Calvinism : = Hellish

civic said:
The anti-Jew/ anti- gentile stuff gets old fast. I usually stay away from the prejudice on either side. Jesus who was a Jew and God died for both Jews and Gentiles alike. All the world. That should end the debate. God grafted the Gentiles in because they as a whole rejected their one and only Savior/Messiah- Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
Amen to that!
 
synergy said:
The Apostles included Gentiles in the partaking of the New Covenant that Jesus initiated during the Last Supper. That was headed by your favorite Apostle of all, Paul.
Click to expand...
First the New Covenant is with the House of Israel.
Jesus said Scripture cannot be broken and to say Jesus at the Passover meal breaks Scripture by including Gentiles in a covenant that is strictly with the House of Israel is to cause Jesus to be a liar and guilty of sin.
What's wrong with you.
 
jeremiah1five said:
First the New Covenant is with the House of Israel.
Jesus said Scripture cannot be broken and to say Jesus at the Passover meal breaks Scripture by including Gentiles in a covenant that is strictly with the House of Israel is to cause Jesus to be a liar and guilty of sin.
What's wrong with you.
Click to expand...
Where does it say that the New Covenant is only for the house of Israel?
Your favorite Apostle Paul allowed Gentiles to partake of the New Covenant.
What's wrong with you?
 
koberstein said:
God's covenant with MANKIND through Noah (Genesis 9) is, in Jewish tradition, the basis for the "Noahide Laws" under which Gentiles
receive salvation. Although the New Testament asserts that salvation for Jews and Gentiles alike is only through Yeshua, the outcome
of the Jerusalem Conference (Acts 15), which set forth the minimal conditions for acceptance of Gentiles into the body of Messiah,
parallels the Noahide Laws.

Because Gentiles are included in the New Covenant, they are subject to the New Covenant Torah, the Torah of the Messiah.
Since Torah itself is a medium through which God expresses his grace toward his people, it is not surprising that if through
Yeshua God has poured out his grace equally on Gentiles and Jews (this is the main point of Romans 1-11), he has also made
requirements of Gentiles as well as of Jews (some of them are detailed in Romans 12-15.

What God initially requires of Gentiles who accept Yeshua as their Messiah is spoken of in traditional Judaism as the Noachide laws,
which the Encyclopedia Judaica says are:
the seven laws considered by rabbinic tradition as the minimal moral duties enjoined by the Bible of all men (Talmud, Sanhedrin 56-60;
Maimonides: Mishneh Torah, Yad Chazakah, Melakhim, 8:10, 10:12). Jews are obligated to observe the whole Torah, while every non-Jew
is a "son of the covenant of Noah" (see Genesis 9), and he who accepts its obligations is a ger-toshav ("resident stranger" or even
"semi-convert"; see Talmud, Avodah Zarah 64b; Maimonides, op. cit., 8:10). Maimonides equates the "righteous man (hasid) of the
[Gentile] nations" who has a share in the world to come even without becoming a Jew with the Gentile who keeps these laws.
Such a man is entitled to full material support from the Jewish community ... and to the highest earthly honors.

God's covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12, 13, 15, 17) created the Jewish people. Except for the requirement of circumcision it is
an unconditional covenant promising that the Jews are to be a blessing to all MANKIND. This has proved true especially through
Yeshua the Messiah, the "seed of Abraham" who came forth within the Jewish people and whose just rulership over all nations
will extend from Jerusalem the Jewish capital. The covenant now applies to both Jews and Gentiles who follow Yeshua, as explained
in Romans 4 and Galatian's 3. The Jewish people will one day bless the world in unprecedented ways (Zechariah 8:23); Revelation 7, 14).

Romans 4: 16-18
The reason the promise is based on trusting is so that it may come as God's free gift, a promise that can be relied on by all the seed,
not only those who live within the framework of the Torah, but also those with the kind of trust Avraham had --- Avraham avinu for
all of us. This accords with the Tanakh, where it says, "I have appointed you to be a father to many nations." Avraham is our father
in God's sight because he trusted God as the one who gives life to the dead and call nonexistent things into existence. For he was past
hope, yet in hope he trusted that he would indeed become a father to many nations, in keeping with what he had been told,
"So many will your seed be."

