civic
Well-known member
The heaven God took him to be with Him.
Did God ( Christ ) die ?
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
GeneZ
Well-known member
What I have noticed is that this forum is attracting a certain kind of mind set.
I was not speaking of what I generally see in other forums.
One could even get the impression that you all attend the same Bible study as a group...
GeneZ
Well-known member
Like here...
Genesis 11:4
Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens,
so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
Matthew 6:26-27
Behold the birds of the heaven, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feeds them.
civic
Well-known member
GeneZ
Well-known member
Genesis 27:28
May God give you heaven’s dew
and earth’s richness—
an abundance of grain and new wine.
Do you really believe dew comes from the Heaven Jesus is in?
Last edited:
Are you indwelt by the Spirit? Are you sealed by the Spirit? Do you have a gift from the Spirit? Are you filled with the Spirit? Do I really need to give you the verses that show all these things occur at the Baptism of the Spirit?
Is any one of those things spoken of to Nicodemus when Jesus said he must be born from above? No, they are not. Did Jesus mention any of the above is needed to see or enter the Kingdom of God? No, He did not. Did any OT saint receive any of the above when they believed? No, they did not. Were they saved? Yes, from what? Spiritual death! They received a human spirit making them spiritually alive and able to comprehend spiritual matters. This is being born again. This is regeneration. Regeneration is the absolute minimum requirement to salvation.
No-one will have any part in God's Kingdom unless they are born again which is the generation of a human spirit from the Spirit of God. All believers are regenerated but not all believers have been baptized in the Spirit.
"Spirit gives birth to spirit."
He is not birthing Himself, not birthing eternal life, not birthing a spiritual seal, not birthing a gift. He is birthing a human spirit. Read what it says without adding more than what is there.
Enoch Gen.5:24The heaven God took him to be with Him.
Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. ( no heaven and no to be with Him)
Elijah 2Kings 2:11
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. (heaven but doesn't say which one and no to be with Him)
The reality is, we don't know if they went directly to heaven (God's abode) or if they simply were carried away and translated to Paradise. The only thing we can say with certainty is that neither died physically.
You lot need a whole lot more than popcorn.This is going to be interesting....
We'll be needing alot of Popcorn
GeneZ
Well-known member
Why were they righteous?
Salvation was not spoken of either but that does come with regeneration. Read Titus 3:5.
(Titus 3:5) not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
Conclusion: You are appealing to the Fallacy of Absence.
False. Only the Cross saves. If there's another way to be saved then by all means do tell us, please.
Being born again by the Spirit is to receive a human spirit? So much for being born of the Spirit which is not human but Divine.
You have yet to prove that. As such that presupposition can be dismissed.
The Bible says that we are partakers of Divine Nature (Divine Spirit). Where does that Biblical fact tie in with your presuppositions concerning your view of human spirit = regeneration.
(2 Pet 1:4) by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Its back to the drawing board for you and I only devoted only a few minutes to responding.
GeneZ
Well-known member
And, you are being "absent minded" in regards to Abraham?
And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”
and he was called God’s friend." James 2:23
When citing Titus 3:5 you missed something. Since the death, burial, and resurrection... and session in Heaven? That is now what we receive when we believe today. But, before the atonement of the Cross took place? God knowing that the Cross would not fail.. was able to credit OT believers with regeneration on the basis of God's omniscience having already seen salvation of the Cross as a sure reality.
And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”
and he was called God’s friend." James 2:23
One must eventually learn to think according to God's attributes to understand how salvation was secured for OT believers before Jesus died for our sins. For, God could not fail to have Jesus die in our place as our substitute of the Cross.. God knew would take place perfectly....
All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written
in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world." Rev 13:8
That is why OT saints were regenerated by God. It was done on the basis that God could not fail to achieve salvation for all who believe.
grace and truth ............. and peace to those who walk in it.
Doh! Now you're conflating being given eternal life (partakers of the Divine nature) with regeneration. You can't even make your mind up what regeneration actually is. One minute it is being baptized in the Spirit, next it is being given eternal life, what will come next? Will you say it is the resurrection of the body?
Spirit gives birth to spirit. Again I say, and I will continue to say it, the Spirit does not give birth to Himself, eternal life, a spiritual seal, a gift or any other silly notion you keep wanting to throw out there.
Have a nice day.
Rockson
Well-known member
Well II'm not a fan of people throwing around accusations that someone is being self righteous. Calvinists accuse other of that too when one merely claims that they had to decide to receive the grace of God. They say that one is exalting self which I think such a charge is unfounded. I'd say so with what we're talking about here too.
If one were to say they don't need the work that Jesus did on the cross to provide righteousness for them they I would say they are depending on their self righteousness. I don't see anyone doing that here.
civic
Well-known member
you are conflating faith in God with regeneration. Not the same.
civic
Well-known member
a post full of fallacies. the sin nature was invented by the pagans, gnostics, manacheans which augustine brought into the church. No one believed it or taught it prior to augustine. Get you facts straight on church history and doctrines they believed or denied.
Your human philosophical argument is self righteousness thinking you are speaking for God without scripture once again. Human arguments is all I read above void of Gods word.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Born again, born of God, born of the Spirit and born of Him(Jesus) are all synonyms. We know when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus that he was not born again. Jesus told him of his need to be born from above. The New Birth being born of the Spirit by definition is Regeneration.Doh! Now you're conflating being given eternal life (partakers of the Divine nature) with regeneration. You can't even make your mind up what regeneration actually is. One minute it is being baptized in the Spirit, next it is being given eternal life, what will come next? Will you say it is the resurrection of the body?
Spirit gives birth to spirit. Again I say, and I will continue to say it, the Spirit does not give birth to Himself, eternal life, a spiritual seal, a gift or any other silly notion you keep wanting to throw out there.
Have a nice day.
Titus 3:5- He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
paliggenesia: regeneration, renewal
Original Word: παλιγγενεσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: paliggenesia
Phonetic Spelling: (pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah)
Definition: regeneration, renewal
Usage: a new birth, regeneration, renewal. the re-birth all believers experience at conversion (Tit 3:5).
John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:6
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
1 John 2:29
29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.
1 John 3:9
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him;
1 John 4:7
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
1 John 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
1 John 5:4
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
1 John 5:18-19
18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Credit with "regeneration " in the OT ?
Chapter and Verse for this false belief ?
I would love to read about it in the forgotten books of the bible since its not in a single one of our 66 book we have in the bible.
grace and peace
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
and there is more
@GeneZ @sawdust James 1:18
18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
John 1:13
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
John 3:3-8
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
1 Peter 1:23-24
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Titus 3:5-8
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
above we see the new birth (regeneration) and eternal life connected as synonyms.
hope this helps !!!
Similar threads
