Did God ( Christ ) die ?

[sawdust]

In John 3:3, "See" the kingdom means experience it. You have to be born again to enter the kingdom and experience it.

Have you not read the OT? Are you seriously going to try and tell me the likes of David, Moses, Abraham, Job, Daniel, Noah (I could go on forever) did not experience the love and mercy of God?

I swear, do not even try to go down that route!

"The Lord is my Shepherd"

There are those who know the Shepherd's Psalm and there are those who know the Shepherd. Those OT saints above (and many, many more) knew the Shepherd and anyone else who knows the Shepherd? Knows they knew Him.

 

[GeneZ]

In John 3:3, "See" the kingdom means experience it. You have to be born again to enter the kingdom and experience it.

Do you actually experience it?
In what way?


You mean to say that when the OT "Jewish prophet" Isaiah described the new heavens and new earth, he was not seeing the Kingdom of God?


Isaiah 65:17-20

“See, I will create​

new heavens and a new earth.​

The former things will not be remembered,​

nor will they come to mind.​

But be glad and rejoice forever​

in what I will create,​

for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight​

and its people a joy.​

I will rejoice over Jerusalem​

and take delight in my people;​

the sound of weeping and of crying​

will be heard in it no more.​

​

“Never again will there be in it​

an infant who lives but a few days,​

or an old man who does not live out his years;​

the one who dies at a hundred​

will be thought a mere child;​

the one who fails to reach a hundred​

will be considered accursed.​

And... what was he seeing when he saw this from the Lord?

They will build houses and dwell in them;​

they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.​

No longer will they build houses and others live in them,​

or plant and others eat.​

For as the days of a tree,​

so will be the days of my people;​

my chosen ones will long enjoy​

the work of their hands.​

They will not labor in vain,​

nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;​

for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,​

they and their descendants with them.​

Before they call I will answer;​

while they are still speaking I will hear.​

The wolf and the lamb will feed together,​

and the lion will eat straw like the ox,​

and dust will be the serpent’s food.​

They will neither harm nor destroy​

on all my holy mountain,”​

says the Lord. Isaiah 65:21-27​

Have you even seen that much?


grace and peace ...........

 

[GeneZ]

Have you not read the OT? Are you seriously going to try and tell me the likes of David, Moses, Abraham, Job, Daniel, Noah (I could go on forever) did not experience the love and mercy of God?

I swear, do not even try to go down that route!

"The Lord is my Shepherd"

There are those who know the Shepherd's Psalm and there are those who know the Shepherd. Those OT saints above (and many, many more) knew the Shepherd and anyone else who knows the Shepherd? Knows they knew Him.

"The Lord is my Shepherd"...

The Hebrew is more explicit....

............... "The Lord is the one shepherding me."

David and the Lord were in an active relationship. David was born again.

David was not "church age," so he did not have the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit like all Christians have.

......... grace and peace

 

[sawdust]

"The Lord is my Shepherd"...

The Hebrew is more explicit....

............... "The Lord is the one shepherding me."

David and the Lord were in an active relationship. David was born again.

David was not "church age," so he did not have the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit like all Christians have.

......... grace and peace

I know that Shepherd. Had that rod prodding a few times

Ashamed to say, I learnt the Psalm below the hard way more times than I care to admit. But, I did learn.

Psalm 32:9
Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which have no understanding, Which must be harnessed with bit and bridle, Else they will not come near you.

 

[GeneZ]

I know that Shepherd. Had that rod prodding a few times

Ashamed to say, I learnt the Psalm below the hard way more times than I care to admit. But, I did learn.

Psalm 32:9
Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which have no understanding, Which must be harnessed with bit and bridle, Else they will not come near you.

When He finally gets the believer to lay down in green pasture next to quiet waters ..... it has its perks.

 

[sethproton]

Have you not read the OT? Are you seriously going to try and tell me the likes of David, Moses, Abraham, Job, Daniel, Noah (I could go on forever) did not experience the love and mercy of God?

I swear, do not even try to go down that route!

"The Lord is my Shepherd"

There are those who know the Shepherd's Psalm and there are those who know the Shepherd. Those OT saints above (and many, many more) knew the Shepherd and anyone else who knows the Shepherd? Knows they knew Him.

No I am not telling you that OT believers could not be with God. But you have a rigid system of beliiefs that seem to be parially scripture and partially human thinking. . Have you never heard that when He died, Christ went to Abraham's bosom where the righteous waited for Him?

What was Abraham waiting for?

 

[GeneZ]

No I am not telling you that OT believers could not be with God. But you have a rigid system of beliiefs that seem to be parially scripture and partially human thinking. . Have you never heard that when He died, Christ went to Abraham's bosom where the righteous waited for Him?

What was Abraham waiting for?

Paradise .... The waiting room for all those who believed prior to the Church age.
They could not have access to heaven until the Cross was finished.
Jesus had to first pay the penalty for everyone's sins for gaining access to heaven.

Yet, salvation had always been by faith....
All OT believers were regenerate.
For the Lord always provided atonement prior to the Cross..

When the Lord appeared to Adam and Eve wearing fig leaves?
He had them replace them and wear animal skins.

Why animal skins?

Blood was shed to provide them.

grace and peace ..........

 

[sawdust]

No I am not telling you that OT believers could not be with God. But you have a rigid system of beliiefs that seem to be parially scripture and partially human thinking. . Have you never heard that when He died, Christ went to Abraham's bosom where the righteous waited for Him?

