Behold
Well-known member
Be careful.
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Calvinism : = Hellish
- Thread starter Behold
- Start date
Be careful.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Type and Shadow.
Show me the Scripture of God calling Gentiles an Olive tree let alone a "wild" Olive tree.
If there is no Old Testament precedent then there is no New Testament reality and that teaching falls short of the glory of God.
It is unsound and a heresy to hold to it.
The Olive tree, Jeremiah says, is Israel. And the branches broken off are the disobedient.
But God is able to graft them into the Olive tree again.
koberstein
Active member
Another heretic reply. Why do you constantly throw Gentile believers under the bus?
They have equal access to Adonai as Messianic Jews. Believing Gentiles are grafted into the Olive Tree and our part of the Kingdom. I'm getting tired of repeating myself.
atpollard
Well-known member
Where in the OT does God call the Hebrews a "wild olive tree"?
Where in the OT does God call anyone or any thing a "wild olive tree"?
The whole point of Romans 11 (where the Bible talks about "Wild Olive trees") is that LIFE comes from "the ROOT" (Christ) and neither the "old branches (those born Hebrew) nor "the wild branches" have any innate life apart from the LIFE GIVING ROOT (GOD) to which they are grafted.
Technically, we are ... the Olive Tree is the TRUE ISRAEL (Jesus Christ) and not the apostate nation ... children of the FAITH of Abraham, not the blood of Abraham.
atpollard
Well-known member
So you believes the Heretical teaching that all sin is forgiven and there is no damnation for the sins of men.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Because God throws them under the bus.
Scripture cannot be broken.
Show me in the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets of the high priest leaving the encampment around the Tabernacle, going to Gentiles and offering sacrifices and praying for Gentiles and sprinkling this people with the blood of the sacrifice and telling the Gentiles their sin is atoned for one year pass. Oh, by the way God wants you all you Gentiles to be circumcised.
Scripture cannot be broken. This never happened because God had no covenant with Gentiles. They were the enemy of God and the enemy of the children of Israel. And God sent Joshua to explain His attitude towards this uncircumcised, unclean, idol-worshiping race of people.
Messiah was promised to Israel. Messiah was not promised anywhere in the Hebrew Scripture promised to Gentiles.
Never. The Gentiles are without a prayer and without sacrifice. Scripture cannot be broken. Adding Gentiles to the Hebrew Scripture is adding to the word of God and the sin for that is LYING."
6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.
So, let's stop lying.
koberstein
Active member
Wow you are 2 for 2 with heretic replies.
You need to read and understand the B'rit Hadashah and Paul's letters. Every sane person knows the Tanakh is for the
Jewsand from the Jews.
Your anti Gentile rhetoric is getting old.
Adonai's master plan is for Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles/Church to be one people to honor and worship Him.
I believe you cornered the market on lying
Shalom
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
No one - including you - can show me in Scripture any passage in the three covenants where Gentiles are included in any covenant.Wow you are 2 for 2 with heretic replies.
You need to read and understand the B'rit Hadashah and Paul's letters. Every sane person knows the Tanakh is for the
and from the Jews.
Your anti Gentile rhetoric is getting old.
Adonai's master plan is for Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles/Church to be one people to honor and worship Him.
I believe you cornered the market on lying
Shalom
Show me without breaking Scripture Gentiles are included in the Abrahamic Covenant found in Genesis 12, 15, or 17 (Gentiles meaning uncircumcised, non-Hebrew, Gentiles), and
Show me in the Torah when God makes covenant with the children of Israel (Abraham's seed) Gentiles are included, and
Show me in Jeremiah 31:31-34 Gentiles are mentioned or included in the New Covenant, then I will be corrected.
Do this without breaking Scripture and/or twisting Scripture.
That's all you have to do. I have been asking this question without an answer from anyone here for over three months at least. Care to try your knowledge and respond?
koberstein
Active member
Try John 3:16 in the New Covenant.
Furthermore, the Apostles included Gentiles in the partaking of the New Covenant that Jesus initiated during the Last Supper.
civic
Well-known member
Paul a Jew was the Apostles sent/chosen by God to the gentiles and we know he wrote over 40% of the N.T. books.
atpollard
Well-known member
Non-Israelite Followers of YHWH in the Old Testament
Melchizedek (Genesis 14)Jethro (Exodus 18)
Othniel (Judges 3:9)
Shamgar (Judges 3:31)
Jael (Judges 4-5)
Ruth the Moabite
Obed-Edom (2 Samuel 6)
Uriah and Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11-12)
Queen of Sheba (1 Kings 10)
Widow of Zarapeth (1 Kings 17)
Naaman (2 Kings 5)
Samaritans (2 Kings 17)
Job
Psalms: (Many psalms proclaim that the nations will praise YHWH, for example, see Ps 45:17)
Sailors (Jonah 1:16)
People of Nineveh (Jonah 3)
civic
Well-known member
Amen !!!
civic
Well-known member
The anti-Jew/ anti- gentile stuff gets old fast. I usually stay away from the prejudice on either side. Jesus who was a Jew and God died for both Jews and Gentiles alike. All the world. That should end the debate. God grafted the Gentiles in because they as a whole rejected their one and only Savior/Messiah- Jesus Christ.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The New Covenant is the Mosaic Covenant FULFILLED.
