Did God ( Christ ) die ?

[Dizerner]

If you think that is an expectation of wanting someone to ask? "Houston we have a problem."

Well, Houston, it seems the problem is on your end.

Since Jesus was "chiding" his pride in claiming to be something he was not qualified for.

Jesus was the "Teacher of Israel."

NOT Nicodemus.

 

[civic]

You see it that way. Two things are happening. Regeneration AND Renewal. Together (by God's grace) they place us (the Church) in a unique position whereby God grants us eternal life, His unique life which is to be found in Christ.

Stop trying to justify your position and start thinking through what the scriptures are saying. Jesus expected Nicodemus to know what being born again was based on OT scriptures ONLY.

John 3:10
Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

hope this helps!!!!!!!!

Just like the disciples did not understand the gospel prior to Jesus resurrection neither did nicodemus understand the new birth

 

[praise_yeshua]

Just like the disciples did not understand the gospel prior to Jesus resurrection neither did nicodemus understand the new birth

I agree. However, it wasn't because of what the Scripture taught. It was because of their unbelief. Jesus later chided the disciples on the road to Emmaus.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Jesus began at Genesis and worked his way through the prophets. Things they should have known.

Generational unbelief destroys

 

[sawdust]

Well, Houston, it seems the problem is on your end.

Since Jesus was "chiding" his pride in claiming to be something he was not qualified for.

Jesus was the "Teacher of Israel."

NOT Nicodemus.

So now you are agreeing with me? It was a chiding, not an invitation for questions. Nice to know someone's listening.

 

[sawdust]

Just like the disciples did not understand the gospel prior to Jesus resurrection neither did nicodemus understand the new birth

Did I say Nicodemus understood? No! I said Jesus expected him to understand if he (Nicodemus) was to consider himself a teacher. And He (Jesus) expected that understanding to come from OT scriptures alone.

Apart from the fact you didn't deal with what I said, there is also the issue that the disciples did not consider themselves to be teachers of the Law so you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

[civic]

I agree. However, it wasn't because of what the Scripture taught. It was because of their unbelief. Jesus later chided the disciples on the road to Emmaus.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Jesus began at Genesis and worked his way through the prophets. Things they should have known.

Generational unbelief destroys

Jesus also said it was hidden from them . I’ll pull up the passages after work

 

[praise_yeshua]

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Another point to make. Read Romans 1:18-21 and identify when this took place and who was involved.

I had a friend that I lost over things like this.

Notice not only that nature teaches but in verse 19 there is a revelation that takes place from God. "God has showed it to them". Not nature. Paul is including nature but he is extending the knowledge that include information about His "eternal power" and "Godhead".

Which comes from the Gospel. The message of God. That Gospel has expanded over time to include more information but the Gospel did not start in the Incarnation. It started LONG before.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Abraham lived the Gospel. So have countless untold people before Abraham.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus also said it was hidden from them . I’ll pull up the passages after work

Unbelief hides. You will find that word "hidden" is relative to unbelief. Paul talked about the "ignorance of unbelief". They are all relative.

I know that I was told the truth for many many years and didn't believe it. I still am struggling with the Truth. We all are. It is not that we haven't been told. It is not that it is mystery to "us". It is. However it shouldn't be. We just don't believe it..

 

[praise_yeshua]

Relative to "hidden".

Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Those that think themselves wise don't seek. They have no need to seek.

Babies that know nothing.... SEEK wisdom.

It is one of the reason why everyone that thinks there is no absolute innocence relative to human infants should reconsider.......

You need to get to where babies already are. There is extreme danger in thinking you already know something and have need of nothing.

God created the natural man for faith. It is all around us. Embedded in very nature and existence as descendents of Adam. Don't be deceived. Seek Him while He may be found.....

Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

 

[Aeliana]

Both man and angels were created in the image of God.

Angels in the OT are sometimes referred to as "sons of God."

Jesus is The Son of God...

And, we are told that man was created in the Image of God.

To later have Spirit led believers called "sons of God." Romans 8:14

Different, but similar enough for angelic "sons of God" to mate with human women... Producing a functional hybrid.

