Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[Capbook]

the Word was 'God' ---- grammatically the nominative case describes the subject, i.e. the word. In order for 'God' to be a direct address/to directly address the word AS being THE God - God would be in the vocative case.

My statement is in direct correlation to the Word of God grammatically - and the word was God - qualitative NOT identical.

But thanks for your opinion.

This phrase "the Word was God" in John 1:1c is an example of a predicate nominative coming first in the sentence, before the subject. (Sentences like this one that use a linking verb require the noun in the predicate part of the sentence to be in the nominative case. Thus the phrase "predicate nominative.") The subject of this clause is "the Word" and the predicate is God".

In Greek, the word "God" comes before the word "Word." According to normal Greek usage (Colwell's Rule), the word "God" should not have a definite article. Oftentimes, emphasis is shown in Greek by placing a word out of its normal, expected word order. Special emphasis is shown when the predicate comes first in the sentence. In other words, contrary to the thought that since there is no definite article used here it could belittle the fact of the Word being "God," the fact that the word "God" is used first in the sentence actually shows some emphasis that this Logos (Word) was in fact God in its nature.

John 1:1 InG1722 the beginningG746 wasG1510 theG3588 word,G3056 andG2532 theG3588 wordG3056 wasG1510.7.3 withG4314 G3588 God,G2316 andG2532 [4GodG2316 3wasG1510 1theG3588 2word].G3056

 

[amazing grace]

Contrary to Scripture

Great = Now believe what is written = "the Word was God"

Correct = as your estimation is contrary to Scripture.

Thus why you could not answer the question, and/or did not understand what was presented to you!!!

I read, understood your questions (plural) perfectly clear. They all were answered with 2 Timothy 3:16,17.
Apparently you didn't understand the answer.

 

[amazing grace]

This phrase "the Word was God" in John 1:1c is an example of a predicate nominative coming first in the sentence, before the subject. (Sentences like this one that use a linking verb require the noun in the predicate part of the sentence to be in the nominative case. Thus the phrase "predicate nominative.") The subject of this clause is "the Word" and the predicate is God".

Yes.

In Greek, the word "God" comes before the word "Word." According to normal Greek usage (Colwell's Rule), the word "God" should not have a definite article. Oftentimes, emphasis is shown in Greek by placing a word out of its normal, expected word order. Special emphasis is shown when the predicate comes first in the sentence. In other words, contrary to the thought that since there is no definite article used here it could belittle the fact of the Word being "God," the fact that the word "God" is used first in the sentence actually shows some emphasis that this Logos (Word) was in fact God in its nature.

John 1:1 InG1722 the beginningG746 wasG1510 theG3588 word,G3056 andG2532 theG3588 wordG3056 wasG1510.7.3 withG4314 G3588 God,G2316 andG2532 [4GodG2316 3wasG1510 1theG3588 2word].G3056

Yes, the word order in the Greek is reversed in the English.

There is NO belittling of the verse in recognizing that 'God' here is NOT THE WORD----IOW, the Word is not being IDENTIFIED AS GOD. The WORD is being described as 'GOD' - theos is being used in a descriptive manner, as an adjective, reflecting God's aspects, God's characteristics or nature. The Word reflects God's character. When the Word became flesh and dwelt among us as the only Son from the Father - Jesus truly lived and reflected a life full of grace and truth ----- God's character.

 

[DavidTree]

I read, understood your questions (plural) perfectly clear. They all were answered with 2 Timothy 3:16,17.
Apparently you didn't understand the answer.

Let us LOOK-N-SEE together on this:

You used 2 Tim 3:16-17 as a diversion away from "the Word was God"

In doing so you, you undermine your position since 2 Tim declares "the Word was God"

SEE = All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Today, you can receive from God thru "All Scripture"
a.) "profitable for doctrine"
b.) "for correction"
c.) "instruction in righteousness" = "the Word was God"

a+b+c = In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God = All Scripture

When you believe our Heavenly FATHER's Word that was God, you receive this Blessing-Benefit-Beautification
@amazing grace = the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

There is no "good work" in denying "All Scripture" = "the Word was God"

 

[amazing grace]

<snip>
Who has the Authentic Understanding???
a.) Moses who wrote Genesis under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
b.) The Apostle John who was under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
c.) your opinion
d.) a & b
e.) all of the above
f.) none of the above
<snip>

Your questions: ^^^^^^

<snip>
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16,17
<snip>

My answer: ^^^^^^^

Let us LOOK-N-SEE together on this:

You used 2 Tim 3:16-17 as a diversion away from "the Word was God"

In doing so you, you undermine your position since 2 Tim declares "the Word was God"

SEE = All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Today, you can receive from God thru "All Scripture"
a.) "profitable for doctrine"
b.) "for correction"
c.) "instruction in righteousness" = "the Word was God"

a+b+c = In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God = All Scripture

When you believe our Heavenly FATHER's Word that was God, you receive this Blessing-Benefit-Beautification
@amazing grace = the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

There is no "good work" in denying "All Scripture" = "the Word was God"

I agree that when I utilize all scripture in the manner in which they are to be understood then I will profit from that doctrine; I will profit from the the correction/reproof and I fill be fully instructed in righteousness making me thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[DavidTree]

Your questions: ^^^^^^

My answer: ^^^^^^^

I agree that when I utilize all scripture in the manner in which they are to be understood then I will profit from that doctrine; I will profit from the the correction/reproof and I fill be fully instructed in righteousness making me thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Who has the Authentic Understanding???
a.) Moses who wrote Genesis under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
b.) The Apostle John who was under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
c.) your opinion
d.) a & b
e.) all of the above
f.) none of the above

Based on 2 Timothy 4:16-17 = Which answer is correct?