Galatians 3: 6-9
It was the same with Avraham: "He trusted in God and was faithful to him, and that was credited to his account as righteousness."
Click to expand...
There were no Gentiles at the time of Noah. Gentiles (non-Hebrews) were created by God when He made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and by virtue of this covenant and the sign of circumcision Gentiles came into being to refer to non-Hebrews NOT in the Abraham covenant.
Men were Adamites unto the covenant, and the Noah covenant has nothing to do with salvation.

The many nations that "come out of thee" are Ishmael and his descendants and Esau and his descendants.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. Gen. 17:12–13.

The nations and kings are the descendants of Abraham through Ishmael and Esau, and it can apply to the children of Israel of the southern kingdom and the northern kingdom. Gentiles do not "come out of thee" (Abraham.)

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:5–6.

Who did Jesus come to redeem and save? His people the Hebrews.

One prophecy:

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt 1:21.

The fulfillment:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:3–5.

God has no covenant with Gentiles in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets.
The Abrahamic Covenant is with Abram the Hebrew and his seed.
The Mosaic Covenant is with the children of Israel.
The New Covenant is with the House of Israel. And chief, none of these are Gentile (non-Hebrew.)
One would have to break Scripture to try to include Gentiles in any of the Hebrew covenants after they are closed and after the fact. By the way it is a sin to add to God's word:

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Prov. 30:6.

Stop lying.
 
jeremiah1five said:
First the New Covenant is with the House of Israel.
Jesus said Scripture cannot be broken and to say Jesus at the Passover meal breaks Scripture by including Gentiles in a covenant that is strictly with the House of Israel is to cause Jesus to be a liar and guilty of sin.
What's wrong with you.
Click to expand...
No you are the one that is wrong. The Gentiles and ✡️ Jews have equal partakers of the New Covenant. I proved that in my previous post so stop spreading heresy.
The only time Scripture is broken is by heretics.
 
jeremiah1five said:
There were no Gentiles at the time of Noah. Gentiles (non-Hebrews) were created by God when He made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and by virtue of this covenant and the sign of circumcision Gentiles came into being to refer to non-Hebrews NOT in the Abraham covenant.
Men were Adamites unto the covenant, and the Noah covenant has nothing to do with salvation.

The many nations that "come out of thee" are Ishmael and his descendants and Esau and his descendants.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. Gen. 17:12–13.

The nations and kings are the descendants of Abraham through Ishmael and Esau, and it can apply to the children of Israel of the southern kingdom and the northern kingdom. Gentiles do not "come out of thee" (Abraham.)

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:5–6.

Who did Jesus come to redeem and save? His people the Hebrews.

One prophecy:

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt 1:21.

The fulfillment:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:3–5.

God has no covenant with Gentiles in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets.
The Abrahamic Covenant is with Abram the Hebrew and his seed.
The Mosaic Covenant is with the children of Israel.
The New Covenant is with the House of Israel. And chief, none of these are Gentile (non-Hebrew.)
One would have to break Scripture to try to include Gentiles in any of the Hebrew covenants after they are closed and after the fact. By the way it is a sin to add to God's word:

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Prov. 30:6.

Stop lying.
Click to expand...
You are the only one that is LYING and twisting Scripture to prove your false narrative and heresy. I have a low tolerance for heresy by a Gentile. You may be on IGNORE in the future.
 
synergy said:
Where does it say that the New Covenant is only for the house of Israel?
Your favorite Apostle Paul allowed Gentiles to partake of the New Covenant.
What's wrong with you?
Click to expand...
Right here:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jer. 31:31–34.

