atpollard
Well-known member
PTL … Universalism: the problem of sin is solved FOR GOOD … every sin is forgiven, so everyone is going to heaven.
Just like the Bible teaches, right???
Calvinism : = Hellish
- Thread starter Behold
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Just like the Bible teaches, right???
koberstein
Active member
Sounds like a "free get out of hell" card.
Behold
Well-known member
Here is what the "Bible teaches"..
1.) "Jesus is the ONE TIME Eternal Sacrifice for sin"...
2.) "Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses (sin) against them, and has entrusted to us this message of reconciliation"
3.) "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the WORLD = might be saved through Him."
So, these verses are not concluding that everyone is saved.. they are concluding that the World of Sinners has been reconciled to God, one at a time, based on their faith in Christ.
If you follow the fallacies of calvinism to its logical ends, that's exactly where you will arrive at: Universalism. That's why calvinist forums like carm forbid the talk of universalism.
civic
Well-known member
Yes I always wondered why they were afraid to talk about that topic. It never made any sense to me and if mentioned you could get banned. Crazy, paranoid.
You might as well not talk about hell either lol.
Critical thinking is radically suppressed in Calvinism. A simple course of Critical Thinking 101 would decimate the calvinist ranks, along with English Language Comprehension 101.
Behold
Well-known member
Theologically Sane thinking, rational logic, and Theological common sense..... are definitely omitted from the "thinking" as found in the head of a Calvinist.
That is what deception does... it removes all that, so that all that is left is the ROOTED IN... Stronghold of deception that has become the person's truth.
civic
Well-known member
There are hundreds of examples but here is just one of many regarding total inability, irresistible grace and the dead in Calvinism. Jesus teaching on the prodigal son. He was dead and is now alive- he came to his sense on his own. The Father did not call him/draw him in the parable.
The parables are tulip killers. All of them.
koberstein
Active member
What drugs are you on?
civic
Well-known member
lets not make things personal. thanks
atpollard
Well-known member
NOT ONE WORD of your diatribe calling Calvinism "Hellish" - including your paraphrased and partial quotes of scripture - mention one single word about "one at a time, based on their faith in Christ" (thus my making an issue of it). You were merely proclaiming that all sin had been reconciled.
To paraphrase Connel and Donnel of Lutheran Satire fame (who are NOT Calvinists) ... "That's Universalism, Patrick!"
The one and only atonement - sufficient for any and all sin that was, is or will be - and the only EFFECTIVE atonement for any sin that exists - was made by Christ on the Cross for the sins of all that shall be forgiven [ie. "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved" - Acts 4:12]
That is NOT the same as "all sins have been forgiven" [ie. "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." - John 3:18] ... that indicates a sin that is NOT reconciled (through no fault of Christ or deficiency in His shed blood).
The Bible teaches that all sin HAS NOT BEEN RECONCILED. Enmity still exists between God and MOST of mankind (many vs few).
atpollard
Well-known member
You speak foolishness.
If you follow the (alleged) "fallacies" of Calvinism [which would be Sovereign choice of God monergism, Predestination, Total Inability of man/Irresistible draw of God, etc.] to its LOGICAL ENDS ... one arrives at radical surapasarianism (aka Positive-positive Double Predestination or HyperCalvinism) which advocates that God actively controls both the fate of the saved and damned in an irresistible manner that renders all human agency void (people become puppets in God's drama). The Westminster Confession of Faith (the gold standard for Reformed Theology [Calvinism]) goes to great lengths to make clear that this "logical conclusion" is false and unbiblical and contrary to what any Christian should believe.
NOTHING could be further from UNIVERSALISM than "Calvinism" pushed to its logical conclusion. Calvinism is the ANTITHESIS of Universalism.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
LOL @That's Universalism, Patrick!"
Lutheran Satire is one of my favorite YT channels.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Speaking of many vs. few, both divine election and free-willism result in the same outcome.
Divine election is positive and free-willism is negative. I don't mean positive and negative in the moral sense, but in the sense of YES and NO. For example, the US Constitution is mostly negative. It doesn't tell you what people CAN do, it tells you what the government CANNOT do.
Divine election is God choosing some for salvation (positive). Free-willism says that all can be saved, but God determines that some people cannot be saved (negative, He blinds them). Free-willism contends that only certain people are blinded (because they already rejected God? *), and the rest choose not to be saved. Either way, you still end up with most people unsaved, and a few saved.
* But hasn't everyone already rejected God?
Eleazar
Member
Not to worry they have treatment for this that has been quite successful. It involves a heart and a brain transplant.Ok thx for the laughI agree he was a bit deranged
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Type and shadow.
Where in the OT does God call non-Hebrew Gentiles an Olive tree let alone a 'wild' Olive tree?
That Scripture in the bible doesn't exist.
So, let's bring our doctrine back in line with Scripture. We're supposed to see the same Jesus and say the same thing as God.
To do otherwise is to oppose Him.
Where in the OT does God call non-Hebrew Gentiles an Olive tree let alone a 'wild' Olive tree?
That Scripture in the bible doesn't exist.
So, let's bring our doctrine back in line with Scripture. We're supposed to see the same Jesus and say the same thing as God.
To do otherwise is to oppose Him.
koberstein
Active member
Are we still beating this dead dog?
The believing Gentiles are branches grafted into the Olive Tree.
Behold
Well-known member
The reason that Paul wrote Hebrews 13:9, that says that some teaching by some PEOPLE is a "doctrine of Devils" is because He understood that this is what the Devil is going to do.
This is why Paul said in Galatians = "WHO = has bewitched you, that you should not obey the TRUTH"...
So, That is Paul pointing out, highlighting Heretics,.... (Titus 3:10).... who are teaching and preaching "doctrines of Devils" that are not of the Truth.
That's Calvinism., among others, like ISLAM or L. Ron Hubbard or "the cult of the Virgin".
Paul and John also teach that """""God was in Christ in the world not counting sin against anyone...""""
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 3:17
But, and however.... that redemption that is the BLOOD ATONEMENT, that is the NEW COVENANT and NEW TESTAMENT... is not universally APPLIED to everyone.. automatically.
Its only applied when you give God your FAITH in Christ, and then the "imputed righteousness" that is has been established for the "world". = John 3:16, is give to each BELIEVER.
koberstein
Active member
I was just checking on his well beinglets not make things personal. thanks
