Satan and his Lies

[Studyman]

@Studyman

After God created both angels and man, he left them to themselves, to the power of their free will, and we all know the end of that.

It is foolish to continue with you. Nevertheless, this lie needs to be exposed. God never left Eve or Lucifer to themselves or to the power of their own free will. They both had God's Law that was given to them to limit the power of their free will, to protect them from it. They both knew and understood the Law. Just as Noah and Gabriel knew and understood the Law. One believed God, the other didn't. Now you preach, as evidenced by your last question, that it is God's Fault Eve didn't believe God, because she wasn't "First "born of God". Therefore it is impossible to believe God.

" NO, "no man" has the power to believe God on his own power without first being born of God."

Your peaching that EVE "couldn't" believe God because God withheld from her from the power to believe Him, is wicked. And not supported in scriptures at all.

I'm not lying about your preaching, I'm replying to your own worlds. Paul exposes this foolishness.

Rom. 10: 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then "shall they call on him" in whom they have not believed? and "how shall they "believe in him"" "of whom they have not heard"? and "how shall they hear" without a preacher?

If you would stop preaching from the imagination of your own heart, and turn away from the religions of this world, and place your trust in what is actually written, you would become renewed in the spirit of your mind. But of your own free will, you choose to adopt Calvinism. You should ask yourself "why".

 

[Studyman]

The Law of Moses condemns every Jew (by revelation) and Gentile (by conscience) to death, because we have failed to keep its righteousness, which is necessary to stand before God without being condemned to the lake of fire, which is the second death. . Who could keep every precept of Moses with a perfect heart to fulfill perfect righteousness? Not man, but Jesus Christ alone.

Another lie. God knew from the foundation of the world, that His children, like any child, would fall before learning to walk. Jesus was slain from the foundation of the World for this very purpose. Paul tells us why the penalty of sin was so steep, death, if you would only believe him.

Rom. 7: 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good "made death unto me"? God forbid.

That means no Red, The Law of God He gave to Moses, that is holy, and just, and good, was "NOT" to condemn every Jew and Gentile to Death. You preach it did, "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, preaches that it did, But Paul tells you right here, that NO, God Law was NOT created to make Paul dead. God forbid. So why then, is the wages of Sin "Death" then? Paul tells you.

But sin, that it might appear sin, "working death in me by that which is good"; that sin by the commandment might become "exceeding sinful".

The wages of Sin being death, is there so that men will understand how exceedingly wicked it is to reject God's Judgment. It's really really evil and wicked to know God's Law, but to exalt yourself above it, and reject it of your own free will, like Adam and Lucifer. This is why Jesus told those men who He healed, "No go and Sin no more".

those who blow of God's Laws as "Beggarly Element", Rudiments of this world no different than Pagan rituals and traditions, are super wicked. Exceedingly evil. But they don't know it, because as promised, God has given them over to the lusts of their own flesh. (Rom. 1: 21-24) God sent His Own Son to atone for the sins of the repentant. But those who blow off God's Law as irrelevant, of their own free will, like Adam and Lucifer and Sodom did, That is really really bad.

This is what Paul is teaching about the Law and the steep penalty for rejecting it.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman BTW, God didn't blame the devil for Adam and Eves sin.

I know this was written to civic, so I will let him answer his own post. I want to take one sentence you said and just give proof that God did curse the serpent for being used of the devil himself in deceiving Eve. Actually God pronounces four different judgements on all four that were guilty.

Genesis 3: 12-19~"And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; (the devil) it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

BTW, God didn't blame the devil for Adam and Eves sin.

2nd Corinthians 11:3​

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

It is foolish to continue with you.

And you do no think others are not thinking the same about you? You might be one of the most deceived person I have ever encounter. Your delusion is very strong.

God never left Eve or Lucifer to themselves or to the power of their own free will.

Then I ask you this question: why did they sinned? He could have prevented it if He so desire to do so. They sinned as the fallen angles did, because God alone is immutable, and cannot be tempted to sin ~ in spite of what you think man is capable of without God securing their salvation from death and condemnation. Your opinion of man is against the scriptures, much higher than Christ knew about man!

