Calling on the Name of The Lord

[Hosanna]

There are many points that can be garnered form Jesus' foot-washing. One of the most pertinent to this discussion is when Peter said, don't just wash my feet, but my whole body. And Jesus said that only those who are unclean need to be washed over the whole body, but those who are clean need only wash their feet. I believe this is an allusion to the continual washing that the Spirit provides when we walk in the Light (1 John 1:7-9).

No, I have never baptized anyone personally. I helped teach my late wife the Gospel, but another friend of our was the missionary responsible for bringing her from Taiwan to the US, and she wanted him to baptize her.
But I agree with you that you can see the change in someone coming out of the water when their baptism is true. I have seen some who are just being baptized because a friend or sibling is being baptized, and you can see the difference between the two.
And you are correct, they are a new creation when they come out of the water, because the old man of sin goes into the water and the new man emerges out of the water (Rom 6:1-4).

Awesome testimony.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Rev 7:14 says that our (spiritual) robes are purified when they are dipped (figuratively) in the Blood of the Lamb.
1 John 1:7 says that the Blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin.
Do I believe that we connect directly with the literal blood of Jesus when we are baptized? No.
But I do believe that it is by the power of the Blood (symbolizing the sacrifice of Jesus which saves us) that the Holy Spirit removes our sins during baptism.

Good. I don't see the correlation you're making literally with baptism.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Because Jesus said that the fruit of the vine (wine or grape juice) is (metaphorically) His blood, and the bread is (metaphorically) His body. But He does not say that eating it brings about salvation, but is for those who are IN HIM to remember His death. Any who are not IN HIM, and who do not understand what they are eating, and honor the Body of Christ, eat damnation if they partake (1 Cor 11:23-19).

Again. This even furthers my confusion on the literal correlation you're making with baptism. Can you explain?

 

[praise_yeshua]

There are many points that can be garnered form Jesus' foot-washing. One of the most pertinent to this discussion is when Peter said, don't just wash my feet, but my whole body. And Jesus said that only those who are unclean need to be washed over the whole body, but those who are clean need only wash their feet. I believe this is an allusion to the continual washing that the Spirit provides when we walk in the Light (1 John 1:7-9).

No, I have never baptized anyone personally. I helped teach my late wife the Gospel, but another friend of our was the missionary responsible for bringing her from Taiwan to the US, and she wanted him to baptize her.
But I agree with you that you can see the change in someone coming out of the water when their baptism is true. I have seen some who are just being baptized because a friend or sibling is being baptized, and you can see the difference between the two.
And you are correct, they are a new creation when they come out of the water, because the old man of sin goes into the water and the new man emerges out of the water (Rom 6:1-4).

Freewill Baptist? I know them well. My mother was one.

 

[Doug Brents]

Since water is needed for that salvation (according to you) then this contradicts 1 Peter 1:23 in that water (as with silver and gold) is indeed a perishable thing.

1 Pet 1:23 does not preclude water (an perishable agent) being involved. It says, "for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God." The Word of God, the imperishable Seed, is what causes us to be born again. That means that what the Word of God says is what brings about our being born again. The Word of God says that we are born again through being baptized in water.

 

[Fred]

The Word of God says that we are born again through being baptized in water.

Thus, contradicting that we are born again not by things that are perishable.


Is water (as with silver and gold) a perishable thing?

 

[Doug Brents]

Good. I don't see the correlation you're making literally with baptism.

By what power are our sins removed? The Blood of Christ Jesus.
Who removes our sins? The Holy Spirit.
When does He remove them? In water baptism.
That is the correlation that Scripture makes. It doesn't say all these things in one place, but the commandment is given in Matt 28:19 and Mark 16:16, and the rest of the pieces are filled in by other passages I have cited here.

 

[Doug Brents]

Again. This even furthers my confusion on the literal correlation you're making with baptism. Can you explain?

Yes, communion (the Lord Supper, the Passover feast boiled down to what is significant in the New Testament) is only for those who are already in Christ. Communion does not bring about salvation, but it can bring about condemnation if it is done improperly.

Baptism, in the passages I have cited here, is indicated as the point at with we enter into relationship with Christ, we are united with His death and resurrection, and our sins are cut from us by the power of His blood and the action of the Holy Spirit. This happens during water baptism, not when we give intellectual assent to the Gospel, but when we actually obey the Gospel (2 Thes 1:8). The phrase "obey the Gospel" makes it clear that it is not just hearing and giving intellectual assent to the information in the Gospel, but that the Gospel includes instruction for us to take action on in order to receive the benefit of the Gospel.

 

[Doug Brents]

Freewill Baptist? I know them well. My mother was one.

I don't know anything about baptists, freewill or not. I don't study denominational teachings much. I have studied some of the jw and mormon (non-Christ follower groups) arguments so I can rightly preach truth to them, but I have not studied baptist doctrines, let alone their splinter groups.

