Comparing Calvinism, Arminianism, and Molinism

[The Rogue Tomato]

God made man with the ability for faith

Faith comes from hearing the word of God

Nowhere do we read God infuses or effectually, unilaterally causes faith in man.

You skipped a step. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing [comes by] the word of God/Christ.

You don't get to shorten that to Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Changing scripture is dangerous. Satan tried it, but Jesus knew the parts of Satan's quotes that were missing.

 

[Presby02]

You skipped a step. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing [comes by] the word of God/Christ.

You don't get to shorten that to Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Changing scripture is dangerous. Satan tried it, but Jesus knew the parts of Satan's quotes that were missing.

Exactly. Comes from where is the question.

 

[civic]

You skipped a step. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing [comes by] the word of God/Christ.

You don't get to shorten that to Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Changing scripture is dangerous. Satan tried it, but Jesus knew the parts of Satan's quotes that were missing.

Lets dismantle the strawman.

how did Abraham believe prior to the Pentateuch ?

and why was Abraham used by Jesus and the Apostles in the N.T. as our example ?

was no one saved before Moses ?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You skipped a step. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing [comes by] the word of God/Christ.

You don't get to shorten that to Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Changing scripture is dangerous. Satan tried it, but Jesus knew the parts of Satan's quotes that were missing.

Really? There is no difference.

Rom 10:17 Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ.

Is that better for you?

You fabricating a distinction that isn't there. Why are you adding to the Scriptures?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Exactly. Comes from where is the question.

Not......

Rom 10:17 Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Lets dismantle the strawman.

how did Abraham believe prior to the Pentateuch ?

and why was Abraham used by Jesus and the Apostles in the N.T. as our example ?

was no one saved before Moses ?

I had faith in the Scriptures and believed the record God gave of His Son long before I ever was actually saved. A very long time.

Such is true of most anyone.

 

[TomL]

You skipped a step. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing [comes by] the word of God/Christ.

You don't get to shorten that to Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Changing scripture is dangerous. Satan tried it, but Jesus knew the parts of Satan's quotes that were missing.

Sorry the second repetition is not a statement of the impartation of a gift of faith

It simply notes the faith concerned with here is based on God's word, Ironically it is you who have added to the word of God

 

[TomL]

just like God made man with the ability to love, obey freely with mans will- the free will.

And he does not determine who we do love or effectually cause us to always obey

 

[Presby02]

Not......

Rom 10:17 Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ.

Comes from where?

 

[TomL]

Comes from where?

From the God given ability to have faith though his creation

 

[civic]

And he does not determine who we do love or effectually cause us to always obey

Amen

 

[Presby02]

From the God given ability to have faith though his creation

That does not tell where it comes from.

 

[TomL]

That does not tell where it comes from.

What part of creation do you not understand

Man has the ability for speech. Where did he get it?

Man has the ability to walk upright. Where did he get it?

To see? To hear?

If man has the ability for faith it came from the same place - creation by god

It's where man gets all his abilities

 

[Presby02]

What part of creation do you not understand

Man has the ability for speech. Where did he get it?

Man has the ability to walk upright. Where did he get it?

To see? To hear?

If man has the ability for faith it came from the same place - creation by god

It's where man gets all his abilities

God, His or her creator.

Then faith is a gift of God as life itself is.

 

[civic]

God, His or her creator.

Then faith is a gift of God as life itself is.

man can choose to believe or not believe thats mans decision

 

[civic]

God, His or her creator.

Then faith is a gift of God as life itself is.

is unbelief a gift ?

is sin a gift ?

 

[Presby02]

man can choose to believe or not believe thats mans decision

Sure, the natural ability.

 

[civic]

Sure, the natural ability.

then unbelief is also a gift ?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

man can choose to believe or not believe thats mans decision

Wrong. I've illustrated this by asking for people to choose to believe that their left sock will bring them fame and riches. You can't do it, because it's not a choice. You can't choose to believe in something you know is not true.

Faith is based on a revealed truth, and the only way you can recognize the Gospel is truth is if God opens your eyes to it. Faith comes by hearing and hearing [comes by] the word of God/Christ. In other words, if you don't have true hearing, then hearing the Gospel won't enable you to believe it.

 

[TomL]

God, His or her creator.

Then faith is a gift of God as life itself is.

But not an exclusive gift that God gives some people and withholds from others

Nor is it infused or effectually caused, Rather he gives the ability for faith and man then is responsible to employ it properly