Christians are not under the OT Law

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Which of the 613 Laws of Moses would you like to keep, and which would you like to avoid, today?

Oh that's right, you could not name 267 of them, or even 66 of them, but you want to talk about the Law as if you have a clue.
You dont. @Pancho Frijoles

The better question , and believe you me this gonna sting and piss off a lot of folks , IS
IF ONE TRULY HAS THE LOVE of GOD shed by the HOLY GHOST upon their hearts
WOULD THAT LOVE have us call evil good and good evil . WOULD that LOVE
have called ANY SIN good . DIDNT THINK SO .
The true believer in JESUS THE CHRIST , YEAH NOT BUDDA Or some other satanic religoin , has THE TRUE HOLY SPIRIT
upon his or her heart . And the LOVE OF GOD sure dont teach us to embrace what HE calls evil . NOW DO IT .
WHY AM I SEEING rainbows in churches . WHY I AM seeing many who claim to have the SPIRIT of GOD , HIS LOVE
upon their hearts , TWISTING HIS OWN WORDS , DENYING HIS TRUTH and serving that which they flesh desired .
WHY . cause THEY ARE THE LOST who KNOW NOT GOD
who have the love of the world , YET BELIEVE ITS THE LOVE OF GOD , upon their hearts . THEY aint fooling GOD .
I repeat they aint fooling GOD . THEMSELVE they fool and also the decieved they do fool .
But the sheep HEED NOT A WORD ONE outta they lips . CAUSE GOD HAS THE SHEEP . BIBLE TIME for one
and BIBLE TIME for all .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

You long have held to the error that when "Christian" is mentioned you think of Gentiles but there is no record of non-Hebrew Gentiles being born-again and being Gentile.
At Pentecost three thousand Jews attending the Jewish Feast of Harves lived in Jerusalem and throughout Israel as well as visitors from all over the Roman Empire. All one need do is understand the languages that the eleven disciples were speaking:

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. Acts 2:6–11.

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These Jews were speaking at least seventeen dialects and languages. And when these Jews returned home on Roman roads they took with them a summary of Peter's sermon, the Holy Spirit of Promise (PROMISED TO ISRAEL - Joel), and their experiences and testimony of Jesus of Nazareth, Israel's claimed King and Messiah and the Prophet like unto Moses. Only Jews were at this celebration. Uncircumcised, unclean, Gentiles were not invited nor were they present. And these three thousand newly born-again Jews became Christian or Christ-followers. All Jews that looked forward to the arrival of their Messiah were Christian (Messiah.) Acts 2:47 says Jesus added to His Church hundreds and thousands daily such as should be saved. With the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise Israel entered the era of the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah. And it took them time to reason out the Scripture and come to understand more and more each day about the New Covenant era Israel found themselves in.

The subject matter where "we are under grace and not the Law" has SIN as the subject Saul was writing about.
Sin.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14.

Yes, there may have been religious leaders and Jews in general that may have held that their justification came from the Law until Saul - maybe Apollos and others - rightly understood that as far as their being born-again it is in this event of their new birth that was their justification and God declared them "Not Guilty!" because of what Jesus accomplished on the cross. And just because the only writings we have are Saul's Roman letter (AD 64) doesn't mean that from Pentecost (AD 32) going forward that some might have under stood in their enlightening of the Spirit things that Saul would later write about. Priests were being born-again and these men knew the Scripture. Jesus' promise that "when He is come He shall guide you into all truth" (Jn. 16:13) applied to them also. The building of the Church did not wait until Saul came on the scene with his journey's and letter-writing, especially when he penned:

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Tim. 3:16–17.

I'm sure there were many that understood that obeying the Law upon one's own obedience did not bring justification, but it was after they were born-again and God declared them "Not Guilty!" they looked to the Law for "instruction in righteousness" (right living.) Remember, after the road to Damascus Saul disappeared for about 14-17 years to study as a rabbi and Pharisee would study. That how he received his "revelation" (Gal. 1.) When we study under the anointing like Saul the Lord gives us revelation of His Word just the same.

I'm sure the Lord illuminated His people to understand "justification" and the declaration later by Saul that the Law is established in the New Covenant era in the Holy Spirit.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom. 3:31.

Who are the one's that awaited Messiah (Christ)? The Hebrews/Jews.
Who are the first and original Messiah-ites/Christians?
The Hebrews/Jews.
And Jesus added Jews to His Church daily such as should be saved: Jews.
And they remained under the Law under a new dynamic having been born again of the Spirit.