That is why giants in the land were found on earth before Noah's flood wiped them out.

The Bible never refers to angels being made in the image of God but the angels being called the sons of God implies that in some context God did make them in his image. However, the manner in which God created humans in the image of God (Genesis 1:27) is distinct from the manner in which God created angels in his image.

Were Angels Made in the Image of God?

Question of the week: Genesis 1:26–27 states that God created humans in his own image. Do you think the angels also were made in the image of God? Weren’t they referred to as “sons of God?” My answer: The term “sons of God” is used in the Bible to refer to either angels or to […]

reasons.org

 

[101G]

The Bible never refers to angels being made in the image of God but the angels being called the sons of God implies that in some context God did make them in his image. However, the manner in which God created humans in the image of God (Genesis 1:27) is distinct from the manner in which God created angels in his image.

Correct, no angel of God is called a son of God, only Humans.

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Bible never refers to angels being made in the image of God but the angels being called the sons of God implies that in some context God did make them in his image. However, the manner in which God created humans in the image of God (Genesis 1:27) is distinct from the manner in which God created angels in his image.

Were Angels Made in the Image of God?

Question of the week: Genesis 1:26–27 states that God created humans in his own image. Do you think the angels also were made in the image of God? Weren’t they referred to as “sons of God?” My answer: The term “sons of God” is used in the Bible to refer to either angels or to […]

reasons.org

Can I challenge you for a minute.....

Establish the argument that "sons of God" is actually "angels" relative to Satan/Michael/etc.

I believe you will find it difficult to establish such without a single contrary thought otherwise.

The faithful line of Seth is an option. I know that challenges many modern theological thoughts.... but I must.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

There is a heavenly body for saints. Even that body will be joined in the future with our fleshly bodies in the resurrection of the dead.

Most people reference Christ being the first begotten from the dead as evidence against such, but I don't believe it is. Jesus was raised in His fleshly body.

This does not preclude the concept that the heavenly body has always existed for the faithful.

Something to consider.

 

[GeneZ]

You see it that way. Two things are happening. Regeneration AND Renewal. Together (by God's grace) they place us (the Church) in a unique position whereby God grants us eternal life, His unique life which is to be found in Christ.

Stop trying to justify your position and start thinking through what the scriptures are saying. Jesus expected Nicodemus to know what being born again was based on OT scriptures ONLY.

Maybe can be said like this?

Jesus expected Nicodemus (being considered a great Jewish teacher) to be knowing from his study of the OT Scriptures what was needed to be able to instantly grasp what he spoke of...

Jesus was expecting from Nicodemus instant comprehension.
Instead, Nicodemus gave him instant apprehension.

We are not born regenerate. We are born unregenerate.
Being born only body and soul. No spirit life.
So, Jesus created an analogy using "birth" to explain regeneration to Nicodemus.

In other words? Jesus was saying that Nicodemus needed to acquire a new form of life to begin to understand what he had been stumbling over.

The resistance to correction....

When we were still babes in Christ? We could simply trust what we were told about certain things.
Especially if we liked and trusted the person telling us what we accepted.
But, as we mature?
If we are to grow where needed?
Its imperative that we must relearn some things.
Things that we were not told correctly by those whom we may have loved and respected.

Its a problem sometimes when some will equate the rejection of the beloved person who told us what needs correction with the rejection of the error they sincerely told us. For some that causes a conflict who esteems 'human loyalty' as a highest virtue.
For example: Hitler's followers had tremendous human loyalty for him. People will also have such loyalty for benevolent people who influenced us in the past.

Such "human loyalty" is not seen as a virtue to God. Many Catholics have held onto the same kind of human loyalty for the pope. Even over what the Bible says vs what the pope wanted them to believe.

​

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—​

yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross ​

and follow me cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26-27​

Some will hate someone bringing in a correction, as if that person were telling them they must now hate their close friends.
Friends whom had been in agreement with one other, having formed a strong bond which was based upon a mutual personal bias
about a matter.

Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. ​

From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other,​

three against two and two against three. Luke 12:51-52​

And, with those words in mind?

We are "family" of God..


grace and peace ......................

 

[GeneZ]

Correct, no angel of God is called a son of God, only Humans.

101G.

​

​

​

Now prepare yourself like a man;​

I will question you, and you shall answer Me.​

​

“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?​

Tell Me, if you have understanding.​

Who determined its measurements?​

Surely you know!​

Or who stretched the line upon it?​

To what were its foundations fastened?​

Or who laid its cornerstone,​

When the morning stars sang together,​

And all the sons of God shouted for joy?​

​

​

Job 38:3-7​

Selah....

 

[GeneZ]

So you accept the fact that God knew such before Luke 7? Maybe I should have asked just the question.

And, maybe I should ask you?

Do you think I am a baby Christian that you must question me as you do?

 

[101G]

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

There is a heavenly body for saints. Even that body will be joined in the future with our fleshly bodies in the resurrection of the dead.

Most people reference Christ being the first begotten from the dead as evidence against such, but I don't believe it is. Jesus was raised in His fleshly body.

the heavenly is Spirit, and yes the Lord Jesus was in a fleshly body without .... "BLOOD". supportive scripture, Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." this just answered two question. the flesh and bones, was quicken... changed. but did one not notice ... NO BLOOD. and do not HUMAN Bones produce Blood? look it up. so the Flesh and the Bones has been modified.
also the Lord Jesus said, "for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." well that just killed any theory of angels being son of God, for angels are "spirit". supportive scripture, Hebrews 1:7 "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire." and what did the Lord Jesus say? "for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." angels can be referred as a man or men for they can appear as such..... for our benefit only. but the Lord Jesus do not lie, and he killed two birds with one stone.

101G.

 

[GeneZ]

The Bible never refers to angels being made in the image of God but the angels being called the sons of God implies that in some context God did make them in his image. However, the manner in which God created humans in the image of God (Genesis 1:27) is distinct from the manner in which God created angels in his image.

Correct.

Man as a soul was created in His image.
And, an angel as a spirit was also created in His image.

For the Son (being a soul in union with God)
and the Holy Spirit (being a spirit in union with God),...
are both equally God!

Both man and angel were created in His image.

Each one reflecting different aspects of God the Trinity.


grace and peace ..........

 

[101G]

​

​

​

Now prepare yourself like a man;​

I will question you, and you shall answer Me.​

​

“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?​

Tell Me, if you have understanding.​

Who determined its measurements?​

Surely you know!​

Or who stretched the line upon it?​

To what were its foundations fastened?​

Or who laid its cornerstone,​

When the morning stars sang together,​

And all the sons of God shouted for joy?​

​

​

Job 38:3-7​

Selah....

did 101G school you before on this? see it again in both posts. must 101G repeat himself over and over?
First one
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/genesis-chapter-1-and-2-sons-of-god-born-in-the-garden.578/post-50301

second one
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/genesis-chapter-1-and-2-sons-of-god-born-in-the-garden.578/post-50302

if you cannot understand, just ask.
101G

 

[civic]

Correct.

Man as a soul was created in His image.
And, an angel as a spirit was also created in His image.

For the Son (having a soul in union with God) and the Holy Spirit (having a spirit in union with God), are both equally God!

Both man and angel were created in His image.
Each reflecting different aspects of the Trinity.


grace and peace ..........

Nowhere does scripture say or imply anyone except man was made in the image and likeness of God.

Your angel theory is just that a theory with no proof or evidence from scripture

 

[GeneZ]

did 101G school you before on this? see it again in both posts. must 101G repeat himself over and over?
First one
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/genesis-chapter-1-and-2-sons-of-god-born-in-the-garden.578/post-50301

second one
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/genesis-chapter-1-and-2-sons-of-god-born-in-the-garden.578/post-50302

if you cannot understand, just ask.
101G

Stop diverting... what does Job 38 tell us plainly?

When the morning stars sang together,​

And all the sons of God shouted for joy?​