Did God ( Christ ) die ?

[GeneZ]

Was that a yes or a no ? God asks that your yes be yes and your no be no.

Why the diverting ?

Is this a game to you ?

If I am having the gift to teach?

And, you say I do not?

Should it matter?

If you say I do?

And, I do not?

Should it matter?

I have been trained and graduated with honors from a Bible college.

A Bible college that I had a dream about ten years before being taken there to visit...
Which did not exist ten years earlier when I was given the dream that changed my life.

What ever I am?
I am by the grace of God.

 

[Diserner]

When we've been blessed with much knowledge we must be on guard for pride in that achievement.

 

[GeneZ]

We all have to agree with the way you understand scripture and your logic or we're wrong. Sure, whatever you think mate. See you on the Day.

Have a good one.

That has been an ongoing problem here.

 

[GeneZ]

When we've been blessed with much knowledge we must be on guard for pride in that achievement.

I have been crushed... Turned upside down.. and emptied out.

In a way that would have landed another in a mental institution if it were not for the gift I was sovereignly chosen by God to have.
It was either keep going and growing. Or die on the vine.

It gave me deep meaning to having to work out my salvation in fear and trembling...

I would never trade it for anything in the world,
but never wish it upon another unless God makes that choice.

 

[GeneZ]

Why would Jesus tell Nicodemus (or anyone for that matter) that he needed to be born again
If no such thing was available to be had by anyone when he was told?

​

Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.​

He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. ​

For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.” John 3:1-2​

Nicodemus was doing a reconnaissance mission for members of the certain members of the Sanhedrin to find out what Jesus really was.
They only could know he was a teacher from God.

Jesus told him how it could be made known who and what he was.
"You must be born again."

At that time?
Peter was already born again.
As the evidenced in Matthew 16:13-17.

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, ​

“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”​

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, ​

Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed ​

to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.​

​

Peter had a "spiritual moment" before Pentecost took place....
He was born again! Why?
For he had believed Jesus is the Christ!

Some here are telling me that Peter was not regenerated?
A spiritually dead man does not say what Peter said to Jesus.

Regeneration was from Adam to Pentecost.

Baptism of the indwelling Holy Spirit to accompany regeneration began at Pentecost.


grace and peace ...............

 

[sethproton]

He wasn't waiting to be made spiritually alive (born again), he already had a human spirit which is how he could comprehend spiritual matters and relate to God.

It's bad enough when believers confuse regeneration with the baptism of the Spirit but now you are confusing Christ's work on the Cross with regeneration. They were waiting for the Christ. He came, He died, He conquered (death) and rose again taking OT saints with Him. They were already saved. Try being saved without being born again.

It's no wonder the Church can't keep back the tide of evil that is flaunting itself in the daylight today.

Yes, we are all made n God's Spirit. But to be bornagain, we need to be indwelt by God. We need both.
By your reasoning, the disciples did not have this humman spirit you talk about because ere unable to understand Jesys without asking questions about what He meant

 

[sethproton]

Genesis 27:28

May God give you heaven’s dew
and earth’s richness—
an abundance of grain and new wine.​

Do you really believe dew comes from the Heaven Jesus is in?

in the Bible "heaven" has several meanings.

 

[GeneZ]

in the Bible "heaven" has several meanings.

That was the point being made. Good to see at least one able to see it..

 

[GeneZ]

Yes, we are all made n God's Spirit. But to be born again, we need to be indwelt by God. We need both.

That applies to the Church age believer, and its why we are called "a new creation in Christ." 2 Corinthians 5:17

We are not same as all the OT, born again, believers.

We are a New Creation. Something new and different than the OT believers.

The Greek word translated "new' does not mean God made us to be like new again.
It means something new that had never existed before.

grace and peace......

 

[Diserner]

Who here loves Jesus.

 

[sethproton]

What's your point? I have already said the new birth is regeneration.

It is crucial to salvation for without it you cannot comprehend spiritual matters and are not saved. Being born of the Spirit is what takes us from being spiritually dead to being spiritually alive. We are born body and soul, we need to be born a second time, ie. spiritually. That birth of a human spirit is being born again. The Holy Spirit begets a human spirit. (Jn.3:6) It is very simple to understand.

The problem Civic, is you seem to think that all those believers in the OT were dead to God as they spoke His words and lived in relationship with Him but Jesus made it quite clear to Nicodemus if you want to be in that relationship, to know Him and to be a part of the Kingdom, you must be born again. Every OT believer was born again. It is the barest minimum one needs for salvation.

How you cannot see what John 3:6 is saying beats me. I can only repeat what Jesus said to Nicodemus. You consider yourself a teacher of the word yet do not understand what is this most basic necessity?

born again to see(experience) the kingdom Understanding parts of the kingdom does not save. Jesus was telling Nicdemus a truth unknown to OT saints, "you belie in God, believe in Me."

 

[GeneZ]

Who here loves Jesus.

Only while we're here?

Why not all the time?

