Daniel's 70 weeks and the Messiah

[SteveB]

Sorry you are in denial

Scripture shows it is after the 1000 years the wicked are judged and sent to eternal punishment

And where are they held until they experience eternal punishment? Is there a prison cell, or are they allowed to roam freely in the Kingdom?

Scofield agreed with that as well,

Oh, well... gee! I guess that makes Scofield God.

Mat 25:31ff says nothing at all about a 1000 year millennium

It's ok Tom. I understand that you lack the ability to read, learn, reason and think clearly.
This would be a whole lot less painful for you if you'd stop forcing the sum total of eschatology into single passages.

Sorry your refusal to discuss the evidence and decision to discuss me instead shows you do not have a leg to stand on

You're not discussing anything.
You're demanding.
You're acting like the atheists over on CARM. A petulant, spoiled, entitled child.

 

[TomL]

And where are they held until they experience eternal punishment? Is there a prison cell, or are they allowed to roam freely in the Kingdom?

Your problem which you are not dealing with they are sent to eternal punishment after Christs return

Matthew 25:31–41 (KJV 1900) — 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

It not an earthly millenium for a 1000 years they are sent to but the everlasting fire

and according to revelation they are sent to the everlasting fire after the 1000 years

Revelation 20:7–15 (KJV 1900) — 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Mat 25 says nothing at all about an earthly millenium

rather it shows at Christ return all the wicked are sent to the eternal fire and the righteous received eternal life,

and according to 1cor 15 receive immortal resurrected bodies

so how are you populating an earthly millenium with mortal humans

when the wicked are sent to the eternal fire and the righteous are immortal

Oh, well... gee! I guess that makes Scofield God.

LOL I would think Scofield understands the dispensational system better than you do

It's ok Tom. I understand that you lack the ability to read, learn, reason and think clearly.
This would be a whole lot less painful for you if you'd stop forcing the sum total of eschatology into single passages.

Laughable

your inability to address the arguments and scripture I post shows you are in denial

your ad hominem is deleted

 

[SteveB]

Your problem which you are not dealing with they are sent to eternal punishment after Christs return

My problem, as you call it, is that you pay absolutely no attention.
But thank you for failing to actually answer my question.

Matthew 25:31–41 (KJV 1900) — 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Congratulations! You answered your own question.

It not an earthly millenium for a 1000 years they are sent to but the everlasting fire

Then why do you find it necessary to gripe at me for the views I hold?

and according to revelation they are sent to the everlasting fire after the 1000 years

Revelation 20:7–15 (KJV 1900) — 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Mat 25 says nothing at all about an earthly millenium

rather it shows at Christ return all the wicked are sent to the eternal fire and the righteous received eternal life,

and according to 1cor 15 receive immortal resurrected bodies

so how are you populating an earthly millenium with mortal humans

when the wicked are sent to the eternal fire and the righteous are immortal








LOL I would think Scofield understands the dispensational system better than you do




Laughable

your inability to address the arguments and scripture I post shows you are in denial

your ad hominem is deleted

Pity, you clearly need to build a case against me.
Ironically, you were given the opportunity to wipe the dust off your feet, and wash your hands of me yesterday, but you clearly refused... not failed.... but absolutely refused to take the hint.

Clearly you enjoy seeing your words posted on a digital medium.
Pity you don't actually enjoy talking WITH people as much.

 

[TomL]

My problem, as you call it, is that you pay absolutely no attention.
But thank you for failing to actually answer my question.





Congratulations! You answered your own question.


Then why do you find it necessary to gripe at me for the views I hold?


Pity, you clearly need to build a case against me.
Ironically, you were given the opportunity to wipe the dust off your feet, and wash your hands of me yesterday, but you clearly refused... not failed.... but absolutely refused to take the hint.

Clearly you enjoy seeing your words posted on a digital medium.
Pity you don't actually enjoy talking WITH people as much.

Duh you claimed Mat 25:31 introduces an earthly millennium

hello

Rather it shows at Christs return the wicked are judged and sent to the eternal fire

while 1cor 15 shows at Christs return the righteous are resurrected immortal

so you have no mortal beings to enter an earthly millenium

Hello

 

[SteveB]

Duh you claimed Mat 25:31 introduces an earthly millennium

hello

Rather it shows at Christs return the wicked are judged and sent to the eternal fire

while 1cor 15 shows at Christs return the righteous are resurrected immortal

so you have no mortal beings to enter an earthly millenium

Hello

Well Hello Tom.
How are you.

Now, since you have the appearance of listening, let's try it this way.

Why should I care about your views on eschatology?
If your views, as you claim, are based on the bible, why can't I just read the Bible for myself and then decide how it all goes together?

 

[TomL]

Well Hello Tom.
How are you.

Now, since you have the appearance of listening, let's try it this way.

