Did God Create Evil?
- Thread starter Foster
- Start date
e v e
Active Member
man in His original had no evil and was perfect. God said His creation was good.
That is 100% true
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Scripture says otherwise:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:6–7.
There's no way to understand this passage than literally. Yet there are many who see this and try to explain it away as something it is not or by claiming it doesn't say exactly what is written that God did create evil and He is the Author of it in creating sinful man for there is only ONE God; there is NONE like Him; and He gives His glory to NO ONE.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The word "good" in the creation narrative means "good [enough]" or "to specification."
In other words, God is declaring the 'thing' He's creating is to His specification, according to the way He desired it to be.
The word has nothing to do with "perfection" except in the sense that the thing created is according to His specification, perfect as He desired it. There is no sense of morals or morality to this word. It is moral-exclusive.
Complete
Active Member
(5) I am the LORD, and there is none else,
there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
(6) That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
(7) I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil: (i.e., God brings about disturbance - the opposite of peace, not evil as we know it)
I the LORD do all these things.
(Isa 45:5-7)
Hello Eve,
I hope this helps.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Ezek 18:20
Berean Standard Bible
The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of his father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son.
ImCo:
Delegated responsibility is a man made concept to try to reconcile the facts that we are conceived in sin but GOD is holy and cannot create sinners. But it ignores the possibility that our conception is not our creation...
I contend that we are created innocent and not in sin but after we self created ourselves as sinful by a free will rebellion against HIM, we are conceived as sinners and born on earth to fulfill our redemption or our reprobation.
Last edited:
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
I see it as God created the possibility of evil by giving his creation free will. then placing a tree in the garden, and saying the moment you eat this you will die.
e v e
Active Member
I disagree.
101G
Active Member
Correct, Evil is not "Sin". nor is Evil an imprisonment. just as the devil is not sin, but EVIL. let's see some good example, Psalms 78:42 "They remembered not his hand, nor the day when he delivered them from the enemy." Psalms 78:43 "How he had wrought his signs in Egypt, and his wonders in the field of Zoan:" Psalms 78:44 "And had turned their rivers into blood; and their floods, that they could not drink." Psalms 78:45 "He sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them." Psalms 78:46 "He gave also their increase unto the caterpiller, and their labour unto the locust." Psalms 78:47 "He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycomore trees with frost." Psalms 78:48 "He gave up their cattle also to the hail, and their flocks to hot thunderbolts." Psalms 78:49 "He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among."
God sent those EVIL Angels into Egypt. so, is God evil? no. Good is just the opposite of evil, to a means. both are in the economy of God to used as he see fit.
another example, lying is a sin, correct. for God hats sin... right. scripture, Proverbs 6:16 "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:" Proverbs 6:17 "A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood," Proverbs 6:18 "An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief," Proverbs 6:19 "A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."
a lying tongue, Psalms 101:7 "He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight." well then, why was God having a conversation with the devil in the book of Job? see, the devil is the father of lies, but he is not SIN, but evil. and if one liusten to him without all knowledge and power, he could cause ... YOU ... to sin.
101G.
Maybe less complex as you think.
Consider a couple of questions -
1. When God created the angels, did He foreknew some of them (among the devil) would fall from grace?
If you think the answer is yes, God foreknew, then why did He created them after all ?
2. When God create A&E, did He foreknew they would fall?
If you think the answer is yes, God foreknew, then why did God created us after all ?
Does this make God the author of sin?
Of course not.
In fact we read in Revelation about Jesus being called the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Meaning, before God created, knowing everything in advance, God the Father and God the Son agreed to the plan of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus who would restore everything.
Can you feel the love?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Good for you.
YES! No evil was created in anyone in their creation...GOD is holy and cannot create sinners by any means nor do evil.
but ImCo, when GOD said it was all very good a not good which HE created had already been fixed...Adam being alone. Adam looking for his mate among the animals shows there was a not good between them over GOD's choice of Eve for him. Before Adam ate he was already naked showing a not good in his moral state as eating did not cause his moral nakedness but only opened his eyes to it and caused him shame. Also at the time HE claimed everything was very good, the serpent and other demons were already fallen waiting for their chance to attack.