There are NO GENTILES (non-Hebrews) in any of the three salvation covenants.
NONE. But you keep breaking Scripture, and we'll see how that all ends up.
Lots of luck with that.
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal. 4:4–5.
Salvation (and all its parts) is OF THE JEWS.
NOT the Gentiles.
Keep breaking Scripture.
All [you] Gentiles are great at it.
The Apostles included Gentiles in the partaking of the New Covenant that Jesus initiated during the Last Supper. That was headed by your favorite Apostle of all, Paul.
koberstein
Active member
God's covenant with MANKIND through Noah (Genesis 9) is, in Jewish tradition, the basis for the "Noahide Laws" under which Gentiles
receive salvation. Although the New Testament asserts that salvation for Jews and Gentiles alike is only through Yeshua, the outcome
of the Jerusalem Conference (Acts 15), which set forth the minimal conditions for acceptance of Gentiles into the body of Messiah,
parallels the Noahide Laws.
Because Gentiles are included in the New Covenant, they are subject to the New Covenant Torah, the Torah of the Messiah.
Since Torah itself is a medium through which God expresses his grace toward his people, it is not surprising that if through
Yeshua God has poured out his grace equally on Gentiles and Jews (this is the main point of Romans 1-11), he has also made
requirements of Gentiles as well as of Jews (some of them are detailed in Romans 12-15.
What God initially requires of Gentiles who accept Yeshua as their Messiah is spoken of in traditional Judaism as the Noachide laws,
which the Encyclopedia Judaica says are:
the seven laws considered by rabbinic tradition as the minimal moral duties enjoined by the Bible of all men (Talmud, Sanhedrin 56-60;
Maimonides: Mishneh Torah, Yad Chazakah, Melakhim, 8:10, 10:12). Jews are obligated to observe the whole Torah, while every non-Jew
is a "son of the covenant of Noah" (see Genesis 9), and he who accepts its obligations is a ger-toshav ("resident stranger" or even
"semi-convert"; see Talmud, Avodah Zarah 64b; Maimonides, op. cit., 8:10). Maimonides equates the "righteous man (hasid) of the
[Gentile] nations" who has a share in the world to come even without becoming a Jew with the Gentile who keeps these laws.
Such a man is entitled to full material support from the Jewish community ... and to the highest earthly honors.
God's covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12, 13, 15, 17) created the Jewish people. Except for the requirement of circumcision it is
an unconditional covenant promising that the Jews are to be a blessing to all MANKIND. This has proved true especially through
Yeshua the Messiah, the "seed of Abraham" who came forth within the Jewish people and whose just rulership over all nations
will extend from Jerusalem the Jewish capital. The covenant now applies to both Jews and Gentiles who follow Yeshua, as explained
in Romans 4 and Galatian's 3. The Jewish people will one day bless the world in unprecedented ways (Zechariah 8:23); Revelation 7, 14).
Romans 4: 16-18
The reason the promise is based on trusting is so that it may come as God's free gift, a promise that can be relied on by all the seed,
not only those who live within the framework of the Torah, but also those with the kind of trust Avraham had --- Avraham avinu for
all of us. This accords with the Tanakh, where it says, "I have appointed you to be a father to many nations." Avraham is our father
in God's sight because he trusted God as the one who gives life to the dead and call nonexistent things into existence. For he was past
hope, yet in hope he trusted that he would indeed become a father to many nations, in keeping with what he had been told,
"So many will your seed be."
Galatians 3: 6-9
It was the same with Avraham: "He trusted in God and was faithful to him, and that was credited to his account as righteousness."
Behold
Well-known member
Christ on the Cross paid for the sin of the world.
John 3:17
2 Corinthians 5:19
This is The Cross of Christ (The Eternal Payment)
And everyone who will give their Faith in Christ to God, will receive Salvation, that is completed 2000 yrs ago, by Jesus on the Cross, and has been proven to have been completed BY : the Resurrection of Jesus, from the Dead.
The false doctrine of Universalism, teaches that everyone is already saved.
They are not...
