Calling on the Name of The Lord

Wrangler said:
It's not like that at all. Labels. Substance. Not the same thing.
Click to expand...
Absolutely it is the same thing. One passage only mentions part of the whole truth (because that is all the original audience needed to hear at that time), but another passage exposes more of the truth by addressing the image from a different angle. John 3:16 is not the only passage that speaks of what brings us into relationship with Jesus. If it were, then I could agree with you that intellectual assent were all that was necessary to effect our salvation. But it is not. And so those other passage must be taken into account, and when they say repentance is also necessary, and confession of Jesus' name is also necessary, and baptism is also necessary and is the point at which our salvation happens, we must include that in our doctrine of salvation.
 
Doug Brents said:
One passage only mentions part of the whole truth (because that is all the original audience needed to hear at that time), but another passage exposes more of the truth by addressing the image from a different angle.
Click to expand...
Well, that's were we disagree, isn't it? We are not saved by water immersion.
 
Wrangler said:
Well, that's were we disagree, isn't it? We are not saved by water immersion.
Click to expand...
I know your worldview has you predisposed to believe that salvation occurs at the instant one gives intellectual assent (belief) to the Gospel message. And if John 3:6, Acts 16:31, John 1:12, John 8:24, John 6:40, John 11:25, John 20:31, and many others were the only passages that speak of salvation, listing only belief as the prerequisite, then I would agree with you.

But there are also John 3:36, Acts 2:38, Rom 10:9-10, Acts 3:19, Acts 22:16, Matt 7:21-23, and Gal 3:27, which are also equally Scripture, and as Scripture have equal weight in the discussion of what is required to receive salvation. Not a single verse that says something leads to salvation can be excluded or we end up with a distorted picture of what is required, and we may miss the crucial step.
For instance, can you believe that Jesus is the Christ, and believe that He died for your sins, and still live a sinful lifestyle (theft, prostitution, adultery, homosexuality, deception, fraud, etc.) and still be saved? NO! Because repentance is required for salvation. You cannot be saved still planning to live a sinful life.
Also, if you have not publicly declared Jesus as your Lord, then it doesn't matter what you think, He has not claimed you as His child (Rom 10:9-10, Matt 10:32-33, Luke 12:8-10). That means that when the minister says, "heads bowed and eyes closed" so you won't be embarrassed by raising your hand to claim Jesus as you Lord, Jesus puts His head down and closes His eyes too, and doesn't claim the people too embarrassed to claim Him.
Also, Gal 3:27 says that all those who are baptized into Christ have put on Christ. If you have not been baptized into Him, then you are not clothed with Him. You are still in sin and unsaved. John 3:36 makes equal belief and obedience. It says, if you believe you have life, but if you don't obey you will not see life and the wrath of God remains on you. Matt 28:10 commands the teacher to baptize the learner, and Acts 2:38 commands the learner to submit to baptism. This action is taken by man, and 1 Pet 3:21 and Acts 8:35-36 place that action in water. And Mark 16:16 says that this action results in salvation.
 
Fred said:
In post 160, the "Lord" in Acts 2:21 refers to Jesus, but you say no.

To whom does the "Lord" refer to in 2 Timothy 2:22?
Click to expand...
I saw this you posted on the other forum I thought was excellent. Nice job brother !!!


“Both the Father and the Son.

I also think it is important to keep in mind when looking at Romans 11:36 that Paul quotes Isaiah 40:13 in Romans 11:34, and he does so again specifically in reference to Christ in 1 Corinthians 2:16.

Romans 11:34
For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?
1 Corinthians 2:16
For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him?
But we have the mind of Christ.
Isaiah 40:13
Who has directed the mind of the Lord, ------> (Spirit of the Lord)
Or as His counselor has informed Him?

The Septuagint of Isaiah 40:13 reads "mind of the Lord" (νοῦν κυρίου) instead of "Spirit" in many of our English Bibles.