So very good had to mean good for HIS redemptive purposes, not morally good. So, yes I AGREE, everyone was created morally innocent with a free will to choose righteousness or evil but well before the garden story. By the time of the garden, the fall was over and some (those who never had faith in HIS name) had sinned the unforgivable sin of rebuking HIM as a liar and a false god and were condemned already and others (believers who sinned) who had already put their faith in HIM as their only GOD and saviour from sin rebelled over HIS call to come out from among the reprobate so they could be damned. This is mentioned in Jn 3:18...
In my Christian opinion, HE did not because HE had no reason to create some only for them to end in hell when HIS obvious motivation for our creation was to marry us in a holy, heavenly, marriage.
ImCo, at our creation, HE only knew the possibility of the fall taking place but by creating everyone able to become HIS Bride with a free will (no innate or created impulse to evil or good in us) HE only knew the possibility of evil ever being chosen and planned accordingly.
For those who might choose by their free to rebuke HIM as a liar and a false god thus making it impossible to ever fulfill HIS desire to marry HIM, HE planned damnation, eternal separation from HIM and HIS heaven.
For those who did accept HIM as their GOD and saviour by faith, not proof, but who might stumble over HIS commands especially the need for them to repudiate their friends who might have fallen into reprobation, HE planned their redemption and the Son was chosen to be the propitiation for the sins of believers.
Believers who would sin would never be condemned but those who would never believe were condemned already, whoever they were. Thus it could be written after their fall: Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. Jn 3:18.
This also implies that before we were sown into mankind, Matt 13:36-39, we existed and chose our own FATE by faith, an unproven hope, even though GOD chose our earthly LIVES as predetermined to bring sinful believers to redemption, salvation and sanctification the best way possible.
e v e
Active Member
that is the problem... adam was not created alone...
Adam's female was his own core, who God took out so they would be together...as an other, not Self... but they were not creature animals... but in glorified form, not the current corrupted body caused by the fall.
for one thing, they had no flesh with then a soul inside...
for npsh is the hebrew word, based on the term meaning body and also meaning soul...
after the fall that was not the case, and actually, the heathen greek theology has psyche or psuche, which has no body! But God's version of course meant we were NOT without a body... In Greek theology 'souls' of that type are entities, a daemon as Plato called it... and the flesh is not the same.... this change in psyche reflects their theology in their own language. the greek theology had entities but no concept of the body in terms of nepsh. its that old commentators and others maybe intentionally, blur the contexts and the realms... not distinguishing in translation, attributes of the satanic nations of demons and attributes of eden paradise, thus, they view psyche and nsph as interchangeable, a big mistake.. of course now in fallen situation we do resemble the flesh + psyche but at the change/rapture we will be restored to our original nature... so that fallen situation will not continue.
Hebrew has no such concept for us as a soul without body and uses npsh to reflect BOTH as ONE being.
For me, very good had nothing to do with redemption. It was perfect and for its purpose and all having His Signature upon it, His type of Nature, which satan was jealous of and wanted, hence the fall.
Yes thank you... Of course He is not evil or did he create that... Also, the greek concept of Lack as evil, which augustine espoused, is incorrect completely, but thats a different reply if you are interested. It was a way to excuse God because Augustine never understood what Evil truly is. I suspect you will not agree with all of this but please do share what you do relate to...
Only after the fall, Christ began to get us out, doing many things, throughout the old and new testament, when appearing to His people. Since the fall began following Christ, after all. a
Adam would not have looked among animals for his mate before the fall nor needed to...nor did he lack anything and neither was he alone without a mate.. For in God's version, He is covering of Male and Male of Female, and the males are in His image and the females in the image of His Feminine spirit. So the family context is important, our tribe, male and Female in their image.
And christ as leader of all the sons and His Spirit as the love and comfort of us.
Innocence is Eden Nature, His sweet nature... and of course doesnt mean lack of smartness... but we lost our gifts and attributes ..talents (=buried them in this dirt not made by God!) And that is what is meant by lost of innocence. Man Ruled the lower animals...he was not like them nor wanted to be. That is a scribal error, among others. Innocence but means simply, the evil realm, of serpents and demons has NOT conquered eden and plundered her!... Adam betrayed God and here we are in nature of the evil realm, matter and flesh... on an earth not made by God and this body not made by God.
