Calvinism : = Hellish

[jeremiah1five]

Sorry you just ignored this text

Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

and your text never even mentioned a wild olive tree

It's obvious you do not believe the New Testament and practice a backwards hermeneutic and give the Old Testament priority

You want to bring up 'backwards' hermeneutic let's look at your backwards hermeneutic as you present it.

First, you cannot provide the Scripture in the Old Testament of the shadow to your type in Romans.

Second, you can't do this because in the three salvation covenants God made (Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New) there are no Gentiles in any of these three covenants.

Third, by presenting Romans 11:11-17 you are saying that Saul has the authority and the Almighty power to create a covenant in the first century of Gentiles included in a covenant despite the biblical fact that only God can develop any kind of salvation covenant as He did with Abraham and his Hebrew seed, with the children of ISRAEL in the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus), and the House of Israel in the Jeremiah prophecy describing the New Covenant of which Christ died as per the Mosaic Covenant for His people (Matt. 1:21) which are the Jews.

Fourth, your Romans passage does not even contain covenant words as the prior three covenants and the examples are below:

Abrahamic Covenant:
7 And I will establish my covenant (declaration of covenant)
between me and thee and thy seed after thee (declaration of who is in the covenant)
in their generations for an everlasting covenant, (declaration of duration of covenant)
to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. (declaration of terms of covenant.)
Gen. 17:6–7.

Mosaic Covenant:
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, (declaration of terms and declaration of covenant)
then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: (declaration of the children of Israel's responsibility in this covenant)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. (declaration of Israel's benefits/blessing in this covenant)
These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. (declaration of who this covenant is with)
7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. (declaration of Israel's agreement to this covenant)
Ex. 19:4–8.

You can't identify who these Gentiles are in Romans 11, whether they are proselytes, God-Fearers, or what I call hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Roman, Scythian, Barbarian, or any non-Hebrew enemy-to-Israel Gentiles.
There is no covenant language, no terms, no agreement by the receiving party, and no benefits of covenant. You merely say Saul is writing that a certain, unidentified group of Gentiles are in the New Covenant without any shadow Scripture to correspond to any Old Testament prophecy.
And, again, none of the three Hebrew covenants mention nor identify Gentiles in these three salvation covenants between God and the Hebrews. Therefore, as I said already, your interpretation falls short on many levels as you cannot keep your interpretation from breaking with Scripture and provide the above evidences of covenant between God and men as Scripture, which cannot be broken describes God making a covenant, God identifying party to covenant, God declaring duration of covenant, God describing benefits of covenant, and the other party to God's agreement to obey covenant.
And since the only command God gave to Saul was to take a message He's given to Israel - and Saul's choice to re-direct his message from the House of Israel and arbitrarily take it to non-Hebrew Gentiles which is what you're saying - that there is no Scripture of God commanding Saul to create any covenant with anybody, the error of your ways all has to do with failing to follow "backward hermeneutics" and connect the shadow OT Scripture with the type New Covenant type or fulfillment your interpretation falls short on MANY LEVELS as I've proven above.
But all this does prove is your grave infection to a great degree with Constantinian, heretical, false belief based on erroneous interpretation.

You cannot connect the Romans statement to any Old Testament prophecy of Gentiles being included in any of the Hebrew covenants.

Jesus came to save "His people from THEIR sins," NOT to change the Law or to add to an existing covenant after its been closed by God through terms and through time. But your heresy is contagious. That disease of defunct spiritual insight and biblical interpretation is just that without biblical support: heretical.

I've given you sound Scriptural support that God made no covenant with Gentiles nor did He change any Hebrew covenant to now include Gentiles in covenant thereby destroying the Law of which Christ as Lamb of God is sacrificed in accordance with Scripture as the type to the animal sacrifice (shadow) of the Mosaic Law.
Type and shadow.

 

[TomL]

You want to bring up 'backwards' hermeneutic let's look at your backwards hermeneutic as you present it.

First, you cannot provide the Scripture in the Old Testament of the shadow to your type in Romans.

Second, you can't do this because in the three salvation covenants God made (Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New) there are no Gentiles in any of these three covenants.

Third, by presenting Romans 11:11-17 you are saying that Saul has the authority and the Almighty power to create a covenant in the first century of Gentiles included in a covenant despite the biblical fact that only God can develop any kind of salvation covenant as He did with Abraham and his Hebrew seed, with the children of ISRAEL in the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus), and the House of Israel in the Jeremiah prophecy describing the New Covenant of which Christ died as per the Mosaic Covenant for His people (Matt. 1:21) which are the Jews.

Fourth, your Romans passage does not even contain covenant words as the prior three covenants and the examples are below:

Abrahamic Covenant:
7 And I will establish my covenant (declaration of covenant)
between me and thee and thy seed after thee (declaration of who is in the covenant)
in their generations for an everlasting covenant, (declaration of duration of covenant)
to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. (declaration of terms of covenant.)
Gen. 17:6–7.

