath,.... To destruction and ruin, the effect of wrath; though there are some that are vessels of wrath, fitted for destruction, of old ordained to condemnation, and who are reserved for the day of evil; but there are others who are equally children of wrath, as deserving of the wrath of God in themselves as others, who are not appointed to it; which is an instance of wonderful and distinguishing grace to them: