Did God ( Christ ) die ?

[synergy]

Credit with "regeneration " in the OT ?

Chapter and Verse for this false belief ?

I would love to read about it in the forgotten books of the bible since its not in a single one of our 66 book we have in the bible.

grace and peace

hope this helps !!!

You nailed @GeneZ 's heretical presuppositions to the wall! Well done!

 

[synergy]

Faith brings regeneration.

Like rain brings water

Only at Pentecost and after, not before. See Acts 2:33. Only at Pentecost did Christ pour out the Holy Spirit.

Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Only at Pentecost and after, not before. See Acts 2:33. Only at Pentecost did Christ pour out the Holy Spirit.

Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.

I've mentioned why you're wrong before. In this context, it doesn't matter because faith has always brought regeneration. There is no scenario where regeneration precedes faith.

 

[civic]

I've mentioned why you're wrong before. In this context, it doesn't matter because faith has always brought regeneration. There is no scenario where regeneration precedes faith.

Can you provide scripture showing that the OT saints were regenerated because of their faith in God. Thanks !

 

[praise_yeshua]

Can you provide scripture showing that the OT saints were regenerated because of their faith in God. Thanks !

Define regeneration? It seems that you both insist that the "pouring out of the Spirit" that only took place in the book of Acts is regeneration.

I disagree. I'd like to understand why you're insisting regeneration can only take place after this event. Some of this involves defining regeneration.

I see these rule you're working from.

1. Pouring out of the Spirit = Regeneration
2. No other action of God = Regeneration

If this is true, I reject #2.

I believe

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

I believe the faith Martha display caused regeneration in Martha.

added...
If regeneration is life and I believe it is.........

Then what Jesus said is true. Whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Life begins with regeneration that becomes from faith. Which is true of all those that have found faith in Messiah from all ages.

 

[charismaticlady]

No. God did not die. God cannot be separated from Himself. Jesus died, God did not. The flesh died. The human part of Jesus died. Why do we die? Because of sin. So are you saying that God became a sinner, and thus died? You have to consider everything. The reason why God did not die is because God is 1. God, and God never sinned, and the reason why we die is because of sin. And the reason Jesus died is because our sin was imputed to Him. By Jesus dying (the humanity), Jesus fulfilled the Law of death for us. God, however, did not die. It is difficult to understand, because we are human, and God, and Jesus, are completely different from us. Jesus was human, but He was also 100% God. We have no analog to which we can compare Him.

Yes, Jesus died, but Romans 8:10 was not about the sins of Jesus, or even born again Christians. We die because ADAM willfully sinned and brought death into the world. Revelation 20: 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

cc: @civic

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, Jesus died, but Romans 8:10 was not about the sins of Jesus, or even born again Christians. We die because ADAM willfully sinned and brought death into the world. Revelation 20: 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

cc: @civic

Death already existed. That is why the word "entered" is used to describe the how. Sin "entered" into the world.

God has long tolerated His creation sinning against Him. He is longsuffering, kind and patient. The idea that sin corrupts God is only found in the teaching that Christ literally was separated from the Father and experienced abandonment to sin.

This teaching destroys the Immaculate Character of God in Jesus Christ.

Sin hurts us. It hurts God through us but it does not create a need in Divinity for us.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm add something here and it is not exactly applicable to conversation but this a good point to add this to me......

I've long said that God is too smart to force someone to love Him. Forced love is not meaningful to God. There so many indication of God not desiring to force others to seek Him. Love is meaningless if does not come from a free will to choose otherwise.

This is the design of this life. To let man have what he wants. To show man what it means to be without God in man's own desires.

The thoughts related to this topic show where carnal men find themselves.

God doesn't need us. God loves us because He is love but "love that comes solely from a point of "need" destroys the very nature of love. Love seeks not HER OWN......

Love seeks cooperation. Willingness.

 

[synergy]

Define regeneration? It seems that you both insist that the "pour out of the Spirit" that only took place in the book of Acts is regeneration.

I disagree. I'd like to understand why you're insisting regeneration can only take place after this event. Some of this involves defining regeneration.

I see these rule you're working from.

1. Pour out of the Spirit = Regeneration
2. No other action of God = Regeneration

If this is true, I reject #2.

I believe

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

I believe the faith Martha display caused regeneration.

Titus 3:5 ties Regeneration directly to Salvation. Does your understanding align with that fact?

 

[charismaticlady]

Death already existed. That is why the word "entered" is used to describe the how. Sin "entered" into the world.

God has long tolerated His creation sinning against Him. He is longsuffering, kind and patient. The idea that sin corrupts God is only found in the teaching that Christ literally was separated from the Father and experienced abandonment to sin.

This teaching destroys the Immaculate Character of God in Jesus Christ.

Sin hurts us. It hurts God through us but it does not create a need in Divinity for us.

Who died before Adam sinned?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Titus 3:5 ties Regeneration directly to Salvation. Does your understanding align with that fact?

Okay. It does but I don't see the "Pouring out of the Spirit" as being the only event that includes the Spirit of God.

That is why I started this most recent engagement on the topic with defining the circumstances of regeneration.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Who died before Adam sinned?

Satan sinned before Adam. Satan is targeted for death.

Contrary to carnal men. God has long been a Creator.......earth and man are not the center of "God's Universe"

 

[synergy]

Okay. It does but I don't see the "Pouring out of the Spirit" as being the only event that includes the Spirit of God.

That is why I started this most recent engagement on the topic with defining the circumstances of regeneration.

Then you're saying that people were saved in OT times before the Incarnation, before the Cross, before the Resurrection, before the Ascension, and before Pentecost. Is that possible? If so, where is that recorded in the OT?

 

[charismaticlady]

Satan sinned before Adam. Satan is targeted for death.

Contrary to carnal men. God has long been a Creator.......earth and man are not the center of "God's Universe"

Actually, Satan had not sinned before talking to Eve. Eve sinned unintentionally; we know this because they still did not know they were naked. It was Adam's willful sin, called a sin unto death, that changed everything.

 

[charismaticlady]

Then you're saying that people were saved in OT times before the Incarnation, before the Cross, before the Resurrection, before the Ascension, and before Pentecost. Is that possible? If so, where is that recorded in the OT?

We know that hell or whatever it was called was divided into two parts that had a great gull between them that all those believing and waiting for the coming Messiah were in the part called Abraham's bosom. Jesus spoke of it when He told the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

When Jesus was raised from the dead, many of the OT saints rose with Him. I personally believe it was all of them in Abraham's bosom. It was also called Paradise, which heaven is also called Paradise. IOW Abraham's bosom is empty.

 

[civic]

Actually, Satan had not sinned before talking to Eve. Eve sinned unintentionally; we know this because they still did not know they were naked. It was Adam's willful sin, called a sin unto death, that changed everything.

Satan sinned after deceiving Eve ???

 

[synergy]

Doh! Now you're conflating being given eternal life (partakers of the Divine nature) with regeneration. You can't even make your mind up what regeneration actually is. One minute it is being baptized in the Spirit, next it is being given eternal life, what will come next?

I'm going along with whatever the Bible says about Regeneration. I suggest you try to keep up and not fall back to your presuppositions.

(Titus 3:5) not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

Will you say it is the resurrection of the body?

That's our future glorification.

Spirit gives birth to spirit. Again I say, and I will continue to say it, the Spirit does not give birth to Himself, eternal life,

(Gal 6:8) If you sow to your own flesh, you will reap corruption from the flesh, but if you sow to the Spirit, you will reap eternal life from the Spirit.

a spiritual seal,

(Eph 1:13) In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit;

a gift

(Acts 2:38) Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

or any other silly notion you keep wanting to throw out there.

The Bible does not produce "silly notions" as you can see in the quotes just above. It's your presuppositions that do that.

 

[synergy]

We know that hell or whatever it was called was divided into two parts that had a great gull between them that all those believing and waiting for the coming Messiah were in the part called Abraham's bosom. Jesus spoke of it when He told the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

Agreed.

When Jesus was raised from the dead, many of the OT saints rose with Him.

Once Christ ascended into Heaven, he poured out the Holy Spirit to all believers. That iincludes OT saints, giving all believers eternal spiritual life.

I personally believe it was all of them in Abraham's bosom. It was also called Paradise, which heaven is also called Paradise. IOW Abraham's bosom is empty.

I'm not clear about the boundary, if any, between Paradise and Heaven. Do you have any verses about that?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Then you're saying that people were saved in OT times before the Incarnation, before the Cross, before the Resurrection, before the Ascension, and before Pentecost. Is that possible? If so, where is that recorded in the OT?

Why are you not dealing with my comments when I answered @civic? Please clearly define regeneration.

3. Why are you including the Incarnation, Cross and Resurrection? You have "stuck" your anchor in the "sand" at Pentecost. Are you moving it now?

I want to be clear about this. It is why I am asking specific questions that produce clear answers.

 

[praise_yeshua]

We know that hell or whatever it was called was divided into two parts that had a great gull between them that all those believing and waiting for the coming Messiah were in the part called Abraham's bosom. Jesus spoke of it when He told the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

Jesus spoke of it but it is doctrine that declares Abraham's bosom as being different. The Scriptures do not clearly define "Abraham's bosom". It is more than likely a metaphorical representation of "faith". Not that don't believe it is literal as well. I do.

When Jesus was raised from the dead, many of the OT saints rose with Him. I personally believe it was all of them in Abraham's bosom. It was also called Paradise, which heaven is also called Paradise. IOW Abraham's bosom is empty.

You can believe that. I don't have to. All I know is they arose from the grave.