A corpse has no life in it right? If you have no Spiritual life in you, your Spiritually dead. Right? What would life without the Spirit mean? A little common sense goes a long way.
Deliverance from Calvinism
- Thread starter Angelo
- Start date
Exodus 36. The new heart is given so you may obey God. Is believing obeying God?
Why did you not quote it
Exod 36:1And Bezalel and Oholiab and everyone who is skilled of heart in whom Yahweh has put wisdom and skill to know and to do all the work for the service of the sanctuary—they will do it, according to all that Yahweh has commanded.”
Exod 36:2And Moses called Bezalel and Oholiab and everyone skilled of heart, in whose heart Yahweh had put skill, all whose heart lifted him to come near to the work in order to do it.
Exod 36:8And all who were skilled of heart among the doers of the work made the tabernacle with ten curtains of finely twisted linen and blue and purple and crimson yarns, with cherubim; he made them, the work of a skilled craftsman.
It concerns workmanship in the building of the tabernacle and does not address what I posted
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Here, however, we see the purpose of scripture.
It is that you might believe
And as a result of believing you might have life
What one might gain cannot be what one already had
Why dont you post the relevant text? Exodus 36:26 to be more precise. Although I suspect you know what i was referring to.
You did not quote Exo 36:26 hello.
And it reads
Exodus 36:26 (LEB) — 26 and their forty silver bases, with two bases under the one frame and two bases under the next frame.
It does not concern a relevant subject.
And you still have not addressed
Maybe you should reconsider your suspicions.
Scripture does not teach men spiritually dead or even dead in both senses are without thought
Luke 16:19–26 (LEB) — 19 “Now a certain man was rich, and dressed in purple cloth and fine linen, feasting sumptuously every day. 20 And a certain poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, lay at his gate, 21 and was longing to be filled with what fell from the table of the rich man. But even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 Now it happened that the poor man died, and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s side. And the rich man also died and was buried. 23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes as he was in torment and saw Abraham from a distance, and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he could dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am suffering pain in this flame!’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received your good things during your life, and Lazarus likewise bad things. But now he is comforted here, but you are suffering pain. 26 And in addition to all these things, a great chasm has been established between us and you, so that those who want to cross over from here to you are not able to do so, nor can they cross over from there to us.’
Angelo
Administrator
You can alive walking and talking and be dead on the inside.
AND YOU [He made alive], when you were dead (slain) by [your] trespasses and sins
Eph 2:1.
This verse tells us that unbelievers are spiritually dead in their sins, awaiting a future judgment. This "spiritual death" does not imply they are literally dead or non-existent but rather separated from God's spiritual life due to their rejection of Christ.
Alive in Christ is the way to go.
When Ephesians 2:1 speaks of being “dead” in sin, the context goes on to describe it in terms of separation, rather than unconsciousness:
Ephesians 2:1-2: “And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.”
Ephesians 2:11-16: “Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called ‘Uncircumcision’ by the so-called ‘Circumcision,’ which is performed in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.”
Notice the language of separation, and which is also reinforced by Isaiah 59:2: “‘But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.’” (Isaiah 59:2)
Another example of spiritual death implying spiritual separation is found in the parable of the prodigal son: “‘Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate; for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.” (Luke 15:22-24) The prodigal son was “dead” in terms of being “lost.” He could still return home to humbly admit his error, though. A similar expression is, “You’re dead to me.” It is a metaphor to convey the concept of separation and being cut off.
civic
Active Member
except they were not corpses- I gave you the scriptures and you reject them. Thats on you, not me.
Address the scriptures for once instead of asking a question to avoid any exegesis.
So try and attempt giving a rebuttal to these passages.
Why did Jesus speak in parables if calvinism is correct regarding " dead " ?
We hear this all of the time comparing mans unregenerate state to that of Lazarus in the tomb in reformed/calvinist teachings.
The fact is calvinism's view on dead is wrong otherwise there would be no need to hide it from them. Why does Jesus need to hide truth from a dead corpse ?
See the contradiction ?
See the oxymoron ?
See the calvinists dilemma ?
Let’s look at the uses of the term “DEAD” in the scripture for you to decide:
1) Jesus referred to the church in Sardis as “DEAD” and called them to “wake up” (Rev 3). Given Christ’s use of the idiomatic term “DEAD” in reference to this church, should we presume that his hearers cannot respond positively to Christ’s appeal in this passage as well?