John 2:24,25​

“But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.”

Of course he left them to themselves and we see the results of doing so. He elected some of he angels, because he knew that if he did not do so, then they too would have left their own estate in which they were created in. There is so much of the word of God that you reject ~ and what you do not reject, you do not understand, which is very evident when you attempted to explain it, you just gloss over it as though you were explaining them as you did with Romans 8:1-10, etc. pitiful.

1st Timothy 5:21​

“I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.”

God never left Eve or Lucifer to themselves or to the power of their own free will. They both had God's Law that was given to them to limit the power of their free will, to protect them from it. They both knew and understood the Law.

Why are you using Eve and Lucifer as two separate entities, when you do not believe that is so? You believe that Eve's mind was Lucifer, that's deceitful if you ask me. An easy way to deceived young believers.

Also, God only gave Adam and Eve one simple commandment to keep, and placed them in a beautiful garden, and then left them to themselves, and we see the results of that, and not only see it but have felt the sorrows of it until this very day. Man and angels are not immutable and can be tempted to sin, and will if opportunity present itself, unless God protects them, or gives them an heart that truly fears him and the consequences of sinning.

Gabriel knew and understood the Law.

Studyman, who is Gabriel in your theology?

Just as Noah and Gabriel knew and understood the Law.

Noah FIRST found grace in the eyes of the LORD, and apart from that, he would have been no better than the ones that perished in flood. To believe otherwise is to deny the word of God and to exalt man above what the scriptures said of man.

Now you preach, as evidenced by your last question, that it is God's Fault Eve didn't believe God, because she wasn't "First "born of God". Therefore it is impossible to believe God.

Wrong as usual. God created Adam and Eve after his image, upright, without indwelling sin. There was no need of the new birth, since there were no siiners expect fallen angels whom God made no provisions for. You have trouble of being honest.

NO, "no man" has the power to believe God on his own power without first being born of God."

That is the truth of all born through Adam's posterity, that comes through his loins.

Your peaching that EVE "couldn't" believe God because God withheld from her from the power to believe Him, is wicked. And not supported in scriptures at all.

Before her fall, she knew God her Creator. God does not withhold form man believing, his depraved heart is his enemy, that was given to him by his disobedience. He did take on the image of Satan in this sense, he lost God's image as it was stolen from him by the old serpent.

Rom. 10: 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then "shall they call on him" in whom they have not believed? and "how shall they "believe in him"" "of whom they have not heard"? and "how shall they hear" without a preacher?

You have no clue as to what Paul is saying ~ Paul is speaking about one's practical salvation from ignorance to the truth of Christ's gospel. As you say...read the context from Romans 1-13! Paul was speaking concerning those who did fear God, yet lack true knowledge of Jesus Christ and the righteousness he obtained for his people, going about to establish their own righteousness. I have addressed Romans 10:1-13 before on this forum, not going through this again at the moment.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

Another lie.

So, you are saying that:

Who could keep every precept of Moses with a perfect heart to fulfill perfect righteousness? Not man, but Jesus Christ alone.

Is this a lie? If you believe this, then you sir, are still in your sins, and will died in those sins and face the lake of fire.

Acts 4:12​

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

Jesus was made a curse for his people by offering up himself ~ his perfect life of faith and obedience for our sins. No man is able to keep the law of God in thoughts, words, and deeds, no man but ONE ~ the Son of God.

So, pray to tell me what was a lie in my statement. Here is it again, word for word:

The Law of Moses condemns every Jew (by revelation) and Gentile (by conscience) to death, because we have failed to keep its righteousness, which is necessary to stand before God without being condemned to the lake of fire, which is the second death. . Who could keep every precept of Moses with a perfect heart to fulfill perfect righteousness? Not man, but Jesus Christ alone.

Rom. 7: 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good "made death unto me"? God forbid.

That means no Red, The Law of God He gave to Moses, that is holy, and just, and good, was "NOT" to condemn every Jew and Gentile to Death. You preach it did,

I'm assuming you mean that God's law was not given to condemn sinners both Jews and Gentiles. Let's look at this.

