jeremiah1five
Well-known member
You mean the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah and fulfilled by Israel's Messiah? The one God promised with the House of Israel and the House of Judah?
Last I checked Gentiles belong to neither house.
Calvinism : = Hellish
- Thread starter Behold
- Start date
Last I checked Gentiles belong to neither house.
The one gentiles are grafted into
Ephesians 2:13–19 (NASB 2020) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who previously were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; 16 and that He might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the hostility. 17 AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
Ephesians 2:13–19 (NASB 2020) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who previously were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; 16 and that He might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the hostility. 17 AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Nowhere in Scripture are Gentiles called Olive tree let alone "wild" Olive tree.
You need to bring your beliefs into compliance with Scripture and stop believing other people's bible studies in commentaries and study these things for yourself under the anointing and let the Word tell you what to believe, not tell the Word of God what to say.
You hold to a form of Constantinian Gentile theology that seeks to supplant the Israel of God from His people. The Jews (Hebrews) have covenants that are eternal as God's promises are eternal.
Good luck with that.
By the way, Gentile proselytes and Gentile God-Fearers were citizens of Israel but being Gentile, they knew they were not in covenant with God because the covenants are with Abraham and his seed and Gentiles are not Abraham's seed. Never were, never will be. That's what Scripture says. Strange people have an eye condition they can't read.
Behold
Well-known member
It is significant that Acts shows sensitivity to howJews and Gentiles should show their unity in Messiah, while nevertheless honoring one another's cultural identity; it declares that Gentiles need not adopt Jewish practices in order to become part of the renewed community Yeshua has formed.
Im not certain what you mean by "community that Yeshua has formed"
But i know that all the Born again are "in Christ" = "one with God".
Paul (a Jew) teaches this, regarding the Bride of Christ (The Church).
Galatians 3:28
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New International Version
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
New Living Translation
There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.
English Standard Version
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Berean Standard Bible
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Berean Literal Bible
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
King James Bible
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
New King James Version
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
New American Standard Bible
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
NASB 1995
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
koberstein
Active member
Messianic Community
Maybe you should actually read the scripture you appeal to
Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Behold
Well-known member
What is that?
koberstein
Active member
Are you for real?
Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles
spurgeon
New member
Calvinism isn’t one of those issues I get worked up and angry about. I’ll discuss it with you, but if you are spoiling for a fight about it, you are likely to find me hard to provoke. I spent too many years as an Arminian myself to pretend that the truth on these issues is easy and obvious.
I think that if you were to ask theologians in seminaries or people on the street, “What is Calvinism all about?” I know for certain that the answers you would receive would vary widely. Just look at the title of this thread.
Charles H. Spurgeon once said. Whether you are a Calvinist, a non-Calvinist, or an anti-Calvinist, you need to give this question a fair hearing: what really is the marrow of Calvinism?
I think that if you were to ask theologians in seminaries or people on the street, “What is Calvinism all about?” I know for certain that the answers you would receive would vary widely. Just look at the title of this thread.
Charles H. Spurgeon once said. Whether you are a Calvinist, a non-Calvinist, or an anti-Calvinist, you need to give this question a fair hearing: what really is the marrow of Calvinism?
spurgeon
New member
We both understand what determinism is but the majority of people, Christians included do not. I know that you have heard every possible argument for and against Calvinism so there's no reason to go into detail.
Behold
Well-known member
What you posted is what Satan hopes everyone will do. @spurgeon
See, Calvinism is a "bewitching" theology. It has the literal power, underpinned by Satan, to take your MIND and turn you into a Calvinist.
So, The DEVIL absolutely wants people to read.. what will probably destroy their faith and turn them into one of Calvin's "disciples" (deceived dupe).
Paul said.. to be a "follower of ME, (Paul) as i follow Christ"
So, when one of the Devil's ministers says....>"pssst......hey.......psssst, ... you should read some CALVINISM.. some TULIP"... .. when one of them tells you that, then you are dealing with a serious heretic.,... Reader.
These people are sent to forums and to pulpits... , and they are not sent by The Father of Jesus The Lord.
Thats a FACT.
Believe it.
spurgeon
New member
The fact is your opinion is rather narrow-minded, That's what I believe.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Chill out.
spurgeon
New member
One thing I've thought of today as far as these online forums go Is that when people are real upset all the time and angry and frustrated that we really shouldn't condemn them. First of all it's not the Christian thing to do and second we don't know what's going on in their life. It's easy to make fun and mock and ridicule people, it's more difficult to love them.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The thing is to identify "wild." These are the disobedient that were broken off just as written by Jeremiah:
16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.
18 And the LORD hath given me knowledge of it, and I know it: then thou shewedst me their doings.
19 But I was like a lamb or an ox that is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, saying, Let us destroy gthe tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name may be no more remembered.
20 But, O LORD of hosts, that judgest righteously, that triest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto thee have I revealed my cause.
Jer. 11:16–20.
That is what Saul was talking about: Israel. Disobedient Israel who through disobedience were broken off.
So, let's not add to the prophecy what wasn't said.
Or written.
Your Romans quote fails at many levels. As a rabbi and a Pharisee of Pharisees not even Saul would contradict the Jeremiad prophecy and change it to mean something else, even though he's done that already in changing the prophecy of Isaih who said "a remnant will return" and changed "return" to "a remnant will be saved."
Besides this, on at least two occasions in his letters he contradicts himself.
But I know I'll find more. So, is such a change of a word "inspired" of God?
NO.
Sorry you just ignored this text
Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
and your text never even mentioned a wild olive tree
It's obvious you do not believe the New Testament and practice a backwards hermeneutic and give the Old Testament priority
koberstein
Active member
The wild branches are Gentile believers. The unbelieving Jews will be the branches that will be pruned off. There is no contradiction in the Word of God, only mis interpretations.
Shalom
will be the branches that will be pruned off. There is no contradiction in the Word of God, only mis interpretations.Shalom
koberstein
Active member
I agree. I had to put some immature people on ignore this week.
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