Rather odd indeed your reasoning has become .
Rahab was no jew . BUT GOD had her saved due to her faith in HIM .
GOD be no respector of persons padnah . TO he who beleiveth on JESUS the CHRIST
WHICH MEANS THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVED GOD , HIS TESTIMONY OF CHRIST
and are not lip only but beleive from the heart , SALVATION to all .
But unto all whether born a jew or gentile who rejects THE SON , THEY JUST REJECTED GOD WHO SENT HIM . THEY gonna burn alive
You preach a flesh only related gospel . meaning IF ANYONE was born with hebrew blood
somehow they gonna be the ones saved and brought to Christ . FRIEND you dont know how often
BOTH GOD , The PROPHETS , CHRIST , the apostels would have proved you DEAD WRONG .
Something has went wrong in your mind . And while i might not know the depths of what it is
FRIEND I DO KNOW its went wrong .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

The OT Law WAS love God and love your neighbor, that's what Jesus said.

The moral Law is binding on all flesh, that's why it stops every mouth as guilty.

Christ did not just free us from the ceremonial law—he freed us from the obligation to be morally perfect.

WHO did the apostels set the mark upon as HOW we should walk . was it like so called men
OR WAS IT LIKE CHRIST .
NOW do ya really believe THAT JESUS sinned . WELL I DIDNT THINK SO
If JOHN wrote and said HE who says HE believes walks AS HE DID
THEN YOU TELL ME , DID JESUS DESIRE TO SIN . DIDNT THINK SO .
SO our DESIRE , OUR NEW GOD GIVEN DESIRE
that comes of GOD should be , OH LET US DESIRE TO PLEASE THE LORD . Cause that be the desires HE DO PUT INTO US .
AND SIN DONT PLEASE GOD friend .
TIME to set the mark of our walk upon the WALK of HOW CHRIST WALKED . HE BE THE HIGH AND GREAT EXAMPLE
OF HOW WE SHOULD WALK .
AND IF ONE HAS the SPIRIT that beautiful and HOLY , take heed to that word , HOLY , SPIRIT
which SPIRIT IS OF CHRIST OF GOD , man that SPIRIT sure wont be leading us to do that which pleases the flesh
but rather THAT WHICH PLEASES GOD . and SIN , YES I SAID SIN , DONT PLEASE , nor is it pleasing to GOD .
BIBLE TIME friends . For if a man rejoices not , loveth not TRUTH , LOVES NOT the GOD INSPIRED WORDS
of TRUTH , THEN I TELL US ALL THEY HAVE NO LOVE FOR GOD WHO INSPIRED SUCH WORDS .
That is gonna anger some deeply , cause great fear for others which will soon turn as hate towards those who remind .
BUT FRIEND ITS TRUTH . ANd i highly suggest we bible up for our selves too .

 

[Dizerner]

I struggle to understand your point.

Remember, Scripture says if you break just one law you have broken them all.

The Law condemns everyone, you don't want to be under it.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

I struggle to understand your point.

Remember, Scripture says if you break just one law you have broken them all.

The Law condemns everyone, you don't want to be under it.

if one justifies themself by the law , by their deeds , THEY UNDER IT .
THERE be ONLY ONE way to be justified . NOW HIS NAME BE JESUS THE CHRIST
and its time again for this church age to begin preaching THAT NAME .
Now since i did bring up the NAME OF JESUS and the DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
let me add one thing . IT BETTER BE THE BIBLICAL VERSION of JESUS THE CHRIST , OF HIS WORDS
we be a loving . cause if we heeding men who twist such words , MAN ITS NOT HIM WE BE A LOVING and BELIEVING
its MEN we be beleiving . now that is again gonna anger some , cause fear in some .
But before anyone stones the messenger , TRY OPENING up THE BIBLE to learn HIS WORDS and later the apostels words
SEE what THEY SAID . and they talked of learning the holy scriptures as well . I SAY BIBLE TIME , but hey thats me .

 

[jeremiah1five]

As usual men made stuff .
Try reading the prayer of solomon friend . Go on peek at it . Exactly .