 

[praise_yeshua]

By what power are our sins removed? The Blood of Christ Jesus.

A allegorical reference. It is the death of Jesus Christ. Not a direct application of the blood of Jesus Christ.

Who removes our sins? The Holy Spirit.

We still sin. We still have a flesh that has "no good thing". Your appeal is incomplete.

The Atonement has been made. Forgiveness of sin is solely at the discretion of Jesus Christ who provided the Atonement. Again. An incomplete appeal.

When does He remove them? In water baptism.

No. An appeal to a fact that is not supported by the Scriptures. You're making the connection. Not the authors of the Scriptures.

That is the correlation that Scripture makes. It doesn't say all these things in one place, but the commandment is given in Matt 28:19 and Mark 16:16, and the rest of the pieces are filled in by other passages I have cited here.

Make the commitment. If can explain how Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 are relative apart from "connection", then will you change?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't know anything about baptists, freewill or not. I don't study denominational teachings much. I have studied some of the jw and mormon (non-Christ follower groups) arguments so I can rightly preach truth to them, but I have not studied baptist doctrines, let alone their splinter groups.

Okay. You're very similar to them.

 

[Doug Brents]

1 Pet 1:23 does not preclude water (an perishable agent) being involved. It says, "for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God." The Word of God, the imperishable Seed, is what causes us to be born again. That means that what the Word of God says is what brings about our being born again. The Word of God says that we are born again through being baptized in water.

Thus, contradicting that we are born again not by things that are perishable.

Fred, 1 Pet 1:23 does not say anything about perishable things not being part of salvation. It says that the seed (The Word of God) that brings about our salvation is imperishable. That does not mean that perishable water cannot be part of the process through which the Word of God saves us.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, communion (the Lord Supper, the Passover feast boiled down to what is significant in the New Testament) is only for those who are already in Christ. Communion does not bring about salvation, but it can bring about condemnation if it is done improperly.

Sure. Death. Not eternal damnation. Apples to Oranges.

Baptism, in the passages I have cited here, is indicated as the point at with we enter into relationship with Christ,

Not true. We have a relationship with Him before baptism.

There are several ways we allegorically mimic the actions of Jesus Christ. We don't do them ourselves. He did them.

 

[Doug Brents]

A allegorical reference. It is the death of Jesus Christ. Not a direct application of the blood of Jesus Christ.

True, but then as I said, we do not contact the literal blood of Christ in the water, but the Holy Spirit, by the power of the Blood shed in the death of Christ, removes our sins.

We still sin. We still have a flesh that has "no good thing". Your appeal is incomplete.

Indeed we do, and that is why 1 John 1:7 says that the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin as long as we are walking in the Light.

The Atonement has been made. Forgiveness of sin is solely at the discretion of Jesus Christ who provided the Atonement. Again. An incomplete appeal.

And to whom does Scripture say Jesus provides atonement? Jesus is the author of salvation to those who obey Him (Heb 5:9). Thus it is obedience of Him that brings about our salvation, and He said that those who believe the Gospel and are baptized will be saved (Mark 16:16).

No. An appeal to a fact that is not supported by the Scriptures. You're making the connect. Not the authors of the Scriptures.

Yes, Scripture does make that connection. 1 Pet 3:21 says that baptism (in water like the Flood) now saves us. Col 2:11-14 and Rom 6:1-4 says that it is during baptism (in water (see 1 Pet 3:21)) is when we are united with Christ in His death and resurrection, and the old man (of sin) dies and the new man arises to walk in new life.

Make the commitment. If can explain how Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 are relative apart from "connection", then will you change?

I am committed to belief of what Scripture says. If you can show that what I am saying is not what Scripture means, then of course I will change. But what you say must be consistent with ALL Scripture.

 

[Doug Brents]

Sure. Death. Not eternal damnation. Apples to Oranges.

What other death is Scripture focused on? Spiritual death (eternal damnation) not physical death (which is meaningless to God).

Not true. We have a relationship with Him before baptism.

Again, not what Scripture says. It is in baptism that we are united to Christ's death and resurrection (Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4). Not before.

There are several ways we allegorically mimic the actions of Jesus Christ. We don't do them ourselves. He did them.

Certainly. But read Matt 28:19. What does Jesus command the Apostles to do?
Go to all the world.
Make disciples (learners).
Baptize them. This is something the Apostles were to do to each learner.
Teach them to do everything Jesus commanded the Apostles, to include these four steps in His last instruction.
This is repeated in Mark 16:16 where Jesus states:
He who believes AND is baptized will be saved.
Thus it is not Jesus' baptism that saves us, but our own baptism.

 

[Richard]

John the Baptist could be said to calling on the name of the Lord when he delivered his message. He preached boldly, calling people to “repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near” (Matthew 3:2

After people confessed their sins, they demonstrated repentance by being baptized and then living transformed lives.