Please choose from a,b,c,d,e,f and then elaborate

The correct answer from God for us who believe His Word = always grants Amazing Grace

SHALOM and great coffee at the 'Ruddy Muddy Coffee Cafe' = my home = you are welcome over anytime

 

[amazing grace]

Who has the Authentic Understanding???
a.) Moses who wrote Genesis under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
b.) The Apostle John who was under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
c.) your opinion
d.) a & b
e.) all of the above
f.) none of the above

Based on 2 Timothy 4:16-17 = Which answer is correct?

Please choose from a,b,c,d,e,f and then elaborate

The correct answer from God for us who believe His Word = always grants Amazing Grace

SHALOM and great coffee at the 'Ruddy Muddy Coffee Cafe' = my home = you are welcome over anytime

I repeat - I have answered your questions clearly and succinctly through 'it is written'; 1 Timothy 3:16,17.

Why in the world would you want to dictate HOW I answer? ---- answering in the manner YOU CHOSE would not be my answer at all ...... but YOUR CHOICES as to what my answer SHOULD BE.

And that's that!

 

[DavidTree]

I repeat - I have answered your questions clearly and succinctly through 'it is written'; 1 Timothy 3:16,17.

Why in the world would you want to dictate HOW I answer? ---- answering in the manner YOU CHOSE would not be my answer at all ...... but YOUR CHOICES as to what my answer SHOULD BE.

And that's that!

Those are not my choices!!!

If you are truly confident in 2 Timothy 4:16-17

Which answer is correct?

Don't be afraid = be Bold in CHRIST and choose answer that reflects God's POV and 2 Timothy and pleases God

 

[dwight92070]

Who has the Authentic Understanding???
a.) Moses who wrote Genesis under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
b.) The Apostle John who was under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
c.) your opinion
d.) a & b
e.) all of the above
f.) none of the above

Based on 2 Timothy 4:16-17 = Which answer is correct?

Please choose from a,b,c,d,e,f and then elaborate

The correct answer from God for us who believe His Word = always grants Amazing Grace

SHALOM and great coffee at the 'Ruddy Muddy Coffee Cafe' = my home = you are welcome over anytime

That should be 2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

[dwight92070]

Those are not my choices!!!

If you are truly confident in 2 Timothy 4:16-17

Which answer is correct?

Don't be afraid = be Bold in CHRIST and choose answer that reflects God's POV and 2 Timothy and pleases God

That should be 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

 

[atpollard]

That should be 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

I noticed that, too.
However, it works both ways (just carrying a different challenge)

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man [or woman] of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 4:16-17
At my first defense no one supported me, but all deserted me; may it not be counted against them. But the Lord stood with me and strengthened me, so that through me the proclamation might be fully accomplished, and that all the Gentiles might hear; and I was rescued out of the lion's mouth.

 

[amazing grace]

Who has the Authentic Understanding???
a.) Moses who wrote Genesis under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
b.) The Apostle John who was under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
c.) your opinion
d.) a & b
e.) all of the above
f.) none of the above
<snip>

Those are not my choices!!!

If you are truly confident in 2 Timothy 4:16-17

Which answer is correct?

Don't be afraid = be Bold in CHRIST and choose answer that reflects God's POV and 2 Timothy and pleases God

Well, apparently 2 Timothy 3:16,17 is not a satisfactory answer for you.

We were discussing John 1:1c --- you say 1:1c the word is identifiable and equal to God and so 'God' became flesh as the only Son from the Father.

I say that 1:1c the word was God in a discriptive manner not equal to or identifiable AS God. Therefore as the full expression of God, i.e. God's character, God's characteristics became flesh, embodied in the only Son from the Father. The Son being the full expression, the full character of his Father, made known the Father.

The author of the Gospel of John would have the authentic understanding. John's purpose statement:

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.​

​

So, John's gospel wasn't written so that we would believe that Jesus was God who became flesh, a human being. It was written that we would believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God. I believe that is John's POV.

And that's my final answer!

 

[mikesw]

Well, apparently 2 Timothy 3:16,17 is not a satisfactory answer for you.

We were discussing John 1:1c --- you say 1:1c the word is identifiable and equal to God and so 'God' became flesh as the only Son from the Father.

I say that 1:1c the word was God in a discriptive manner not equal to or identifiable AS God. Therefore as the full expression of God, i.e. God's character, God's characteristics became flesh, embodied in the only Son from the Father. The Son being the full expression, the full character of his Father, made known the Father.

The author of the Gospel of John would have the authentic understanding. John's purpose statement:

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.​

​

So, John's gospel wasn't written so that we would believe that Jesus was God who became flesh, a human being. It was written that we would believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God. I believe that is John's POV.

And that's my final answer!

oh wow. John wasted so many meaningless words in that first chapter (and within many other chapters). Hopefully in the future the scriptures will be able to correct your view point rather than having a final answer prematurely. I'm not sure what you are here for if your answer is the final one.