Unable or unwilling to answer.
The Word of God triumphs again.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Rather odd indeed your reasoning has become .
Rahab was no jew . BUT GOD had her saved due to her faith in HIM .
GOD be no respector of persons padnah . TO he who beleiveth on JESUS the CHRIST
WHICH MEANS THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVED GOD , HIS TESTIMONY OF CHRIST
and are not lip only but beleive from the heart , SALVATION to all .
But unto all whether born a jew or gentile who rejects THE SON , THEY JUST REJECTED GOD WHO SENT HIM . THEY gonna burn alive
You preach a flesh only related gospel . meaning IF ANYONE was born with hebrew blood
somehow they gonna be the ones saved and brought to Christ . FRIEND you dont know how often
BOTH GOD , The PROPHETS , CHRIST , the apostels would have proved you DEAD WRONG .
Something has went wrong in your mind . And while i might not know the depths of what it is
FRIEND I DO KNOW its went wrong .

Show me Scripture describing God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
From what I read in Scripture God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and with his Hebrew seed.

Here is the beginning of the redemption of God's elect people. It began with a man from the family of Eber of whom the Jews receive as the beginning of a separated people unto God which resulted in formal covenant with Abram and with his Hebrew seed, a people to be known as the children of Israel:

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:5–7.

The Mosaic Covenant is found beginning in Exodus and God builds upon the Abraham Covenant and gives His Law(s) to Abraham's seed through Isaac and Jacob and then to Jacob's twelve sons who are called the children of Israel.

And God completes Israel's redemption begin with Abraham and completed in Christ who initiated the final covenant to actually in time redeem God's Chosen people called the New Covenant which came with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise (PROMISED TO ISRAEL - Joel.)

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:33–34.

After his conversion Saul disappeared for about 14-17 years to study the Hebrew Scripture, to consult his rabbinical education as a Pharisee and returned with a concluded fact:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we (JEWS) might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:3–5.

A covenant in blood. Life is in the blood and Jesus was provided a body and fulfilled the Father's will.
These things are bible. You haven't provided even one passage that reveals God made similar covenant of salvation for non-Hebrew Gentiles.
Not one.
I take the Word of God is written and only what is written, and if it is not chapter and verse then it is chatter or worse.

 

[Soyeong]

I struggle to understand your point.

Remember, Scripture says if you break just one law you have broken them all.

The Law condemns everyone, you don't want to be under it.

If you break any law and become a lawbreaker, then you need to repent and return to obedience, which is what James was encouraging them to do. God's law only condemns those who refuse to submit to it, so you don't want to refuse to submit to it. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, and in Romans 8:1, there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ, so there is only no condemnation for those who are following his example of walking in obedience to it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I struggle to understand your point.

Remember, Scripture says if you break just one law you have broken them all.

The Law condemns everyone, you don't want to be under it.

The children of Israel are under the Law - even today.
The children of Israel are the elect of God and predestined to redemption and began to populate the Church Christ promised to build beginning on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest also known as Pentecost.

You are correct that in failing to obey one Law precept (pertaining to the children of Israel) that they were by definition also guilty of failing to obey ALL Law precepts. However, since Pentecost the children of Israel that become born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL the dynamic of the Law upon the new-born believer is changed.
When a natural Olive tree Israelite became born again, they became spiritual Olive tree Israel.
Saul said in Romans 7 "the Law is spiritual." When born again, the person becomes spiritual as well.
The reason why "the letter of the Law killeth" was because the person before being born again was natural, of the flesh, and so the Law which was spiritual killed a flesh-person. Thus, the Law which was spiritual cannot kill that which has become spiritual.

This is how the dynamic of the Law upon both a natural, flesh person (before being born again) and a spiritual person (after being born again) occurred.

An Israelite that became born-again is declared "Not Guilty!" by God of not breaking the Law and this is their justification. God sees the person and all born-again persons as being "Not Guilty!" of breaking any precept of the Law because of what Jesus did in fulfilling every precept of the Law and when we are born-again that work by Christ is applied to God's elect.
Thus, all Israelites are under the Law as a natural, flesh person and a spiritual born-again person and now that the penalty of the Law for breaking the Law has been paid for by Christ, and Christ is in the person, they are seen as God as He sees Christ and that is fulfilling every aspect of the Law perfectly and if perfectly, then where is their sin of breaking the Law if Christ paid the penalty which is death.
NOW, as a born-again believer an Israelite still MUST be obedient to the Law of Moses but the penalty for failing is removed and the person enjoys the blessings of life and liberty as long as relationally, when they fail God, they confess and repent and do better the next time when seeking the grace of God with all their hearts ("life.")

The Israelite must still "not have other gods before [them]" and "not take the Name of the LORD in vain", etc.

Do you understand?