What was Abraham waiting for?

He wasn't waiting to be made spiritually alive (born again), he already had a human spirit which is how he could comprehend spiritual matters and relate to God.

It's bad enough when believers confuse regeneration with the baptism of the Spirit but now you are confusing Christ's work on the Cross with regeneration. They were waiting for the Christ. He came, He died, He conquered (death) and rose again taking OT saints with Him. They were already saved. Try being saved without being born again.

It's no wonder the Church can't keep back the tide of evil that is flaunting itself in the daylight today.

 

[civic]

Paradise .... The waiting room for all those who believed prior to the Church age.
They could not have access to heaven until the Cross was finished.
Jesus had to first pay the penalty for everyone's sins for gaining access to heaven.

Yet, salvation had always been by faith....
All OT believers were regenerate.
For the Lord always provided atonement prior to the Cross..

When the Lord appeared to Adam and Eve wearing fig leaves?
He had them replace them and wear animal skins.

Why animal skins?

Blood was shed to provide them.

grace and peace ..........

Really where did Elijah go and Enoch ?

And the answer is ......................................... tick tok tic tok .............................

and the answer is HEAVEN...........................................

 

[GeneZ]

In John 3:3, "See" the kingdom means experience it. You have to be born again to enter the kingdom and experience it.

Jesus did not say Nicodemus would be experiencing it if he was born again.

He simply said that no one can see or enter the kingdom unless he is born again.

This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him,
“Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God;
for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”​

​

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless
one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” ​

​

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old?
Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”​

​

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water
and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of
the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.​

​

John 3:2-6​

Being born again is our ticket we hold now to get to see and enter.

Jesus did not say....

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you,
once one is born again, he will be seeing the kingdom of God.”

He did not say that. And, that is what you have been saying it to mean.

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless
one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Jesus said if you ever want to see it? You better be born again now.

The Kingdom that Isaiah prophesized will not take place until the thousand year reign begins.

 

[GeneZ]

Really where did Elijah go and Enoch ?

And the answer is ......................................... tick tok tic tok .............................

and the answer is HEAVEN...........................................

It just says they were taken up into the sky and out of sight.
Like Jonah was taken below the sea and out of sight, but he did not end up there...

 

[Rockson]

Like someone here would say...

You need to go to posts # and # and see what they claimed.
They claimed we have not inherited the sin nature from Adam.

But you're putting the pedal to the metal and are seeking to assert that defines them as being self righteous while all the time they believe just as much as you they need to receive the righteousness of God by faith through Jesus Christ. No need to embellish your position with a false assertion.

And, that's what I find myself dealing with....

If you mean because you think people are acting here as self righteous take heart and consider that's just a delusion. Do yourself a favor and don't be struggling with an imaginary foe.

 

[civic]

He wasn't waiting to be made spiritually alive (born again), he already had a human spirit which is how he could comprehend spiritual matters and relate to God.

It's bad enough when believers confuse regeneration with the baptism of the Spirit but now you are confusing Christ's work on the Cross with regeneration. They were waiting for the Christ. He came, He died, He conquered (death) and rose again taking OT saints with Him. They were already saved. Try being saved without being born again.

It's no wonder the Church can't keep back the tide of evil that is flaunting itself in the daylight today.

more nonsense all believers receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit when they believe- regeneration, the new birth, born again, spiritual birth, spirit baptism, born of the spirit are all the same thing- they are all synonymous terms

 

[sawdust]

Really where did Elijah go and Enoch ?

And the answer is ......................................... tick tok tic tok .............................

and the answer is HEAVEN...........................................

Honestly? You want to throw out the rule because of the exception? Is that how you want your forum to run? I have no problem throwing out the rule book and letting rip if that's how you to want rule.

 

[civic]

It just says they were taken up into the sky and out of sight.
Jonah was taken below the sea and out of sight, but he did not end up there...

Wrong answer once again.

2 Kings 2:11
“As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind”

 

[sawdust]

more nonsense all believers receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit when they believe- regeneration, the new birth, born again, spiritual birth, spirit baptism, born of the spirit are all the same thing- they are all synonymous terms

All Church age believers receive the baptism of the Spirit. I never said anything different. The baptism of the Spirit involves more than being born again.

 

[civic]

Honestly? You want to throw out the rule because of the exception? Is that how you want your forum to run? I have no problem throwing out the rule book and letting rip if that's how you to want rule.

I will agree that Enoch and Elijah are exceptions.

Well Moses as too

“About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem. Peter and his companions were very sleepy, but when they became fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men standing with him. As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, “Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” (He did not know what he was saying.)

Luke 9:28-33

 

[civic]

All Church age believers receive the baptism of the Spirit. I never said anything different. The baptism of the Spirit involves more than being born again.

Prove it just don't assert it with your presupposition.

 

[sawdust]

Wrong answer once again.

2 Kings 2:11
“As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind”

Which heaven?

 

[Diserner]

If you're going to argue mankind has a sin nature at birth fine....make your case for that but don't add on these extreme charges they're into being self righteous.

Rockson, logically there's no way around it.

You can doublespeak sure, but that's just being inconsistent.

The truth is, denying a sin nature is a CLAIM to goodness and righteousness of INHERENT BEING.

It logically IS a claim to a state of moral goodness, even if you try to go the fuzzy gray route and say it's a neutral state.

You are DENYING that you are FUNDAMENTALLY sinful, thus you are CLAIMING to be more righteous than you really ARE.

We have a word for that—self-righteousness.