Deliverance from Calvinism

[Hosanna]

So you also should consider yourselves to be dead to the power of sin and alive to God through Christ Jesus. Romans 6:11

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Ephesians 2:5-6
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! / And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

1 Peter 2:24
He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. “By His stripes you are healed.”

Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses,

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

2 Timothy 2:11
This is a trustworthy saying: If we died with Him, we will also live with Him;

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. / And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Galatians 5:24
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Ephesians 4:22-24
to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; / to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; / and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Colossians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.

Philippians 1:21
For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

1 Thessalonians 5:10
He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.


Treasury of Scrip

 

[JLB]

They love Romans 9, of course taking that out of its context, saying this is how God chooses someone and doesn’t choose the other, whereas Paul was not talking about people being individually saved.

The context of Romans 9 is clear.

It’s about election according to purpose, not election for salvation.


(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), Romans 9:11


The context of Romans 9 is about God “choosing” the Jews to be the bloodline lineage of the Messiah.


For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:3-5


This is why they are called the “elect”. They were elected for purpose, not elected for salvation.


Salvation is an individual choice to be walked in relationship with God.


Paul earnestly desired for the elect to ALSO obtain salvation.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10

 

[JLB]

Okay, so its a work. Good works follow salvation Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It’s not a “good work” it’s obedience to the Gospel command repent.

Confessing Jesus as Lord is how an unsaved person BECOMES saved.


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?”
Romans 10:16

 

[JLB]

Its also absurd to believe dead things choose to come alive. We are talking Spiritual life here.

How did the son become alive again?


for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.
Luke 15:24


The son was alive again when he chose to repent and returned to his father in humility.

Then he was restored.


Do the lost need salvation?

 

[brightfame52]

It’s not a “good work” it’s obedience to the Gospel command repent.

This is good works also

 

[TomL]

Giving life to the dead, man is passive when the Spirit makes him alive. Thats like saying the dead lazarus cooperated with Jesus giving him physical life from the dead, while he was dead and stinketh. He was passive

You continue to ignore scripture

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

It is through believing one is made alive.

 

[civic]

You continue to ignore scripture

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

It is through believing one is made alive.

yep

 

[brightfame52]

You continue to ignore scripture

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

It is through believing one is made alive.

That's the regenerate Sheep and they were living Spiritually when written to

 

[TomL]

That's the regenerate Sheep and they were living Spiritually when written to

Absurd

that you imagine God is telling regenerate sheep how they might have life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[brightfame52]

Absurd

that you imagine God is telling regenerate sheep how they might have life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

That's a letter written to the saints the regenerate

 

[TomL]

That's a letter written to the saints the regenerate

Absurd

that you imagine God is telling regenerate sheep how they might have life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[brightfame52]

Absurd

that you imagine God is telling regenerate sheep how they might have life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Epistles and letters are written to regenerate and even believers already. John wrote to believers this 1 Jn 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[TomL]

Epistles and letters are written to regenerate and even believers already. John wrote to believers this 1 Jn 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Absurd

that you imagine God is telling regenerate sheep how they might have life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[brightfame52]

Absurd

that you imagine God is telling regenerate sheep how they might have life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

So he wrote to believers that they may believe 1 Jn 5 13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[TomL]

So he wrote to believers that they may believe 1 Jn 5 13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:13 (LEB) — 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 (UASV) — 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 (ESV) — 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 (NIV84) — 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 (LSB) — 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 (NASB95) — 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Angelo]

How I Was Delivered Out of Calvinism - My Personal Testimony​

Warren McGrew of Idol Killer shares his testimony, exploring how he became a Calvinist, his time as an adherent of the "Doctrines of Grace" (the 5 points of TULIP) and what led him to walk away - NOT from Christ and Christianity, but from Calvinism and Reformed Theology.

 

[praise_yeshua]

There are different perspectives on death in this thread. I disagree with most of them. If I start a thread on defining death in the context of Adam and Eve's experience, who would like to participate?

I don't want to happen what happened last time but I do want to meaningfully discuss this issue.

Let me know. Thanks

 

[Presby02]

How did the son become alive again?


for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.
Luke 15:24


The son was alive again when he chose to repent and returned to his father in humility.

Then he was restored.


Do the lost need salvation?

So your saying he was saved, became unsaved, only to be saved again?

 

[Presby02]

A physically dead man can do nothing.

Will you claim a spiritually dead man can do nothing?

The spiritually dead man cannot do evil?

Reject God and the Gospel?

Nowhere in scripture do we read that man is first made alive so that he might believe and, as a result, gain life.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Here, however, we see the purpose of scripture.

It is that you might believe

And as a result of believing you might have life

So life flows to those who first believed.

He can do nothing Spiritually, yup. Again, you might be getting it.

 

[Presby02]

Why did Jesus speak in parables if calvinism is correct regarding " dead " ?

We hear this all of the time comparing mans unregenerate state to that of Lazarus in the tomb in reformed/calvinist teachings.

The fact is calvinism's view on dead is wrong otherwise there would be no need to hide it from them. Why does Jesus need to hide truth from a dead corpse ?

See the contradiction ?

See the oxymoron ?

See the calvinists dilemma ?

Let’s look at the uses of the term “DEAD” in the scripture for you to decide:

1) Jesus referred to the church in Sardis as “DEAD” and called them to “wake up” (Rev 3). Given Christ’s use of the idiomatic term “DEAD” in reference to this church, should we presume that his hearers cannot respond positively to Christ’s appeal in this passage as well?

2) The Prodigal was “DEAD/lost” then “alive/found” demonstrating that the term “DEAD” is idiomatic for “separated by rebellion” not “innate moral inability” (Luke 15:24).

3) “When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.”‭‭ – James‬ ‭1:13-15‬ ‭

Are we born “DEAD” according to James? Or is DEATH birthed in those who sin after its “full grown?”

4) “What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.”‭‭ – Romans‬ ‭7:7-11‬ ‭

Are we born “DEAD” according to Paul? Or was it through the commandment, after “sin sprang to life” that DEATH came?

5) “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath…And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,” -‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1-3, 6‬

This passage says nothing about how or when they died, nor does it relate their condition to any type of innate moral inability.

It does say God raised them up with Christ. Is this meant to represent the special inner work of regeneration which effectually causes them to believe after they are raised up? Let’s observe what else Paul says about being raised up in Christ.

“In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which *you were also raised up with Him through faith* in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions” (Col. 2:11-13).

They were raised up THROUGH FAITH, not unto faith according to Paul.

Calvinists have the burden to produce just one clear biblical example of the term “DEAD” meaning “the moral incapacity to respond willingly to God from birth.”soteriology101, Bible Basics 101.

Romans 1 makes it clear God can be understood by an unbelieving world, the dead, the reprobates.

" since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. "

hope this helps !!!

Define dead.