Paul said, “John’s baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus.” Acts 19:4

When people heard and agreed with his message, he—or his disciples—baptized them. The people publicly announced that they agreed with John's message of repentance by being baptized. (Luke 3:1–6).

John said, "I baptize you with water for repentance". Matthew 3:11

 

[Wrangler]

I'm curious to know exactly what it is to call upon the name of the Lord.

Disappointed, I am in the theoretical posts so far.

To call upon the name of the Lord is to cry out from the depths of your passionate soul, in agony, in total desperation. This is the meaning of Jer 29:13.

To those who have only done it cerebrally, intellectually, confusing YHWH, the Lord God almighty, with his beloved son, the Lord Jesus, who sits on YHWH's right hand, consider:
Mark 16:19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
Rev 21:22 And I did not see a temple in it, because the Lord God, the Almighty, and the Lamb are its temple.

Notice the Almighty is not the Lamb?

There are two lords. the Lord God and sitting on his right hand is the Lord Jesus. There is one God, the Father. 1 COR 8:6 (there is no lord Holy Spirit because this is an attribute of the Lord God and not a separate person. We know this because he has no name. YHWH is the name of Jesus' God. YWHW's son is named Jesus. There is no name to the Spirit of YHWH). For us, we have one master, Jesus, it is through this lord that the Lord God's sovereign will is exercised. The Lord Jesus has no sovereign will; his is subordinate to YHWH, the Lord God.

You cannot know what it is to call upon the name of the Lord unless and until you have reach rock bottom and there is no more relying on yourself. Such is the meaning of him being the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. To call on the name of the Lord is why Jesus taught us to pray

Matthew 6:9 So pray in this way: ‘Our Father, who is in heaven, may your name be treated as holy. Jesus is neither the father nor in heaven when he commanded us to pray this way.

The Lord God, the Father's name is YHWH, which is to be set apart as Holy. Call on him And how are we to call on him? In his son's name.
John 14:13 And whatever you ask in my name, that I will do, so that the Father is glorified in the Son.

 

[Doug Brents]

YHWH is the name of Jesus' God. YWHW's son is named Jesus. There is no name to the Spirit of YHWH). For us, we have one master, Jesus, it is through this lord that the Lord God's sovereign will is exercised. The Lord Jesus has no sovereign will; his is subordinate to YHWH, the Lord God.

You cannot know what it is to call upon the name of the Lord unless and until you have reach rock bottom and there is no more relying on yourself. Such is the meaning of him being the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. To call on the name of the Lord is why Jesus taught us to pray

Matthew 6:9 So pray in this way: ‘Our Father, who is in heaven, may your name be treated as holy. Jesus is neither the father nor in heaven when he commanded us to pray this way.

The Lord God, the Father's name is YHWH, which is to be set apart as Holy. Call on him And how are we to call on him? In his son's name.
John 14:13 And whatever you ask in my name, that I will do, so that the Father is glorified in the Son.

YHWH is not God's (the Father's) name, it is a descriptor that means LORD. God does not, at any time, in all of Scripture give His name. He says He is the, "I AM", but that simply means that, "I exist. I need no other descriptor, like "I am cold, or hot, or hungry or powerful, etc." God exists, which cannot be said about us, since we exist only because He decreed it so, and can decree that we never existed and it will be so. 1 Cor 8:6 says there is one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus. But God's "name" is Lord (YHWH), so they are one and the same.

God has no name that He has disclosed to us, other than the titles Lord, Lord of Lords, King of Kings, I AM, etc.
Jesus is also Lord, and King, and I AM. He is one with the Father (Col 2:9, Isa 9:6, John 1:1-3, & 14, John 10:30, John 14:9-11).
And the Spirit is the Spirit of God, who is separate from both the Son and the Father (Matt 28:19, 1 Cor 8:6, 2 Cor 13:14, Matt 3:16-17, John 14:16-17, 1 John 1:8, 1 Pet 1:1-2, 2 Cor 1:21-22).

 

[Fred]

Fred, 1 Pet 1:23 does not say anything about perishable things not being part of salvation. It says that the seed (The Word of God) that brings about our salvation is imperishable. That does not mean that perishable water cannot be part of the process through which the Word of God saves us.

And I Peter teaches we are not saved by perishable things.
You are affirming water is necessary for our salvation.
This is a contradiction.

 

[Doug Brents]

And I Peter teaches we are not saved by perishable things.
You are affirming water is necessary for our salvation.
This is a contradiction.

You are making an application that does not exist Fred. 1 Pet 1 does not say that there is no perishable thing that is (or can be) associated with salvation. It says that the Seed of our salvation is the Word of God (the Scriptures), and it is the Scriptures that are imperishable, and it is the Scriptures which say that water baptism is necessary to receive salvation.