Did God ( Christ ) die ?

charismaticlady said:
We know that hell or whatever it was called was divided into two parts that had a great gull between them that all those believing and waiting for the coming Messiah were in the part called Abraham's bosom. Jesus spoke of it when He told the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

When Jesus was raised from the dead, many of the OT saints rose with Him. I personally believe it was all of them in Abraham's bosom. It was also called Paradise, which heaven is also called Paradise. IOW Abraham's bosom is empty.
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Yes, this is clearly what happened.

Paradise was lifted up to heaven at that point.
 
charismaticlady said:
Actually, Satan had not sinned before talking to Eve. Eve sinned unintentionally; we know this because they still did not know they were naked. It was Adam's willful sin, called a sin unto death, that changed everything.
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I disagree. Satan's existence predates the creation of man. He was a angel that fell before man was created. That is my position.
 
civic said:
you are conflating faith in God with regeneration. Not the same.
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OK Civic...

So you can have have faith without having regeneration?

That sounds right to you?

I know you can have faith without works, and God counts that person's faith as being dead.

But it only takes ONE ACT OF FAITH to become regenerated...

This is the ONE!

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:29​

If anyone believes in him? Regeneration will follow. "Saved."

But ..

“For many are called, but few are chosen.” Matthew 22:14​
​
"And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, ​
he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Romans 8:30​


Proud believers fail to realize that He is not willing that any will perish. Many goof offs will be saved.

He will even save those who believe in Him that will end up becoming an embarrassment before angels.
They will find themselves ashamed when they appear before Him.

So we all should all be not proud of ourselves for believing....

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. ​
Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone ​
to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9​

God saves anyone who believes, both jerks as well as those who do become wise by grace.

Some get proud after salvation because of the thought that God saved them.
And, continue functioning in the same kind of pride that sustained them before they were saved.

He is not willing to even have the jerks to perish as long as they believer in Him.

Faith that He is real and died for their sins is a sign of regeneration having taken place.
After regeneration takes place they must work out their own salvation in fear and trembling.
Its that "inevitable fear that must come" that gets many to become closed minded and to form into cliques....


So it is....
 
synergy said:
Agreed.

Once Christ ascended into Heaven, he poured out the Holy Spirit to all believers. That iincludes OT saints, giving all believers eternal spiritual life.

I'm not clear about the boundary, if any, between Paradise and Heaven. Do you have any verses about that?
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I want to rightfully recognize that we are very close to believing the same things @civic

I'm just disagreeing with you in the way we're building the same "house". I apologize if I've seemed argumentative. That is not my goal. Thank you!
 
dizerner said:
Da Sprinklage?

Purge me with hyssop and I shall be clean.
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Yes... God has legal requirements that must be followed.

First God gave symbolic representations of His Justice to the Jews by means of the Law.
When they had gained understanding of what all the symbolism represented?
Then! God introduced the reality!
That is why Paul made a habit to go to the Jew first.
For they should have been the quickest to be able to understand what had taken place on the Cross.

Law .. yes. But, God is not a legalist.
He is Holy and Absolute Righteousness... and can not change.

All must conform to who and what He requires to be accepted.

grace and peace ................
 
civic said:
Satan sinned after deceiving Eve ???
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It is the type of sin each committed. Adam's was the worst. It was a sin unto death.

What I'm also pointing out is that Satan never sinned before giving his opinion to Eve. He was actually telling her the truth, putting the sin on Eve. When she did not die when she tasted the fruit, she thought it safe to give to her husband. She thought Satan was giving her more information than God had told them. Remember Eve never experienced trickery before.
 
praise_yeshua said:
I disagree. Satan's existence predates the creation of man. He was a angel that fell before man was created. That is my position.
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I can see why you thought that. After all I was raised believing the same thing. What woke me up to the truth was because reading Ezekiel 28 showed him in the Garden of Eden before he spoke to Eve, and the Garden was planted at the end of creation week, so Satan couldn't have sinned before that. It wasn't until then that iniquity was found in him.
 
praise_yeshua said:
What a crazy analogy.
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Some thought Paul to be crazy... And, it was blamed on too much study.



The Cross purified all those condemned for being born sinners from their sins.

Yes! The Cross was God's Divine Disinfectant for sin.

Even the unbeliever when facing judgment will not have their sins brought up.
For only their works will be evaluated, and will be found to fall short of the righteousness God requires.

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.
And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life.

And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were ​
written in the books. " Revelation 20:12​

No sins of the unbeliever will be mentioned at the final judgment. Only their works.
Why?

For the Cross judged and paid the penalty for all of mankind's sins. No more sins to be judged!

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours ​
but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2​


The issue in salvation must be just like what the angels faced. What think ye of Christ?

To make sins the issue in our salvation is to offer a cheap salvation...
For the issue is to be our choosing for, or against, our relationship to be with God.

grace and peace ......................
 
charismaticlady said:
I can see why you thought that. After all I was raised believing the same thing. What woke me up to the truth was because reading Ezekiel 28 showed him in the Garden of Eden before he spoke to Eve, and the Garden was planted at the end of creation week, so Satan couldn't have sinned before that. It wasn't until then that iniquity was found in him.
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Got it. Thank you for explaining further.

I have a different view of the King of Tyre. However....

There is no context of timing. Notice the appeal to Eden (there are other issues here)

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Notice the appeal to "holy mountain of God".

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Eden is certainly not first in order here. It is simply a review without any context of timing.
 
GeneZ said:
Some thought Paul to be crazy... And, it was blamed on too much study.



The Cross purified all those condemned for being born sinners from their sins.

Yes! The Cross was God's Divine Disinfectant for sin.

Even the unbeliever when facing judgment will not have their sins brought up.
For only their works will be evaluated, and will be found to fall short of the righteousness God requires.

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.
And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life.

And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were ​
written in the books. " Revelation 20:12​

No sins of the unbeliever will be mentioned at the final judgment. Only their works.
Why?

For the Cross judged and paid the penalty for all of mankind's sins. No more sins to be judged!

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours ​
but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2​


The issue in salvation must be just like what the angels faced. What think ye of Christ?

To make sins the issue in our salvation is to offer a cheap salvation...
For the issue is to be our choosing for, or against, our relationship to be with God.

grace and peace ......................
Click to expand...

So you are paying attention to me......

The Cross destroyed the application of sin. Not that sin wasn't forgiven before the cross.

You (and many many others throughout history) are reading too much into the concepts of dispensationalism here.
 

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