2) The Prodigal was “DEAD/lost” then “alive/found” demonstrating that the term “DEAD” is idiomatic for “separated by rebellion” not “innate moral inability” (Luke 15:24).
3) “When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.” – James 1:13-15
Are we born “DEAD” according to James? Or is DEATH birthed in those who sin after its “full grown?”
4) “What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.” – Romans 7:7-11
Are we born “DEAD” according to Paul? Or was it through the commandment, after “sin sprang to life” that DEATH came?
5) “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath…And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,” -Ephesians 2:1-3, 6
This passage says nothing about how or when they died, nor does it relate their condition to any type of innate moral inability.
It does say God raised them up with Christ. Is this meant to represent the special inner work of regeneration which effectually causes them to believe after they are raised up? Let’s observe what else Paul says about being raised up in Christ.
“In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which *you were also raised up with Him through faith* in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions” (Col. 2:11-13).
They were raised up THROUGH FAITH, not unto faith according to Paul.
Calvinists have the burden to produce just one clear biblical example of the term “DEAD” meaning “the moral incapacity to respond willingly to God from birth.”soteriology101, Bible Basics 101.
Romans 1 makes it clear God can be understood by an unbelieving world, the dead, the reprobates.
" since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. "
hope this helps !!!
A Biblical Theology of Spiritual Death Scripture reveals various metaphors for sinners who have not yet repented of their sin and trusted in Jesus for their salvation. They are referred to as sick (Matt 9:12), blind (Matt 15:14; 2 Cor 4:4), lovers of darkness (John 3:19), and dead (Luke 15:24; John 5:24; Eph 2:1). Some Christians misinterpret spiritual deadness to mean a person cannot repent of sin and believe in Jesus unless God first grants them faith. However, Scripture does not require that view.145 Rather, such an interpretation says more than Scripture and is contrary to the plain meaning of several texts. Faith is the means of salvation.146 To assert that God grants faith to only some people is to wrongly affirm that God desires only some people to believe in Jesus.147
David L. Allen;Steve W Lemke;; Steve W Lemke. Calvinism: A Biblical and Theological Critique (Kindle Locations 946-954). B&H Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
You do realize this statement reads like
that already believe so that you can know you have
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life,
so that you will believe
and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Ironic isn't it that the translators have use word may that means they are permitted to, or could have the likelihood or possibility
of... rather then a defining statement to these people that the verse already said they believe in the Son of God.
auxiliary verb
- To be allowed or permitted to.
"May I take a swim? Yes, you may." - Used to indicate a certain measure of likelihood or possibility.
"It may rain this afternoon."
Yes, it's ironic that that particular poster hangs on to such a translation, which has men believing so that they may learn they may believe through Paul's writings
Angelo
Administrator
He speaks incoherently in neologisms that don't make any sense.
A neologism is a newly created word or phrase that has not yet been widely accepted into a language. A neologism can be created in response to new cultural or technological developments, or to fill gaps in the lexicon for concepts that were previously unnamed.
The word "neologism" comes from the Greek words "neo" (new) and "logos" (word, speech).
Formal Definition of Neologism
The noun "neologism" has the following meanings:- a new word, meaning, usage, or phrase.
- the introduction or use of new words or new senses of existing words.
- a new doctrine, especially a new interpretation of sacred writings.
- (in the field of Psychiatry) a new word, often consisting of a combination of other words, that is understood only by the speaker: occurring most often in the speech of schizophrenics.
Confessing with the mouth the Lord Jesus and believing in the heart God raised Him from the dead, is the CONDITION for an unsaved person to become saved.
Please explain how an unsaved person becomes saved if not by hearing and believing the gospel.
Obadiah
Active Member
Sounds just like Calvinism to me.A neologism is a newly created word or phrase that has not yet been widely accepted into a language. A neologism can be created in response to new cultural or technological developments, or to fill gaps in the lexicon for concepts that were previously unnamed.
The word "neologism" comes from the Greek words "neo" (new) and "logos" (word, speech).
Formal Definition of Neologism
The noun "neologism" has the following meanings:
Dictionary.com
- a new word, meaning, usage, or phrase.
- the introduction or use of new words or new senses of existing words.
- a new doctrine, especially a new interpretation of sacred writings.
- (in the field of Psychiatry) a new word, often consisting of a combination of other words, that is understood only by the speaker: occurring most often in the speech of schizophrenics.
Similar threads