 

[GeneZ]

born again to see(experience) the kingdom Understanding parts of the kingdom does not save. Jesus was telling Nicdemus a truth unknown to OT saints, "you belie in God, believe in Me."

That is what you have been believing is true... You are not unique in that regard.

The Bible when seen in its context says a different account. That is what you are missing.
Many believe what you do. And, many at one time in history believed that the world was "obviously" flat.

Many agreed with each other.

 

[synergy]

Why would Jesus tell Nicodemus (or anyone for that matter) that he needed to be born again
If no such thing was available to be had by anyone when he was told?

​

Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.​

He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. ​

For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.” John 3:1-2​

Nicodemus was doing a reconnaissance mission for members of the certain members of the Sanhedrin to find out what Jesus really was.
They only could know he was a teacher from God.

Jesus told him how it could be made known who and what he was.
"You must be born again."

At that time?
Peter was already born again.
As the evidenced in Matthew 16:13-17.

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, ​

“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”​

​

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, ​

Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”​

​

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”​

​

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”​

​

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed ​

to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.​

​

Peter had a "spiritual moment" before Pentecost took place....
He was born again! Why?
For he had believed Jesus is the Christ!

Some here are telling me that Peter was not regenerated?
A spiritually dead man does not say what Peter said to Jesus.

Regeneration was from Adam to Pentecost.

Baptism of the indwelling Holy Spirit to accompany regeneration began at Pentecost.


grace and peace ...............

So when do you think Nicodemus was born again? It wasn't recorded as happening in John 3. So if it did happen it was later.

Only by the Holy Spirit can you be regenerated and the Holy Spirit was poured out only at Pentecost. Once Christ ascended into Heaven, only then did he pour out the Holy Spirit to all believers, not before. If there's another way to be regenerated other than by the Holy Spirit being poured out, then by all means do tell us.

Therefore, regeneration happened at Pentecost for all believers. The Holy Spirit fell on Gentiles a short time later.

 

[synergy]

Who here loves Jesus.

I'm positive we all do.

 

[GeneZ]

So when do you think Nicodemus was born again?

It had to be sometime before Pentecost took place.

​

Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. ​

Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he ​

feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came ​

and took the body away. He was accompanied by Nicodemus, ​

the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. ​

​

Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy​

-five pounds. Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with ​

the spices, in strips of linen. ​

​

This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs." John 19:38-40​

​

Pretty neat... huh?

grace and peace ...

 

[synergy]

It had to be sometime before Pentecost took place.

​

Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. ​

Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he ​

feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came ​

and took the body away. He was accompanied by Nicodemus, ​

the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. ​

​

Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy​

-five pounds. Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with ​

the spices, in strips of linen. ​

​

This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs." John 19:38-40​

​

Pretty neat... huh?

grace and peace ...

It was definitely a very "neat" thing that Nicodemus did for Jesus. There were many great acts of faith manifested by OT Saints before Pentecost, that's for sure, but there is still no explicit mention of regeneration even then. There's no doubt that the Holy Spirit was with believers before Pentecost. The problem is that the Holy Spirit was not yet in believers before Pentecost. See John 14:17.

This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him because he abides with you, and he will be in you.

That's because only by the Holy Spirit can you be regenerated (Holy Spirit in you) and the Holy Spirit was poured out only at Pentecost. Once Christ ascended into Heaven, only then did he pour out the Holy Spirit to all believers, not before. If there's another way to be regenerated other than by the Holy Spirit being poured out, then by all means do tell us.

Therefore, regeneration happened at Pentecost for all believers. The Holy Spirit fell on Gentiles a short time later.

 

[Rockson]

It had to be sometime before Pentecost took place.

​

Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. ​

Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he ​

feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came ​

and took the body away. He was accompanied by Nicodemus, ​

the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. ​

​

Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy​

-five pounds. Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with ​

the spices, in strips of linen. ​

​

This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs." John 19:38-40​

​

Pretty neat... huh?

grace and peace ...

That's it? That's what you've got?

Gene look the passage you've quoted doesn't say ANYTHING even about what Nicodemus spiritual state was except that he did something nice for Christ after he died.

 

[synergy]

That's it? That's what you've got?

Gene look the passage you've quoted doesn't say ANYTHING even about what Nicodemus spiritual state was except that he did something nice for Christ after he died.

Brace yourself for the Ad Hominems that @GeneZ frequently spews out whenever we do not automatically believe his speculations and his presuppositions.

 

[Rockson]

To be born again wasn't occuring to anyone until after the resurrection of Christ. Really it isn't a hard difficult question to answer at all. God's Spirit or presence was said to abide in the temple made by human hands.....the physical temple in the Holy of Holies. When Jesus on the cross said it was finished, The Bible says over at the temple the curtain ripped from TOP to BOTTOM. symbolizing God's Spirit was leaving temple's of tents or buildings but would now take up his abode in the hearts of men thus making possible ...BORN AGAIN.

At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. Matt 27:52