But the OFFER of Salvation, is waiting for everyone to come and receive it, by Faith in Christ, for the last 2000 Yrs.
koberstein
Active member
God's covenant with MANKIND through Noah (Genesis 9) is, in Jewish tradition, the basis for the "Noahide Laws" under which Gentiles
receive salvation. Although the New Testament asserts that salvation for Jews and Gentiles alike is only through Yeshua, the outcome
of the Jerusalem Conference (Acts 15), which set forth the minimal conditions for acceptance of Gentiles into the body of Messiah,
parallels the Noahide Laws.
Because Gentiles are included in the New Covenant, they are subject to the New Covenant Torah, the Torah of the Messiah.
Since Torah itself is a medium through which God expresses his grace toward his people, it is not surprising that if through
Yeshua God has poured out his grace equally on Gentiles and Jews (this is the main point of Romans 1-11), he has also made
requirements of Gentiles as well as of Jews (some of them are detailed in Romans 12-15.
What God initially requires of Gentiles who accept Yeshua as their Messiah is spoken of in traditional Judaism as the Noachide laws,
which the Encyclopedia Judaica says are:
the seven laws considered by rabbinic tradition as the minimal moral duties enjoined by the Bible of all men (Talmud, Sanhedrin 56-60;
Maimonides: Mishneh Torah, Yad Chazakah, Melakhim, 8:10, 10:12). Jews are obligated to observe the whole Torah, while every non-Jew
is a "son of the covenant of Noah" (see Genesis 9), and he who accepts its obligations is a ger-toshav ("resident stranger" or even
"semi-convert"; see Talmud, Avodah Zarah 64b; Maimonides, op. cit., 8:10). Maimonides equates the "righteous man (hasid) of the
[Gentile] nations" who has a share in the world to come even without becoming a Jew with the Gentile who keeps these laws.
Such a man is entitled to full material support from the Jewish community ... and to the highest earthly honors.
God's covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12, 13, 15, 17) created the Jewish people. Except for the requirement of circumcision it is
an unconditional covenant promising that the Jews are to be a blessing to all MANKIND. This has proved true especially through
Yeshua the Messiah, the "seed of Abraham" who came forth within the Jewish people and whose just rulership over all nations
will extend from Jerusalem the Jewish capital. The covenant now applies to both Jews and Gentiles who follow Yeshua, as explained
in Romans 4 and Galatian's 3. The Jewish people will one day bless the world in unprecedented ways (Zechariah 8:23); Revelation 7, 14).
Romans 4: 16-18
The reason the promise is based on trusting is so that it may come as God's free gift, a promise that can be relied on by all the seed,
not only those who live within the framework of the Torah, but also those with the kind of trust Avraham had --- Avraham avinu for
all of us. This accords with the Tanakh, where it says, "I have appointed you to be a father to many nations." Avraham is our father
in God's sight because he trusted God as the one who gives life to the dead and call nonexistent things into existence. For he was past
hope, yet in hope he trusted that he would indeed become a father to many nations, in keeping with what he had been told,
"So many will your seed be."
Galatians 3: 6-9
It was the same with Avraham: "He trusted in God and was faithful to him, and that was credited to his account as righteousness."
Be assured then, that it is those who live by trusting and being faithful who are really children of Avraham. Also the Tanakh, foreseeing
that God would consider Gentiles righteous when they live by trusting and being faithful, told the Good News to Avraham in advanced
by saying "In connection with you, all the Nations will be blessed."
Genesis 9:11
I will establish my covenant with you that never again with all living beings be destroyed by the waters of a flood, and there will never
again be a flood to destroy the earth."
Acts 10:34
Then Kefa (Peter) addressed them: I now understand that God does not play favorites, but that whoever fears him and does what is
right is acceptable to him, no matter what people he belongs to.
Romans 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the Good News, since it is God's powerful means of bringing salvation to everyone who keeps on trusting,
to the Jew especially, but equally to the Gentile. For in it is revealed how God makes people righteous in his sight; and from beginning
to end it is through trust ----as the Tanakh puts it, "But a person who is righteous will live his life by trust.'
Romans 4: 9-11
Now is this blessing for the circumcised only? Or is it also for the uncircumcised? For we say that Avraham's trust was credited to his account
as righteousness; but what state was he in when it was so credited? ---circumcision or uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in
uncircumcision! In fact he received circumcision as a sign, as a seal of righteousness he had been credited with on the ground of the
trust he had while he was still uncircumcised. This happened so that he could be the father of every uncircumcised person who trusts
and thus has righteousness credited to him, and at the same time be the father of every circumcised person who not only has had
a brit-milah, (circumcision) but also follows in the footsteps of the trust which Avraham avinu had when he was uncircumcised.
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Behold
Well-known member
Justification by Faith without works.
Your Faith is counted by God as (Christ's righteousness) become yours...... = "imputed righteousness" = "Justification by faith"... "The Gift of Righteousness"..