 

[Dizerner]

there is only no condemnation for those who are following his example of walking in obedience to it.

We are not justified by the law.

Period.

We should strive to keep the law but not for this reason, ever.

 

[jeremiah1five]

We are not justified by the law.

Period.

We do strive to keep the law but not for this reason, ever.

Then upon what are we justified as being declared by God as being "Not Guilty!" of? Roman law?

 

[Dizerner]

Do you understand?

Everyone not trusting in the suffering of Christ for their sins is under the law of obligation to fulfill it themselves.

I hope you understand that salvation is by grace alone through faith.

 

[Dizerner]

Then upon what are we justified

Faith in the suffering of Christ on the Cross for your sins!!!!

 

[Soyeong]

We are not justified by the law.

Period.

We should strive to keep the law but not for this reason, ever.

I agree, God's law was never given as a way of trying to earn our justification. Everyone who has faith will be justified and everyone who has faith is a doer of God's law, which is how Paul can deny in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our justification as the result of our works while also affirming in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the law will be justified.

 

[Dizerner]

Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the law will be justified.

No, you are a little confused on that. Paul was pointing out that there is only two ways to be justified, and one is impossible.

You mention the law "was not given" as a way to be justified, this is imprecise. The Law was given to show what is necessary for justification.

The Law is not unrelated to the way of salvation as it shows us only two ways to be justified: perfection or grace.

For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal. 3:21-24 NKJ)

A tutor to lead you to Christ. And Galatians warns us not to go back under it again or we forfeit that grace we had.

 

[Soyeong]

No, you are a little confused on that. Paul was pointing out that there is only two ways to be justified, and one is impossible.

You mention the law "was not given" as a way to be justified, this is imprecise. The Law was given to show what is necessary for justification.

The Law is not unrelated to the way of salvation as it shows us only two ways to be justified: perfection or grace.

For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal. 3:21-24 NKJ)

A tutor to lead you to Christ. And Galatians warns us not to go back under it again or we forfeit that grace we had.

If something is impossible, then it is not a way to be justified. Even if someone managed to have perfect obedience to God's law, then they still wouldn't earn their justification as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of the law. In Romans 3:21-22, it doesn't say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ for all who believe.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has absolutely nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is part of His gift of salvation.

The one and only way for someone to attain a character trait is through faith, but what it means for someone to attain a character trait is for them to become a doer of that trait. For example, the only way for someone to become courageous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough courageous works in order to earn it as the result, but it would be contradictory for someone to become courageous apart from becoming a doer of courageous works, and the same is true for righteousness and every other character trait. This is why the same faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works does not abolish our need to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31).

The way to believe in God is by directing our lives towards being in His likeness through being a doer of HIs character traits in obedience to His instructions and it is by that faith alone that we attain them. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him. The way to believe that God is a doer of justice is by directing our lives towards being in His likeness by being a doer of justice in obedience to His instructions, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth.

In Galatians 3:21, it again denies that obeying God's law is a way to become righteous. Someone who disregarded everything that their tutor taught them after they left would be missing the whole point of a tutor. Christ did not begin his ministry with the message to stop repenting because the law has ended now that he has come, but with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and he was not sent to cause us to be free to do what God's law reveals to be wickedness, but rather he was sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).

 

[jeremiah1five]

Everyone not trusting in the suffering of Christ for their sins is under the law of obligation to fulfill it themselves.

What trusting? God does the choosing and when one is born-again, they remain saved forever. Man is passive in his redemption, and when one is born-again faith is given. Faith is a gift. Dead men have no faith by which to be saved. Like Lazarus in the grave who is unable to effect his salvation/resurrection by exercising faith he remained in the grave until Jesus was good and ready to go to him (after four days) and he remained dead even after they removed the stone. It was when Jesus called to him to "Lazarus, Come Forth!" that life entered him, and he hobbled out of the tomb.

You see, men do not have faith. They are saved without it. Men are saved by the faith of Jesus Christ. It was His faith God honored by which anyone is saved.

I hope you understand that salvation is by grace alone through faith.

It is by God's grace alone and by the faith of Jesus Christ, NOT the person who is being saved.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Faith in the suffering of Christ on the Cross for your sins!!!!

NO ONE who is alive physically and dead spiritually has any faith. God saves a person without that person having faith. Faith is a gift that is given AFTER the person is born-again NOT because of it because as Lazarus, dead men have no faith. They are dead in trespasses and sin (Eph. 2:1.)