Romans 7:13​

“Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.”

Was then that which is good made death unto me?

The law against covetousness (7:7) was good, as Paul declared in the previous verse (7;12). Was Paul’s death by the commandment against lust due to the law or to his sin (7:9)? There is a conceptual sense in which law causes sin (Romans 4:15), but not in this context. The commandment did not condemn or kill Paul, but rather his lust that violated it.

God forbid.

The emphatic negative here is further evidence of Paul’s primary or exclusive design, which is to defend the Law and himself against any slanderous charges against the Law. God’s law reflects God Himself, and He does not kill unjustly. Sin by the Law is what kills.

But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good.

Sin’s violation of a good commandment does not condemn the commandment, but rather sin! What evil inside! If a holy, just, and good commandment that we assume is for salvation and that we know is for our good results in condemning us to death – we are incredibly sinful! How can something so noble and virtuous expose our sinfulness? By our depraved natures! @Studyman a truth you reject.

It was sin that condemned and killed Paul, not the Law revealing how sinful he actually was. The Law, or any commandment, is only a statement of God’s righteousness that sin violates.

The Law, by having life or death attached, exposed Paul’s wickedness and condemned him. The Law, for every individual, prepares us for needing and appreciating Jesus our Saviour ~so Paul said the law it is OUR schoolmaster! Conviction for sin is essential to properly grasp and appreciate the gospel for faith in Christ.

That sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The main design of Moses' Law, and the tenth commandment, was to aggravate the evil of sin. When something holy, just, and good brings condemnation and death, then sin is very bad. The Law makes sin sinful, rather than making the Law sinful, to answer the question (7:7). The exceeding sinfulness of sin is made clear by men breaking a holy rule they trust for life. The exceeding sinfulness of sin is made clear by men breaking a holy rule they know is good. The Law exposes our depraved wickedness by something holy, just, good, and spiritual. Holiness leads to humility, for the more we grasp of God’s holy law the more sinful we are. The word of God declares His law for our lives and is useful in driving us to Christ, for until and unless we have the same conviction and guilt of Paul, how can we assume his salvation?

I'm coming back to finish

 

[civic]

I believe the devil is real, I just don't believe the teaching of this worlds religions you have adopted concerning it. And no doubt there were immortal angels with free will, that rejected the boundaries and limitations given them from God, and sinned, just as Adam and Eve rejected the boundaries and limitation for their free will given to them by God, And sinned.

So who "deceived the angels that sinned"? Whose voice did Lucifer listen to? In God's Kingdom where the Angels lived, who was the "prince of that world" the ruler of the darkness in the high places in the Kingdom Lucifer was kicked out of, "Because he sinned".

Wasn't Lucifer and Eve both created a perfect being with free will??

Ez. 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
"every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

Who is this? Adam and Eve yes? Or Lucifer?

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Who said this in their heart? Adam and Eve did, Yes? Or Lucifer?

How can you say that Adam and Eve didn't choose, of her own free will, to do, from the heart, the exact same thing "the devil" did.

Now you and Red and "Many" who come in Christ's Name, calling Jesus Lord, Lord, say it wasn't something from inside Eve that cause her to reject God's Law, because she was created perfect, it was the "devil" from without that caused her sin. That is your judgment BTW, God didn't blame the devil for Adam and Eves sin.

So who caused Lucifer's sin then? Since he was perfect in his ways from the day he was created, just like Adam and Eve. Since he was in the kingdom of God with Gabriel and other righteous angels where there was no sin, just like Adam and Eve. How is it Lucifer sinned? If Eve was not defiled from within, but from without, as you guys preach, where did the iniquity come from in Lucifer.

You guys won't even discuss it. There is no seeking to know God with this world's religions, the only thing you seek is self justification. Just like Adam and just like Eve. But not like Abel or Noah or Abraham.



Here is undeniable Truth. A being with Free Will must have boundaries and limitations or death and misery and destruction will swallow their kingdom.