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): "But we have the nous of Christ." The statement concludes a section in which reference is consistently to pneuma, and therefore one might have expected pneuma. But Paul is influenced by the preceding quotation from Is. and therefore, equating kyrios and Christ, he writes nous. (2:820, echō, Hanse - the boldface is mine)”
 
Obadiah said:
I've always looked at it this way to “confess with the mouth” is simply part of “believing with the heart.” They both mean to “profess” faith in Christ. Anyone who does believe expresses this belief.
Click to expand...
Precious friend, makes perfect sense to me, in today's 'age of infirmities' since those who are
'dumb' can express "with the heart" [ Which Only God "Can See' ], thus He Saves them when
they "Call Upon The Name Of The Lord, With ALL their heart." Amen?

An additional thought in this would be for the critics proposing 'water baptism' from
the previous Dispensation Of Law, is Also "for all" in the New Dispensation Of Grace,
Which it isn't, Because The One [ And Only ] Baptism, "By The Spirit" Today, Never
'discriminates' [ as critics do ] against All 'the Infirmed' who will Never "be dunked'.

Thanks and Praise Be Unto God. Amen.
 
Grace ambassador said:
Precious friend, makes perfect sense to me, in today's 'age of infirmities' since those who are
'dumb' can express "with the heart" [ Which Only God "Can See' ], thus He Saves them when
they "Call Upon The Name Of The Lord, With ALL their heart." Amen?

An additional thought in this would be for the critics proposing 'water baptism' from
the previous Dispensation Of Law, is Also "for all" in the New Dispensation Of Grace,
Which it isn't, Because The One [ And Only ] Baptism, "By The Spirit" Today, Never
'discriminates' [ as critics do ] against All 'the Infirmed' who will Never "be dunked'.

Thanks and Praise Be Unto God. Amen.
Click to expand...
You have to be saved already to call upon the name of the Lord.
 
Doug Brents said:
Yes, bright, this is exactly what we have been trying to get you to see: calling on the name of the Lord leads to becoming saved. It is not something that only the saved can do, as you stated above.
Click to expand...
One is saved before they call upon the name of the Lord. I have discussed that with you.
 
brightfame52 said:
You have to be saved already to call upon the name of the Lord.
Click to expand...
nope you become saved after calling on the Lord as per Romans 10:8-15.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.( future will be saved, not past) 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” ( notice its future after calling- will be saved)

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

hope this helps !!!
 
civic said:
nope you become saved after calling on the Lord as per Romans 10:8-15.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.( future will be saved, not past) 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” ( notice its future after calling- will be saved)

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

hope this helps !!!
Click to expand...
You have to be saved/alive spiritually to call upon the name of the Lord, a spiritually dead lost person cant do it
 
civic said:
no Romans 10:8-15 says just the opposite that after a person calls upon the Lord, they become saved. You have the cart before the horse. The tail wagging the dog.

hope this helps !!!
Click to expand...
No its not. One has to be saved, alive to call upon the Name of the Lord
 
Doug Brents said:
Yes, you have told me that is what you believe, but that is not what Scripture says (as Civic pointed out in post 176 above). Your theology contradicts Scripture.
Click to expand...
Its the Truth. Man is dead to God naturally, alienated from God, mind and heart is blinded Eph 4:18


Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
 
brightfame52 said:
Its the Truth. Man is dead to God naturally, alienated from God, mind and heart is blinded Eph 4:18


Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Click to expand...
Dead spiritually does not mean incapable of acting. Spiritual death is not the same as physical death. In physical death, the body dies and is incapable of further action. But with spiritual death, the spirit is still capable of independent action. Refer to the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Even in physical and spiritual death, the rich man could still communicate, think, reason, and observe his environment and that of Lazarus.
 

Similar threads

Johann
Confessing / "Having" / Knowing The Monogenic Son of God [49]
2
Replies
38
Views
477
Doug Brents
D
T
"Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord” (Romans 10:9–13)
5 6 7
Replies
124
Views
1K
jeremiah1five
jeremiah1five
T
CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH THAT JESUS IS LORD” (ROMANS 10:9–13)
Replies
0
Views
58
TomL
T
brightfame52
A Believer is a Child of Promise
Replies
0
Views
47
brightfame52
brightfame52
Johann
Jesus: YHWH God Incarnate
Replies
14
Views
173
101G
101G
Back
Top Bottom