Mosaic Covenant:
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, (declaration of terms and declaration of covenant)
then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: (declaration of the children of Israel's responsibility in this covenant)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. (declaration of Israel's benefits/blessing in this covenant)
These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. (declaration of who this covenant is with)
7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. (declaration of Israel's agreement to this covenant)
Ex. 19:4–8.

You can't identify who these Gentiles are in Romans 11, whether they are proselytes, God-Fearers, or what I call hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Roman, Scythian, Barbarian, or any non-Hebrew enemy-to-Israel Gentiles.
There is no covenant language, no terms, no agreement by the receiving party, and no benefits of covenant. You merely say Saul is writing that a certain, unidentified group of Gentiles are in the New Covenant without any shadow Scripture to correspond to any Old Testament prophecy.
And, again, none of the three Hebrew covenants mention nor identify Gentiles in these three salvation covenants between God and the Hebrews. Therefore, as I said already, your interpretation falls short on many levels as you cannot keep your interpretation from breaking with Scripture and provide the above evidences of covenant between God and men as Scripture, which cannot be broken describes God making a covenant, God identifying party to covenant, God declaring duration of covenant, God describing benefits of covenant, and the other party to God's agreement to obey covenant.
And since the only command God gave to Saul was to take a message He's given to Israel - and Saul's choice to re-direct his message from the House of Israel and arbitrarily take it to non-Hebrew Gentiles which is what you're saying - that there is no Scripture of God commanding Saul to create any covenant with anybody, the error of your ways all has to do with failing to follow "backward hermeneutics" and connect the shadow OT Scripture with the type New Covenant type or fulfillment your interpretation falls short on MANY LEVELS as I've proven above.
But all this does prove is your grave infection to a great degree with Constantinian, heretical, false belief based on erroneous interpretation.

You cannot connect the Romans statement to any Old Testament prophecy of Gentiles being included in any of the Hebrew covenants.

Jesus came to save "His people from THEIR sins," NOT to change the Law or to add to an existing covenant after its been closed by God through terms and through time. But your heresy is contagious. That disease of defunct spiritual insight and biblical interpretation is just that without biblical support: heretical.

I've given you sound Scriptural support that God made no covenant with Gentiles nor did He change any Hebrew covenant to now include Gentiles in covenant thereby destroying the Law of which Christ as Lamb of God is sacrificed in accordance with Scripture as the type to the animal sacrifice (shadow) of the Mosaic Law.
Type and shadow.

You still ignore this

Ephesians 2:13–20 (KJV 1900) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



and this which you actually failed to address

Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

and your text never even mentioned a wild olive tree

It's obvious you do not believe the New Testament and practice a backwards hermeneutic and give the Old Testament priority

 

[jeremiah1five]

You still ignore this

Ephesians 2:13–20 (KJV 1900) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



and this which you actually failed to address

Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

and your text never even mentioned a wild olive tree

It's obvious you do not believe the New Testament and practice a backwards hermeneutic and give the Old Testament priority

I don't ignore "this."
I UNDERSTAND IT.

Nowhere in the OT are Gentiles called of God an Olive tree let alone a "wild" Olive tree.
Those wilds seem to me to be Jews broken off and regrafted as they alone are God's Olive tree.

 

[TomL]

I don't ignore "this."
I UNDERSTAND IT.

Nowhere in the OT are Gentiles called of God an Olive tree let alone a "wild" Olive tree.
Those wilds seem to me to be Jews broken off and regrafted as they alone are God's Olive tree.

Nope You still ignore this

Ephesians 2:13–20 (KJV 1900) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



and this which you actually failed to address

Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

and your text never even mentioned a wild olive tree

It's obvious you do not believe the New Testament and practice a backwards hermeneutic and give the Old Testament priority

 

[koberstein]

I don't ignore "this."
I UNDERSTAND IT.

Nowhere in the OT are Gentiles called of God an Olive tree let alone a "wild" Olive tree.
Those wilds seem to me to be Jews broken off and regrafted as they alone are God's Olive tree.

We are not talking about trees, but branches to the Olive tree. The wild branches are the Church/Gentiles which have been grafted in according to Messianic theology which I agree.

 

[TomL]

We are not talking about trees, but branches to the Olive tree. The wild branches are the Church/Gentiles which have been grafted in according to Messianic theology which I agree.

He is simply in denial

for gentiles are called that

Romans 11:13–17 (KJV 1900) — 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Seems like a silly debate. There are different ways to graft different trees. You can cut down a wild olive tree, cut down the natural tree, and graft the wild olive tree onto the trunk of the natural olive tree. You can break branches off the wild tree and natural tree and graft the wild branches onto the cut branches of the natural tree.