Even God, the Greatest Power Free Will to ever exists, places limitations on His Own Free will, on Himself, for the good of His Kingdom. He is a Just God. No one makes Him be a just God, HE "Chooses" of His own free will, to be Just. He is a Merciful God. He doesn't have to be, and what could we do about it if HE chose not to be? But HE is Merciful because HE chooses, of His Own Free Will, to be Merciful.

God loved Adam and Eve, and created them after His own image, to have Free will. And HE gave them "limitations and boundaries" to this free will to keep them from destroying themselves with the potential for Lust that comes with free will. A Lust that will destroy the entire Kingdom if it is not ruled over. Lucifer was also given limitations to his free will. He, like Eve, rejected it, from his own free will, from the lust of his own heart.

As a free will being, we have the ability to "choose" to submit to the Limitations God created for us, or reject it. Lucifer rejected it. Adam and Eve rejected it. Abel and Noah didn't reject it.

This isn't a man-made religion, it's the teaching of God to His People who seek to know Him. There is someone on this forum who understands what I am saying, because they too, are interested in more than just self justification, like Adam and Eve. "It was the serpent God placed in the garden that caused me to reject God's Love" not the lusts of my own mind. It was the woman God gave me, that caused me to reject God's Love, not the lust that was in my own mind".

But God teaches differently. Men are defiled by things from within, not without.

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

Answer the question, "Where did this lust in Lucifer come from"? The answer is, the exact same place the same lust in Eve came from.

Evil did not exist before the fall of the devil and his angels.

 

[Affinity]

God is always honest with us. He always tells the truth, even when the truth is hard for us to accept. God “does not lie.” In fact, “it is impossible for God to lie,” He is the foundation and the source of truth. There is nothing artificial, phony, or misleading about him.

Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

By contrast, Satan is always dishonest. He constantly twists the truth, even when his words sound safe and compelling on the surface.

Jesus said this about the devil, “There is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” John 8:44

In the Garden of Eden, Satan deceived Adam and Eve, and ever since he’s been doing his best to create a deceptive environment where “evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.” 2 Tim 3:13

Jesus tells us of a big wide road many people travel, and it could also be called the “LIE,” for it is a road based on Satan’s misinformation. “Enter through the narrow gate,” Jesus warned. “For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it” Matt 7:13-14

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman BTW, God didn't blame the devil for Adam and Eves sin.

YESSSSS. That is the point of my entire reply. God DID NOT blame an evil, an adversary, "another voice", "from without" of the mind and heart of Adam and Eve for their Sin. They, "of their own free will", given to them at creation, "CHOSE" to reject God's Law that HE gave them.

God wants men to "Choose" HIM of their own free will, Like Noah did.

They could have used their own free will, that God gave them, to "Choose" to "Yield themselves" to Him and not the world around them.

But they didn't. Of their own free will given to them at creation, they "Chose" to reject God. Just as Lucifer did. Then when they realized their Sin, the "chose" to "Justify themselves". "It wasn't my fault". It was the talking snake "You" created. It was the woman "You gave to me".

I have come to understand that this is the lesson God wants men to garner from this story. "to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted".

You and I and Civic have been taught by the religious voices in this world God placed us in, since our youth, and I believed for a long time, that Adam and Eve wasn't created with the free will capacity to "choose" evil. That they were created perfect, and therefore, in our minds that means they "couldn't" choose evil. That it was the devil from without that caused her to be evil.

But God didn't blame the devil. You do, Eve did, Civic does, I did in times past, this world's entire religious system does. You flat out said it was an evil from without, not from within, that deceived Eve. But God didn't. God blames Eve, punishes Eve for Eve's free will choice to reject Him in favor of her own lusts.

So that of itself, is us rejecting God's Judgment in favor of our own. Exalting ourselves above God, of our own free will. No one made you believe and preach to others that Eve wasn't defiled from things within her heart. Jesus even told you men are defiled from "Evil thoughts from within". But you "Choose", of your own free will, not to believe Him where Adam is concerned. And when it is pointed out to you, you choose of your own free will, to justify your choices.

