Calvinism makes man a new creation apart from Christ

[brightfame52]

why can't you address this and just assume your interpretation

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.

 

[TomL]

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.

Then why can you not address this

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

 

[brightfame52]

Then why can you not address this

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.

 

[TomL]

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.

Once again

Then why can you not address this

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

 

[brightfame52]

Once again

Then why can you not address this

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.

 

[john]

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

we accept it by faith by grace through faith ..i will never understand why Calvinism makes it so complicated . its as if you all think you have the plan of salvation cornered and your the ones who perfected it . no one forces any one to get saved the spirit draws convicts .. but we can sure reject it. been there done that called do not quench the spirit . when we get to heaven there is not going to be a book for Calvinist and for those who hold to free will . in fact there will be no denoms titles in heaven.

 

[TomL]

we accept it by faith by grace through faith ..i will never understand why Calvinism makes it so complicated . its as if you all think you have the plan of salvation cornered and your the ones who perfected it . no one forces any one to get saved the spirit draws convicts .. but we can sure reject it. been there done that called do not quench the spirit . when we get to heaven there is not going to be a book for Calvinist and for those who hold to free will . in fact there will be no denoms titles in heaven.

Um you got the wrong guy

I am not a Calvinist

 

[TomL]

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.

Then why can you not address this

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

 

[brightfame52]

Then why can you not address this

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.

 

[TomL]

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.

You cannot answer this

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

Salvation (that) is not of works

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

No one argues faith is produced by works

To quote Tibias Dad:

As has been already pointed out to you, the immediate context shows us a question being asked and the question being answered.

Hermeneutically, we have nothing to suggest that the answer to the question was intended to sidestep the question itself and say something different, as your interpretation suggests. So it begs the question of why you would look for something other than a direct answer without contextual evidence to suggest it?

The straightforward, logical explanation that the question, “what are the works that God requires?”, is answered by “the work of God” is “that you believe in the one he has sent”, and requires nothing outside of the context to arrive at this conclusion. The implication of the “(this is) the work of God (required)” is a natural understanding in the context of the question posed.

And he's not the only one. So you're wrong to say nobody argues that faith is produced by works.

 

[brightfame52]

You cannot answer this

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

Salvation (that) is not of works

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.
Peter, when he made his confession of faith into who Christ is, Jesus said this:
Matt 16 16-17

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

So again, Faith in Christ is not of ourselves, its the Gift of God

 

[TomL]

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.
Peter, when he made his confession of faith into who Christ is, Jesus said this:
Matt 16 16-17

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

So again, Faith in Christ is not of ourselves, its the Gift of God

What is the reason you are incapable of addressing rebuttal

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

Salvation (that) is not of works

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

 

[TomL]

To quote Tibias Dad:



And he's not the only one. So you're wrong to say nobody argues that faith is produced by works.

Um Sorry there is nothing there which states faith is produced by works

 

[brightfame52]

What is the reason you are incapable of addressing rebuttal

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

Salvation (that) is not of works

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.
Peter, when he made his confession of faith into who Christ is, Jesus said this:

Matt 16 16-17

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

So again, Faith in Christ is not of ourselves, its the Gift of God

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Um Sorry there is nothing there which states faith is produced by works

When you interpret the verse as, "This is the work required by God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" then you are saying faith is a work. And don't try to weasel out of it by saying it's not a work of the law, so it's not that kind of work. Much of the law is founded upon faith. You can let the land go fallow every 7 years because it requires faith that you'll reap enough in the prior year.

So if faith is a work, grace is not grace.

 

[brightfame52]

When you interpret the verse as, "This is the work required by God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" then you are saying faith is a work. And don't try to weasel out of it by saying it's not a work of the law, so it's not that kind of work. Much of the law is founded upon faith. You can let the land go fallow every 7 years because it requires faith that you'll reap enough in the prior year.

So if faith is a work, grace is not grace.

Faith is a work, just not the natural mans work, its the work of God in a man or women. But since posters like him hijack faith in salvation to be something natural, it defaults into attempting to be saved by a work of the flesh, or keeping a law.

See man naturally are under law to have Faith Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So if a person says they are saved by their own natural faith, and not by the Faith which is by the work of God the Spirit, then they are under law and obligated to keep the entire law for Salvation, which puts them under the curse,

Gal 3 10

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

So again, natural mans faith is a work of the Law, cant get around it.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Faith is a work, just not the natural mans work, its the work of God in a man or women. But since posters like him hijack faith in salvation to be something natural, it defaults into attempting to be saved by a work of the flesh, or keeping a law.

See man naturally are under law to have Faith Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So if a person says they are saved by their own natural faith, and not by the Faith which is by the work of God the Spirit, then they are under law and obligated to keep the entire law for Salvation, which puts them under the curse,

Gal 3 10

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

So again, natural mans faith is a work of the Law, cant get around it.

Agree. The verse is "This is the WORK OF GOD, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." That runs contrary to the law, and is therefore an act of grace.

I was simply trying to debunk the claim that it's okay if faith is a work of man because it's not a work of the law.

 

[brightfame52]

Agree. The verse is "This is the WORK OF GOD, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." That runs contrary to the law, and is therefore an act of grace.

I was simply trying to debunk the claim that it's okay if faith is a work of man because it's not a work of the law.

I understood you, no problem. But Faith in Christ is wrought in us by the Spirit of Truth, Its part of His Sanctifying work Christ achieved for His Church Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[TomL]

When you interpret the verse as, "This is the work required by God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" then you are saying faith is a work. And don't try to weasel out of it by saying it's not a work of the law, so it's not that kind of work. Much of the law is founded upon faith. You can let the land go fallow every 7 years because it requires faith that you'll reap enough in the prior year.

So if faith is a work, grace is not grace.

You have a couple of problems

First works (plural) do not produce faith

Second in John work is anything you do

while for Paul is it what you do to earn a reward

Paul is clear faith is not a work that earns merit and faith established that salvation is by grace