Doug Brents
Well-known member
We are not redeemed by perishable things, but by Jesus' imperishable blood, which we encounter in the water of baptism as the Holy Spirit removes our sins by its power (1 Pet 3:21, Col 2:11-14).
Calling on the Name of The Lord
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
Tranquil
Member
Well there is the old rebuttal to the thief on the cross that he was baptized in his sweat.
I agree with you at baptism is an outward sign of an inward conversion. Anyone can go to a baptismal ceremony and be immersed in the water and not be saved unless they believe in their heart and confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord.
That still requires water - which is perishable.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Not according to Scripture. It does not say in Acts 16 when his sins were forgiven. But it does say in Acts 2:38 that sins are forgiven in baptism, and it says in Col 2:11-14 that the Holy Spirit cuts our sins (the body of the flesh) from us during baptism, etc. The jailer was not saved prior to his baptism in verse 33. He was not saved in verse 31, because he did not even hear the Gospel message until verse 32, and Rom 10:14 says that we can't believe until we hear.He was saved prior.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Indeed, but what we are talking about is the timing. The active ingredient is the imperishable Word of God (1 Pet 1:23), and the Blood of Jesus by which power the Holy Spirit takes action during (timing) water baptism.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
So you do believe that dirty water removes sin? I mean seriously, I assume you believe in immersion?
Doug Brents
Well-known member
32 And they spoke the word of God to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.
Yes, he was promised in verse 31 that if he believed in Jesus he would be saved. But he didn't yet know who Jesus was, so he could not believe in Him. So then Paul preached the Gospel to him in verse 32. Then he was baptized in verse 33. His salvation, which was promised in verse 31, was accomplished in verse 33.
Richard
Active member
What did Jesus say about foot washing? Why did He have to wash the disciples feet? I'm not trying to be argumentative and I'm glad that you are so passionate about baptism. It shows how serious you are about your faith. I was wondering if you had ever baptized anyone yourself? I love to see people get baptized, It's so awesome when they come up out of that water. They're like a new creation born again.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Water does not remove sin. The Holy Spirit, by the power of Jesus' blood, does. And according to Col 2:11-12, He does that during water baptism.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
1 Peter 3:21 is an appeal to the death of Christ. The life of the flesh is in the blood.
I'm surprised that you believe in such things relative to some of your positions. So you actually believe the blood of Christ is somehow applied in regeneration?
You do realize that blood of animal sacrifices were poured out upon the ground as an offering?
The cross was the mercy seat of humanity. The blood ran down upon the earth into dust from which man was taken.
civic
Well-known member
No Jesus removed sin many times just by His command with no water involved. No blood involved.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
The Scriptures also declare....
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Jesus appealed to eating His flesh and drinking His blood...
Why do you not have a literal requirement of such as well?
Doug Brents
Well-known member
There are many points that can be garnered form Jesus' foot-washing. One of the most pertinent to this discussion is when Peter said, don't just wash my feet, but my whole body. And Jesus said that only those who are unclean need to be washed over the whole body, but those who are clean need only wash their feet. I believe this is an allusion to the continual washing that the Spirit provides when we walk in the Light (1 John 1:7-9).
No, I have never baptized anyone personally. I helped teach my late wife the Gospel, but another friend of our was the missionary responsible for bringing her from Taiwan to the US, and she wanted him to baptize her.
But I agree with you that you can see the change in someone coming out of the water when their baptism is true. I have seen some who are just being baptized because a friend or sibling is being baptized, and you can see the difference between the two.
And you are correct, they are a new creation when they come out of the water, because the old man of sin goes into the water and the new man emerges out of the water (Rom 6:1-4).
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Indeed, He had that authority during His life (Matt 9:6). But His will was set when He died, and He no longer removes sin except as His Will (Scripture) states that He does.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Because Jesus said that the fruit of the vine (wine or grape juice) is (metaphorically) His blood, and the bread is (metaphorically) His body. But He does not say that eating it brings about salvation, but is for those who are IN HIM to remember His death. Any who are not IN HIM, and who do not understand what they are eating, and honor the Body of Christ, eat damnation if they partake (1 Cor 11:23-19).
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Rev 7:14 says that our (spiritual) robes are purified when they are dipped (figuratively) in the Blood of the Lamb.
1 John 1:7 says that the Blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin.
Do I believe that we connect directly with the literal blood of Jesus when we are baptized? No.
But I do believe that it is by the power of the Blood (symbolizing the sacrifice of Jesus which saves us) that the Holy Spirit removes our sins during baptism.
Hosanna
Well-known member
Calling on the name of the Lord in baptism I think it's possible.
Baptismal prayer
Lord, thank you for the precious gift of baptism, that we can publicly declare our love and passion for you. Lord, we ask for your goodness and blessings to be poured out on this faithful servant. We pray that you would work deeply within their heart and soul to renew and refresh them each day. Amen
Baptismal prayer
Lord, thank you for the precious gift of baptism, that we can publicly declare our love and passion for you. Lord, we ask for your goodness and blessings to be poured out on this faithful servant. We pray that you would work deeply within their heart and soul to renew and refresh them each day. Amen
Since water is needed for that salvation (according to you) then this contradicts 1 Peter 1:23 in that water (as with silver and gold) is indeed a perishable thing.
Hosanna
Well-known member
This is interesting
What baptism won't do.
In this OP It says What must happen before baptism.
What I get from those three verses is if they haven't happened prior to baptism then baptism is to no avail.
What baptism won't do.
In this OP It says What must happen before baptism.
What I get from those three verses is if they haven't happened prior to baptism then baptism is to no avail.
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