This is the Death realm God warned of. Sin and Death, the carnal mind and its fleshbody.
God's realm, a real place called Eden, is of the nature of the Spirit of Life. Soon the sons will
restore Eden with Christ and rule with Christ and be restored the things the satanic realm stole.
e v e
Active Member
the evil realm, caused by satan?, again I do not know,
has a different consciousness or mind than souls of God do...
its obvious, for example, a christian consciousness, loving christ,
is not the same as the demonic evil realm consciousness which wars Christ....
those demons are deformed... reflecting their own nature and
type of mind..
Such the term nations in scripture NEVER refers to us!
That is about them, the evil realm....
For us, we are tribes... and this tangle
has not been sorted out... (of psyche, npsh, tribe etc.)
because few want to even
consider what God said about the heathen evil realm (in the other reality)
...and where eden was in other reality..
eden was not on this earth... we can see this in enoch and if properly translated
in His words...
and in rev where the sons are restoring eden's cubic dimensions... (so our Eden land is not round nor circling nor expanding!)
and the same in enoch where he shows us she is not even in this solar system...
but the vatican (representing sumer and its fish religion) made sure to confuse everything, prohibit books,
limit which books we are allowed to read and which ones are canonical,
a form of bullying that persists to this day.
not blaming poor catholics...they simply do not know what a mess things are...
and of course most early 'theology' was decided by the vatican..
something the reformation has not resolved...
which means it sort of remains attached to the catholic tree
in ways it does not even know about.
has a different consciousness or mind than souls of God do...
its obvious, for example, a christian consciousness, loving christ,
is not the same as the demonic evil realm consciousness which wars Christ....
those demons are deformed... reflecting their own nature and
type of mind..
Such the term nations in scripture NEVER refers to us!
That is about them, the evil realm....
For us, we are tribes... and this tangle
has not been sorted out... (of psyche, npsh, tribe etc.)
because few want to even
consider what God said about the heathen evil realm (in the other reality)
...and where eden was in other reality..
eden was not on this earth... we can see this in enoch and if properly translated
in His words...
and in rev where the sons are restoring eden's cubic dimensions... (so our Eden land is not round nor circling nor expanding!)
and the same in enoch where he shows us she is not even in this solar system...
but the vatican (representing sumer and its fish religion) made sure to confuse everything, prohibit books,
limit which books we are allowed to read and which ones are canonical,
a form of bullying that persists to this day.
not blaming poor catholics...they simply do not know what a mess things are...
and of course most early 'theology' was decided by the vatican..
something the reformation has not resolved...
which means it sort of remains attached to the catholic tree
in ways it does not even know about.
e v e
Active Member
Eden had no need of expansion of space, as in that evil mind concept
above... for it was perfect and needed no evolution, what would it evolve to if it was perfect already right?
And it needed not to expand as it was complete.
Further, we never needed to procreate as lower animals in eden...
for souls literally stepped out of God when
He spoke us into being...
no need for animal pain, struggle, sweat, childbirth, death, illness,
all that being basically evil realm concepts having nothing to do with Eden,
which is why God said that was DEATH, warning adam.
above... for it was perfect and needed no evolution, what would it evolve to if it was perfect already right?
And it needed not to expand as it was complete.
Further, we never needed to procreate as lower animals in eden...
for souls literally stepped out of God when
He spoke us into being...
no need for animal pain, struggle, sweat, childbirth, death, illness,
all that being basically evil realm concepts having nothing to do with Eden,
which is why God said that was DEATH, warning adam.
e v e
Active Member
some evil esau just 'added' the concept that God's souls are creatures.
And also that God punishes us or tortures Christ on the cross.
None of this evil came from God!!
God wants us back in His realm, in our land...
hell was a concept of the evil realm, to bully us with its fake theology
by who knows what 'inspired demonic scribes.'
And also that God punishes us or tortures Christ on the cross.
None of this evil came from God!!
God wants us back in His realm, in our land...
hell was a concept of the evil realm, to bully us with its fake theology
by who knows what 'inspired demonic scribes.'
e v e
Active Member
thank you for replying to me... generally I'm just ignored in this and another forum, since 2015 totally ignored.