Who cares? The point is the same. The Gentiles are from the wild and the natural trunk/roots support that graft.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Nope You still ignore this

Ephesians 2:13–20 (KJV 1900) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



and this which you actually failed to address

Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

and your text never even mentioned a wild olive tree

It's obvious you do not believe the New Testament and practice a backwards hermeneutic and give the Old Testament priority

Those verses do not describe Gentiles being included in the three Hebrew covenants.
But you go ahead and believe whatever you want. I am tired of repeating myself.
Why don't you try answering the problems you have with Scripture in your quest to have Gentiles in the three Hebrew covenants.
I'm done here. You don't want to answer the problems you have with Scripture in which the three Hebrew covenants are with Abraham and his seed who is Israel.
Goodbye.

 

[jeremiah1five]

We are not talking about trees, but branches to the Olive tree. The wild branches are the Church/Gentiles which have been grafted in according to Messianic theology which I agree.

Then Scripture is broken with that interpretation. There are no Gentiles included in the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants. None.
Unless you can show through Scripture in Genesis 17 and Exodus and Jeremiah's chapter 31 prophecy of a New Covenant between God and the House of Israel that Gentiles are the seed of Abraham and Gentiles are included in the three Hebrew-specific covenants. Covenants with God are made directly by God. And since Saul knows there are no Gentiles in the three Hebrew covenants to begin with then the error falls on interpretation.

 

[TomL]

Those verses do not describe Gentiles being included in the three Hebrew covenants.
But you go ahead and believe whatever you want. I am tired of repeating myself.
Why don't you try answering the problems you have with Scripture in your quest to have Gentiles in the three Hebrew covenants.
I'm done here. You don't want to answer the problems you have with Scripture in which the three Hebrew covenants are with Abraham and his seed who is Israel.
Goodbye.

You were refuted

The gentiles were termed a wild olive tree contrary to your claim

as I noted

Nope You still ignore this

Ephesians 2:13–20 (KJV 1900) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



and this which you actually failed to address

Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

and your text never even mentioned a wild olive tree

It's obvious you do not believe the New Testament and practice a backwards hermeneutic and give the Old Testament priority

 

[TomL]

Seems like a silly debate. There are different ways to graft different trees. You can cut down a wild olive tree, cut down the natural tree, and graft the wild olive tree onto the trunk of the natural olive tree. You can break branches off the wild tree and natural tree and graft the wild branches onto the cut branches of the natural tree.

Who cares? The point is the same. The Gentiles are from the wild and the natural trunk/roots support that graft.

Well apparently some do care because the point is being argued.

 

[koberstein]

Those verses do not describe Gentiles being included in the three Hebrew covenants.
But you go ahead and believe whatever you want. I am tired of repeating myself.
Why don't you try answering the problems you have with Scripture in your quest to have Gentiles in the three Hebrew covenants.
I'm done here. You don't want to answer the problems you have with Scripture in which the three Hebrew covenants are with Abraham and his seed who is Israel.
Goodbye.

Just put him on ignore, that is what I did.
Tired of repeating myself and dealing with ignorance.

 

[TomL]

Just put him on ignore, that is what I did.
Tired of repeating myself and dealing with ignorance.

Paul was inspired you are not

 

[jeremiah1five]

You were refuted

The gentiles were termed a wild olive tree contrary to your claim

as I noted

Nope You still ignore this

Ephesians 2:13–20 (KJV 1900) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



and this which you actually failed to address

Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

and your text never even mentioned a wild olive tree

It's obvious you do not believe the New Testament and practice a backwards hermeneutic and give the Old Testament priority

Show me the shadow Scripture in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets God ever calling Gentiles an Olive tree or branch let alone a wild Olive tree of branch.
Don't bother. There is no such Scripture. You are adding to the Bible.
There's a cursed for those who do that:

6 Add thou not unto his words, Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Prov. 30:6.

What's indicated.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Just put him on ignore, that is what I did.
Tired of repeating myself and dealing with ignorance.

He's just a kid who thinks he knows the New Covenant writings, but he doesn't. I took his position a few comments elsewhere and argued with his backward hermeneutics and it couldn't stand but was crushed under its own heretical weight. He knows nothing about the Torah or the Psalms or the Prophets. But that's what Gentiles do. They place all their beliefs upon the New Covenant Scripture and ignore the Hebrew Scriptures. It's easy to recognize. I'll ask for Hebrew Scripture support (shadow) for their position and they can't do that and just repost their New Testament passage(s) over and over again.
Yeah, I get tired and grow weary with his lack of knowledge. I receive no sharpening from him. He just regurgitates his Gentile theology to the exclusion of the Hebrew Scripture. Jesus said the following and it definitely applies to him:

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Jn 5:45–47.