That is us saying in our own heart, by our own free will, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

You and Civic and I were wrong to choose, of our own free will, to reject God's Judgment of Adam and Eve, that they were tempted when they were drawn away of their own lust and enticed. Like God tells us. Choosing instead to blame, as you still do, the evil that was from "Without" Adam and Eve's heart.

There are actually other voices in the world that God placed me in, that preach to the entire world that because of Adam's free will choice to reject God, I am now created "totally depraved". That God made me, from birth, have a "sin nature" because Adam sinned. We should, of our own free will, stop filling our heart with this wickedness.

This is why I asked Civic the question, "Who enticed Lucifer" to, of His Own perfect free will, sin against God? Who was his talking snake in the Kingdom HE was thrown out of? Where did the Lust that enticed him come from? The truth is, the same free will spirit that enticed Lucifer, also enticed Adam and Eve and also entice us to be "drawn away of our own lust".

So I won't be enticed from within, to listen to any "other voice" in the garden God placed me in. And God has given me the ability to "choose" Words to live by.

This is why God blamed Adam, for Adams sin, and blamed Lucifer, for Lucifer sins, and is the reason why the Christ inspires it to be written, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad".

And again;

"And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth "according to every man's work", pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

And again;

"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, "according to their deeds."

And again;

"If thou sayest, Behold, "we knew it not"; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man "according to his works"?

And lastly, the Christ Himself. "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man "according as his work shall be".

This is because "every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed".

This was true with the angels that sinned, it was true with Adam and Eve who sinned, and it's true with you and I.

It's also true with Noah and Abraham, Caleb and Shadrack, Daniel and Zacharias.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

YESSSSS. That is the point of my entire reply.

That was your quote to civic. That was my fault for not putting it in a quote box. I was quoting you. The rest of my post shows that to be so.

That was my fault, sorry.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

They could have used their own free will

After the fall of Adam and Eve, man is born into thsi world from Adam, in bondage to sin and the devil! There is no such thing as man having a "free" will. Sinners are dead spiritually speaking, so, in possible for them to do spiritual acts with a so-called free will, impossible.

Romans 9:16​

“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”

I'll be happy to discuss this doctrine with you.

 

[Studyman]

Evil did not exist before the fall of the devil and his angels.

Really, that is your answer to my questions? Where is this written in Scriptures?

How then did some, not all of the Angels in heaven with God, become evil? Where did this "evil " come from that was found in them, if Evil didn't exist as you preach? Were they not also created perfect, with Free will?

Are you saying then that an angel created evil in heaven with God, out of nothing, without God's knowledge?? Did God also forget to Warn the Angels of some danger from "Without", like you imply in your preaching that God forgot to warn Eve against?

If they sinned, that means God gave them Laws, same as Adam. Why did God give angels Laws, were they not created perfect, like Adam and Eve?

Where is the talking snake or deceiving spirit that enticed Angel's to Sin who were in heaven with God, where, according to your religion, NO EVIL Existed? Who then enticed Lucifer to sin?

Will you answer my questions, honestly engage? Or by your own free will, choose to deflect away from the discussion at hand?

 

[civic]

Really, that is your answer to my questions? Where is this written in Scriptures?

How then did some, not all of the Angels in heaven with God, become evil? Where did this "evil " come from that was found in them, if Evil didn't exist as you preach? Were they not also created perfect, with Free will?

Are you saying then that an angel created evil in heaven with God, out of nothing, without God's knowledge?? Did God also forget to Warn the Angels of some danger from "Without", like you imply in your preaching that God forgot to warn Eve against?

If they sinned, that means God gave them Laws, same as Adam. Why did God give angels Laws, were they not created perfect, like Adam and Eve?

Where is the talking snake or deceiving spirit that enticed Angel's to Sin who were in heaven with God, where, according to your religion, NO EVIL Existed? Who then enticed Lucifer to sin?

Will you answer my questions, honestly engage? Or by your own free will, choose to deflect away from the discussion at hand?

sin and evil are a result of the fall- they did not exist beforehand. Everything God created was GOOD- not evil or sinful.