Take note of what the New Covenant is in verse thirty-three. It is the fulfillment of the Mosaic Covenant.
If you understand what Moses said about the Mosaic Covenant with the children of Israel then you'll understand what Jesus says about the New Covenant, which is basically Christ in you (vs 33.)
 
koberstein said:
No you are the one that is wrong. The Gentiles and ✡️ Jews have equal partakers of the New Covenant. I proved that in my previous post so stop spreading heresy.
The only time Scripture is broken is by heretics.
Click to expand...
Prove it in Scripture.
Where in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets does God make a covenant with Gentiles?
The Abrahamic Covenant is with Abraham and his seed, and Gentiles (non-Hebrews) are NOT his seed nor do the "come out of thee" (Abe.)

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:5–6.

Gentiles (non-Hebrews) DO NOT come from the loins or seed of Abraham.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen. 17:7.

There are quite a few heretics here that add to the Word of God.

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Prov. 30:6.
 
jeremiah1five said:
Prove it in Scripture.
Where in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets does God make a covenant with Gentiles?
The Abrahamic Covenant is with Abraham and his seed, and Gentiles (non-Hebrews) are NOT his seed nor do the "come out of thee" (Abe.)

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:5–6.

Gentiles (non-Hebrews) DO NOT come from the loins or seed of Abraham.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen. 17:7.

There are quite a few heretics here that add to the Word of God.

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Prov. 30:6.
Click to expand...
I'm tired of repeating myself. I will put heretics like you on ignore. Isn't there a heretic forum you can move to?
 
koberstein said:
You are the only one that is LYING and twisting Scripture to prove your false narrative and heresy. I have a low tolerance for heresy by a Gentile. You may be on IGNORE in the future.
Click to expand...
The three Hebrew covenants are with Abraham and his seed (Abrahamic), with the children of Israel (Mosaic), and with the House of Israel (New.)

This IS the Word of God.

And Christ is not threatened.
For being Messianic you sure have a great deal of Constantinian Gentile theology in you which is not biblical theology.
It's trash in many places where Israel is not honored for having the covenants, but instead have it stolen by Gentiles.

Now, contradict this:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth
the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom. 9:4–5.

There is no Scripture of these things and honors ever given to Gentiles.
NONE.

Christ came to the lost sheep of the House of Israel to redeem Israel:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

The difference between me and all of you is that I am saying the same thing as God.
I wonder why?
I know.
 
jeremiah1five said:
Gentiles (non-Hebrews) were created by God when He made covenant with Abram the Hebrew
Click to expand...
“Hebrews” (by definition) are descended from the sons of Jacob, not Abraham. The entire line of Ishmael is NON-HEBREW as are any daughters of Isaac and any extended relations (including servants) living with Abram, Isaac and Ishmael, and the entire line of Esau.

God took almost perverse delight in grafting GENTILES into the OT Covenant Nation - probably just to rub salt in your open wound division theology.
 
jeremiah1five said:
I think I supported the Scripture with my position and the Scripture has supported me. Thank you, Lord.
Click to expand...
According to YOUR theology, God will only save the people that chose to reject Christ, and I am damned - in spite of any desire on my part to love and serve Him - because my ancestors were living in Northern Europe and the Black Sea region four millennia ago, rather than in Mesopotamia.

To think that people view Calvinism as “hellish” for daring to claim that God chooses to save some people in spite of their objections at the time. I find your ethno-elitism the sort of gross hubris that blinded the Pharisees to the truth and the very antithesis of Christ and Christianity.

I openly, willfully and joyfully reject the damnable gospel (which is no gospel) that you are selling.
 
atpollard said:
According to YOUR theology, God will only save the people that chose to reject Christ, and I am damned - in spite of any desire on my part to love and serve Him - because my ancestors were living in Northern Europe and the Black Sea region four millennia ago, rather than in Mesopotamia.

To think that people view Calvinism as “hellish” for daring to claim that God chooses to save some people in spite of their objections at the time. I find your ethno-elitism the sort of gross hubris that blinded the Pharisees to the truth and the very antithesis of Christ and Christianity.