If your views, as you claim, are based on the bible, why can't I just read the Bible for myself and then decide how it all goes together?

because I am quoting scripture and not opinion

That should be enough reason for a bible believer to address what has been stated

 

[SteveB]

because I am quoting scripture and not opinion

Actually, your opinions are all wrapped up in your quotes, as is demonstrated by your refusal to actually consider what I've previously stated.
So, since you clearly have nothing that differs from my views, I'd say that you are no longer necessary for me to learn.

That should be enough reason for a bible believer to address what has been stated

Already had.
You dismissed it, and turned this whole discussion into an argument that has gone far beyond what's needed.

 

[TomL]

Actually, your opinions are all wrapped up in your quotes, as is demonstrated by your refusal to actually consider what I've previously stated.
So, since you clearly have nothing that differs from my views, I'd say that you are no longer necessary for me to learn.

Already had.
You dismissed it, and turned this whole discussion into an argument that has gone far beyond what's needed.

No actually you did not

Mat 25 never speaks of a millenium

it shows all receive their eternal destiny at Christ's return

in particular the unrighteous go into the eternal fire which according to revelation is after the 1000 years

from various ops i have shown that at Christ's return

all are judged

The new heaven and earth are ushered in

General Universal resurrection transpires

Christs reign ends with the defeat of the last enemy death at Christs return.

 

[SteveB]

No actually you did not

Not according to you. But as I read it, you're just another person who is as fallible as you claim I am.
So I see no reason to believe that you're actually an accurate observer.

Mat 25 never speaks of a millenium

Pity you've chosen to ignore Revelation 20.

Rev 20:6 WEB Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.

it shows all receive their eternal destiny at Christ's return

in particular the unrighteous go into the eternal fire which according to revelation is after the 1000 years

from various ops i have shown that at Christ's return

From various ops...
Gee... so you use only Matthew 25 in all those ops, and somehow you have definitively proven beyond all doubt that you're right.

all are judged

Revelation 20

The new heaven and earth are ushered in

Revelation 21.

General Universal resurrection transpires

Revelation 20....
Curious.
How does this event predate Revelation 21, but happens after Revelation 21?

Christs reign ends with the defeat of the last enemy death at Christs return.

Ok. Using your habit... I don't see where that is stated in Matthew 25.
Perhaps you can show me that verse in Matthew 25.

 

[TomL]

Not according to you. But as I read it, you're just another person who is as fallible as you claim I am.
So I see no reason to believe that you're actually an accurate observer.

Pity you've chosen to ignore Revelation 20.

I have not ignored it at all

It shows the wicked are sent to the fire after the 1000 years

If the wicked are cast into the fire at Christ's coming what does that say about the 1000 years

It's not hard

Rev 20:6 WEB Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.

Tribulation martyrs not a general resurrection

says nothing about when they reign with Christ that is when the 1000 years transpire in relation to Christ's coming

From various ops...
Gee... so you use only Matthew 25 in all those ops, and somehow you have definitively proven beyond all doubt that you're right.

You must have not read, for I use many passages

Revelation 20

Revelation 21.

Revelation 20....
Curious.
How does this event predate Revelation 21, but happens after Revelation 21?

who stated any such thing

Revelation 21 (KJV 1900) — 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

death has already passed away

Ok. Using your habit... I don't see where that is stated in Matthew 25.
Perhaps you can show me that verse in Matthew 25.

again you failed to read the op

it is 1cor 15 which shows that

 

[SteveB]

I have not ignored it at all

It shows the wicked are sent to the fire after the 1000 years

If the wicked are cast into the fire at Christ's coming what does that say about the 1000 years

It's not hard





Tribulation martyrs not a general resurrection

says nothing about when they reign with Christ that is when the 1000 years transpire in relation to Christ's coming




You must have not read, for I use many passages


who stated any such thing

Revelation 21 (KJV 1900) — 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

death has already passed away


again you failed to read the op

it is 1cor 15 which shows that

Yeah, the problem isn't that I haven't previously read, or even used the same passages.
But as I previously stated, you're wound so tightly, trying to win an argument, that you've repeatedly ignored things I've stated, passages corroborating my points, and I didn't sign up on this forum to play games with people like you.

So, again... have a great day.

 

[TomL]

Yeah, the problem isn't that I haven't previously read, or even used the same passages.
But as I previously stated, you're wound so tightly, trying to win an argument, that you've repeatedly ignored things I've stated, passages corroborating my points, and I didn't sign up on this forum to play games with people like you.

So, again... have a great day.

Sorry you have been refuted time and time again

you are unwilling to be corrected by scripture so you address me instead

Mat 25 does not speak of a millenium

it speaks of all going to their eternal destinies at Christ's coming

you can't make a millennium out of that

and it is after the 1000 years that we see all go to their eternal destinies in Revelation

 

[SteveB]

Sorry you have been refuted time and time again

you are unwilling to be corrected by scripture so you address me instead

Mat 25 does not speak of a millenium

it speaks of all going to their eternal destinies at Christ's coming

you can't make a millennium out of that

and it is after the 1000 years that we see all go to their eternal destinies in Revelation

Then you have succeeded in giving yourself the opportunity to wipe the dust off your feet, and wash your hands.