In other words, those that do not know the Hebrew Scripture from Genesis to Malachi do not know how to interpret the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation. His Constantinian Gentile theology is thick with re-interpretations of the NT writings, and it comes from false Gentile theology.
It's like, say, I am Russian-born and want to learn the history, culture, and politics of the Chinese. I cannot rightly do that by reading things in a book. I have to go to the Chinese and do a Jane Goodall.

 

[TomL]

Show me the shadow Scripture in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets God ever calling Gentiles an Olive tree or branch let alone a wild Olive tree of branch.
Don't bother. There is no such Scripture. You are adding to the Bible.
There's a cursed for those who do that:

6 Add thou not unto his words, Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Prov. 30:6.

What's indicated.

Still ignoring the New Testament I see

Ephesians 2:13–20 (KJV 1900) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



and this which you actually failed to address

Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

and your text never even mentioned a wild olive tree

It's obvious you do not believe the New Testament and practice a backwards hermeneutic and give the Old Testament priority

 

[TomL]

He's just a kid who thinks he knows the New Covenant writings, but he doesn't. I took his position a few comments elsewhere and argued with his backward hermeneutics and it couldn't stand but was crushed under its own heretical weight. He knows nothing about the Torah or the Psalms or the Prophets. But that's what Gentiles do. They place all their beliefs upon the New Covenant Scripture and ignore the Hebrew Scriptures. It's easy to recognize. I'll ask for Hebrew Scripture support (shadow) for their position and they can't do that and just repost their New Testament passage(s) over and over again.
Yeah, I get tired and grow weary with his lack of knowledge. I receive no sharpening from him. He just regurgitates his Gentile theology to the exclusion of the Hebrew Scripture. Jesus said the following and it definitely applies to him:

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Jn 5:45–47.

In other words, those that do not know the Hebrew Scripture from Genesis to Malachi do not know how to interpret the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation. His Constantinian Gentile theology is thick with re-interpretations of the NT writings, and it comes from false Gentile theology.
It's like, say, I am Russian-born and want to learn the history, culture, and politics of the Chinese. I cannot rightly do that by reading things in a book. I have to go to the Chinese and do a Jane Goodall.

Give it up you were refuted

The gentiles were termed a wild olive tree contrary to your claims

Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

The old covenant is gone and we are in the New covenant and you ignore it trying to reinterpret the New by the old ignoring

Galatians 3:26–29 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Ephesians 2:13–20 (KJV 1900) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

fighting against the design of God

BTW you seem to have a problem with racial prejudice

 

[jeremiah1five]

Still ignoring the New Testament I see

Ephesians 2:13–20 (KJV 1900) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



and this which you actually failed to address

Romans 11:11–17 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

and your text never even mentioned a wild olive tree

It's obvious you do not believe the New Testament and practice a backwards hermeneutic and give the Old Testament priority

Still ignoring Genesis 17:7.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:6–7.

These are Hebrews. They are circumcised. Isaac was Hebrew. Jacob was Hebrew. The children of Jacob/Israel were Hebrew. But Gentiles are not Hebrew.
Therefore, Gentiles are NOT in the Abrahamic Covenant.
To take your passages in Romans as proof that Gentiles are in the Abrahamic Covenant when they become born-again BREAKS Scripture.
But Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken."
Heretics break Scripture to hold to the leaning on their own understanding in the vanity of their minds.
The garbage you're trying to push is heresy and breaks Scripture.
I'm not that stupid.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Give it up you were refuted

The gentiles were termed a wild olive tree contrary to your claims

Where does it say in the Hebrew Scripture Gentiles are an Olive tree?

The old covenant is gone and we are in the New covenant and you ignore it trying to reinterpret the New by the old ignoring

That's what Gentiles say in order to disobey God and His Christ. I prefer to believe the words of Jesus instead:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:13–15.

What's up, Dawg.

BTW you seem to have a problem with racial prejudice

Why do you say that? Is it because I say Israel is special and above all the nations of the earth?

I guess that makes God a racist according to your woke words.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Dt. 7:6.

I'm surprised Gentiles let that one go.
If Gentiles were the possessors of the oracles of God, they would have changed the word "above" to "below."
But thank God the children of Israel didn't change a thing and left it as written: "ABOVE."

 

[civic]

Seems like a silly debate. There are different ways to graft different trees. You can cut down a wild olive tree, cut down the natural tree, and graft the wild olive tree onto the trunk of the natural olive tree. You can break branches off the wild tree and natural tree and graft the wild branches onto the cut branches of the natural tree.

Who cares? The point is the same. The Gentiles are from the wild and the natural trunk/roots support that graft.

True but Roman’s has the grafting of the wild branch to the tree. It’s not discussing any other method. Paul is being very specific to its method and meaning.