I openly, willfully and joyfully reject the damnable gospel (which is no gospel) that you are selling.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. I put Jeremiah the Heretic on ignore. I can only take so much heresy.
 
atpollard said:
“Hebrews” (by definition) are descended from the sons of Jacob, not Abraham.
Click to expand...
Abraham ---> Isaac ---> Jacob/Israel ---> Twelve tribes ---> and their descendants all the way to the children of Israel today, many Russian, Ukrainian, Romanian, German, Austrian, etc., and every other Jew/non-Jew descendants.


atpollard said:
The entire line of Ishmael is NON-HEBREW as are any daughters of Isaac and any extended relations (including servants) living with Abram, Isaac and Ishmael, and the entire line of Esau.
Click to expand...
So, Abram a Hebrew and Hagar an Egyptian gave birth to a non-Hebrew in Ishmael? I suppose Ishmael was also non-Egyptian. A Hebrew man and a Hebrew woman giving birth and the child is miraculously a non-Hebrew child?
What a funny human zoo you have. The ordained command of God to have offspring "after their kind."
Step away from the commentaries and pick up the bible, read it, believe it.
Don't add, subtract, or change anything. If you do that, you're a liar (Prov. 30:6.)

atpollard said:
God took almost perverse delight in grafting GENTILES into the OT Covenant Nation - probably just to rub salt in your open wound division theology.
Click to expand...
You confuse covenant with Olive tree. And it was the disobedient that were broken off and grafted BACK IN.

The bottom line is the Abrahamic and Mosaic and New Covenants are with Abraham and his seed, the children of ISRAEL, and the HOUSE OF ISRAEL. Scripture cannot be broken and Saul, a Pharisee and rabbi, if you're going to say his letter is inspired, which I doubt because he would know if Gentiles are not mentioned when these covenants were being made BY GOD then Saul has no authority to add to the bible that which isn't there and add Gentiles after 3000 years and after the covenant is closed. Nor does Saul have the Almighty power to bring it about providentially. Besides, there are no Gentiles in these covenants when they were made and Saul knows better than to break Scripture, which is what Gentiles do constantly. But I get it. They feel left out. But we don't run on feelings.
There are NO GENTILES in any of the Hebrew Covenants. None. I've read the bible. There are none.


I keep asking and NO ONE has yet to show me in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets (and Genesis) Gentiles mentioned or included in the three salvation Hebrew Covenants.
No one.
Still waiting.....
 
atpollard said:
According to YOUR theology, God will only save the people that chose to reject Christ, and I am damned - in spite of any desire on my part to love and serve Him - because my ancestors were living in Northern Europe and the Black Sea region four millennia ago, rather than in Mesopotamia.

To think that people view Calvinism as “hellish” for daring to claim that God chooses to save some people in spite of their objections at the time. I find your ethno-elitism the sort of gross hubris that blinded the Pharisees to the truth and the very antithesis of Christ and Christianity.

I openly, willfully and joyfully reject the damnable gospel (which is no gospel) that you are selling.
Click to expand...
A covenant is a promise from God.
There is no faith required in the Abraham covenant.
There is no faith required in the Mosaic covenant.
There is no faith required in the New covenant.
It is a covenant of relation and salvation, which is why Saul said in Romans 11, "...and ALL Israel shall be saved.

It's also why it says in the Jeremiah prophecy of New covenant God doing the saving without faith.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jer. 31:33–34.

These are acts of God to do to the House of Israel without any requirement of faith.

The problem with Calvinism is they view Scripture from a Gentile mindset. They've stolen Israel's covenant and made it their own. They've stolen terms like "Bride" and Church" and "saint" and made it Gentile refusing to accept that these terms are used to identify Israel - not Gentiles.

Oh, and they've stolen the word "Chosen" which refers to the Chosen people of God who are Israel and make it apply to Gentiles.
This is incontrovertible. The 37 books of the Old Testament record Israel's history, culture, religion, covenants, sacrifices, kingdoms, etc., they are not a history of Gentiles.
What I haven't hear yet is the Gentiles saying THEY are the "apple of God's eye."
Another lie. But Gentiles can't see this unless the Lord opens their mind to His truths, the truths I am posting about for some time now. God will go on hardening hearts and blinding eyes.
 

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