Ciao!

 

[TomL]

Then you have succeeded in giving yourself the opportunity to wipe the dust off your feet, and wash your hands.

Ciao!

I will not let you go so easily as you have an obvious need for correction.

 

[SteveB]

I will not let you go so easily as you have an obvious need for correction.

Ah! And here it is!
Thank you for corroborating the point I stated several days ago, several times.

What makes you think that you have a right to correct me?
That you are convinced you do demonstrates the magnitude of your arrogance.


Rom 14:4 WEB Who are you who judge another’s servant? To his own lord he stands or falls. Yes, he will be made to stand, for God has power to make him stand.

You overstep your bounds.

Since however you have repeatedly demonstrated that you don't actually know how to read, reason or think clearly,

Gal 6:1-5 WEB 1 Brothers, even if a man is caught in some fault, you who are spiritual must restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, looking to yourself so that you also aren’t tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if a man thinks himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each man examine his own work, and then he will have reason to boast in himself, and not in someone else. 5 For each man will bear his own burden.

You have neither demonstrated gentleness, nor humility, nor sought to first understand.

You came in and pushed people around and acted like this was your sandbox and you're the king of the world.

@Administrator,
Feel free to handle this in whatever way you see fitting.
You can disregard my last request of you.

 

[TomL]

Ah! And here it is!
Thank you for corroborating the point I stated several days ago, several times.

What makes you think that you have a right to correct me?
That you are convinced you do demonstrates the magnitude of your arrogance.

Your ignoring of scripture and the nature of forums such as these

Everyone has the right to challenge another's theology

You can either defend it or fail to do so

Rom 14:4 WEB Who are you who judge another’s servant? To his own lord he stands or falls. Yes, he will be made to stand, for God has power to make him stand.

You overstep your bounds.

Since however you have repeatedly demonstrated that you don't actually know how to read, reason or think clearly,

seeing as you were repeatedly found to be at odds with scripture, you appear to be projecting

but I have not judged your eternal destiny or the quality of your servitude

I have judged what you claim regarding the scriptures.

so you misapply the verse you quote.

 

[SteveB]

Your ignoring of scripture and the nature of forums such as these

No. Actually...
I'm ignoring YOU.

Everyone has the right to challenge another's theology

Indeed.
And since you have repeatedly demonstrated that you are above being challenged, i simply reject your entire monolog.

You can either defend it or fail to do so

Sad.
You're too bigoted to see the 3rd.

seeing as you were repeatedly found to be at odds with scripture, you appear to be projecting

ogmf course i am. You live so high on your horse, you could never actually be guilty of anything. Especially rudeness, arrogance, dismissively ignoring when people explain why they no longer have any interest in dealing with you.

but I have not judged your eternal destiny or the quality of your servitude

Oh but you have. Obviously not in terms you fathom.

I have judged what you claim regarding the scriptures.

You have utterly failed here, because you previously decided that you alone know everything and anyone who fails to agree with you is in dire need of being saved.

so you misapply the verse you quote.

Of course.
Because it's beneath you.

 

[TomL]

No. Actually...
I'm ignoring YOU.


Indeed.
And since you have repeatedly demonstrated that you are above being challenged, i simply reject your entire monolog.

Sad.
You're too bigoted to see the 3rd.

ogmf course i am. You live so high on your horse, you could never actually be guilty of anything. Especially rudeness, arrogance, dismissively ignoring when people explain why they no longer have any interest in dealing with you.

Oh but you have. Obviously not in terms you fathom.


You have utterly failed here, because you previously decided that you alone know everything and anyone who fails to agree with you is in dire need of being saved.

Of course.
Because it's beneath you.

There you go with the ad hominem

Seems you cannot handle being corrected by scripture so you lash out at the person

The fact is you were given scripture you have been unable to rebut.

PS i never challenged your salvation so why did you post such a false claim

Falsehoods do not advance your position

Further when someone challenges your theology the proper thing to do is defend it biblically

 

[SteveB]

There you go with the ad hominem

Seems you cannot handle being corrected by scripture so you lash out at the person

The fact is you were given scripture you have been unable to rebut.

PS i never challenged your salvation so why did you post such a false claim

Falsehoods do not advance your position

Further when someone challenges your theology the proper thing to do is defend it biblically

Case in point.
Thank you for repeatedly providing me with corroborating evidence to my point.

It's really quite sad too.
This was a topic I actually enjoy talking about.
But, when people come along and need to make it an argument they absolutely need to win.

 

[TomL]

Case in point.
Thank you for repeatedly providing me with corroborating evidence to my point.

It's really quite sad too.
This was a topic I actually enjoy talking about.
But, when people come along and need to make it an argument they absolutely need to win.

Sorry but you appear not to recognize yourself.

Nor did you correct your false claim about challenging your salvation.

I do not argue that way, I present scripture

If you thought them false all you had to do was rebut them.