Calling on the Name of The Lord

[Aeliana]

That's to say "one theologian's opinion" of what the bible says".

Then handle John 6:44, and explain why it's wrong.

It's not wrong it's describing what the gospel does when you hear it. It's the good news. When someone shares the gospel with you you're being attracted and drawn unto salvation. Now you can reject it or you can choose to believe that's on you.

No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to Me, and [then] I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day.
Jn 6:44.

except the Father which hath sent me, draw him:
which is not to be understood of moral persuasion, or a being persuaded and prevailed upon to come to Christ by the consideration of the mighty works which God had done to justify that he was the true Messiah, but of the internal and powerful influence of the grace of God; for this act of drawing is something distinct from, and superior to, both doctrine and miracles. The Capernaites had heard the doctrine of Christ, which was taught with authority, and had seen his miracles, which were full proofs of his being the Messiah, and yet believed not, but murmured at his person and parentage. This gave occasion to Christ to observe to them, that something more than these was necessary to their coming to him, or savingly believing in him; even the powerful and efficacious grace of the Father in drawing: and if it be considered what men in conversion are drawn off "from" and "to", from their beloved lusts and darling righteousness; to look unto, and rely upon Christ alone for salvation; from that which was before so very agreeable, to that which, previous to this work, was so very disagreeable; to what else can this be ascribed, but to unfrustrable and insuperable grace? but though this act of drawing is an act of power, yet not of force; God in drawing of unwilling, makes willing in the day of his power: he enlightens the understanding, bends the will, gives an heart of flesh, sweetly allures by the power of his grace, and engages the soul to come to Christ, and give up itself to him; he draws with the bands of love. Drawing, though it supposes power and influence, yet not always coaction and force: music draws the ear, love the heart, and pleasure the mind. "Trahit sua quemque voluptas", says the poet. The Jews have a saying F20, that the proselytes, in the days of the Messiah, shall be all of them, (Myrwrg) (Myrg) , "proselytes drawn": that is, such as shall freely and voluntarily become proselytes, as those who are drawn by the Father are.

From Bible study tools

 

[Bob Carabbio]

He's not just your Everyday run of the mill theologian we're talking Jack Haverford here.

Okay I'll check on John 6:44 today. Thanks for pointing it out. One thing sounds peculiar since it's in the Bible how could it be wrong. Or are you just talking about the interpretation?

It's ALWAYS about "interpretation", which is like noses. Everybody's got one.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Bob you believe that some who are drawn refuse to come and remain in unbelief right ?

I certainly did every time - until the last time. And If I had been sure that I'd get another chance, I might have turned it down that time too.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Calvinism is the Gospel, I dont want to be a apostate.

Inaccurate. "Calvinism" is nothing more than another "Theological Systematic" about "the Gospel".

 

[Alive]

It's ALWAYS about "interpretation", which is like noses. Everybody's got one.

There is a lot to be said about noses. For instance you can get a broken nose, You can get a nose job, You can stick your nose where it doesn't belong, You can even be nosy. You can smell a rat with your nose, You can blow your nose, You can have a stuffy nose. And The Beat Goes On. But one thing is for certain the nose, knows.

 

[brightfame52]

Inaccurate. "Calvinism" is nothing more than another "Theological Systematic" about "the Gospel".

No sorry, you have been deceived to believe that, however those doctrines comprise the Gospel of Gods Grace. Acts 20:24-27

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
The Grace of God in Salvation is according the counsel of God Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 

[Bob Carabbio]

No sorry, you have been deceived to believe that,

Chuckle!!!One of us has fer sure, fer sure!!!

 

[Obadiah]

No sorry, you have been deceived to believe that, however those doctrines comprise the Gospel of Gods Grace. Acts 20:24-27

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
The Grace of God in Salvation is according the counsel of God Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Wrong, Bob is a banjo player and banjo players are never deceived. You can call them banjoista, banjoer, banjo player, banjo picker, For males: banjerinos, For females: banerinas, banjophonist, banjologist. . .

But never call one a cellist, That is terribly deceitful.

 

[Richard]

Calvinism is the Gospel, I dont want to be a apostate.

I see ...so you're going to exercise your free will? Congratulations. I knew there was hope for you.

 

[brightfame52]

Chuckle!!!One of us has fer sure, fer sure!!!

I told you who is, may God be pleased to give you repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth 2 Tim 2 24 26

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

See that, those who are deceived into false doctrine are under the captivity of the devil, only God can change that, not his freewill.

 

[brightfame52]

I see ...so you're going to exercise your free will? Congratulations. I knew there was hope for you.

I said nothing about freewill, what are you talking about friend ?

 

[Richard]

I said nothing about freewill, what are you talking about friend ?

I was referring to when you said "I don't want to be apostate." That you could use your free will not to become apostate. I was making the point that if you could use your free will to renounce your faith in Christ then it has to go both ways. You could use your free will to accept Christ.

That's what I'm talking about. It's all about free will. We freely accept the gift of salvation offered to us by our Loving Savior Jesus.

You see as corrupted by the effects of sin we are, God's grace still allows us to use our God-given free will to choose the salvation offered by God in Jesus Christ or to reject that salvific offer.

One thing these forms make clear is that it's impossible for us to fully understand the relationship between God’s sovereignty and man’s free will and responsibility. Only God truly knows how they work together in His plan of salvation. With this doctrine, probably more so than with any other, it is crucially important to admit our inability to fully grasp the nature of God and our relationship with Him. Going too far to either side results in a distorted understanding of salvation and just leads to a lot of bickering back and forth.

The sad part is when we do that we make Christianity look bad and very unappealing, it's really not a good testimony especially when we're called to love one another. And to spread the gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

I was referring to when you said "I don't want to be apostate." That you could use your free will not to become apostate. I was making the point that if you could use your free will to renounce your faith in Christ then it has to go both ways. You could use your free will to accept Christ.

That's what I'm talking about. It's all about free will. We freely accept the gift of salvation offered to us by our Loving Savior Jesus.

You see as corrupted by the effects of sin we are, God's grace still allows us to use our God-given free will to choose the salvation offered by God in Jesus Christ or to reject that salvific offer.

One thing these forms make clear is that it's impossible for us to fully understand the relationship between God’s sovereignty and man’s free will and responsibility. Only God truly knows how they work together in His plan of salvation. With this doctrine, probably more so than with any other, it is crucially important to admit our inability to fully grasp the nature of God and our relationship with Him. Going too far to either side results in a distorted understanding of salvation and just leads to a lot of bickering back and forth.

The sad part is when we do that we make Christianity look bad and very unappealing, it's really not a good testimony especially when we're called to love one another. And to spread the gospel.

Yeah but thats not up to my freewill, but Gods Sovereign will

 

[Richard]

Yeah but thats not up to my freewill, but Gods Sovereign will

That's very interesting. Let me see if I have this right. If you decide to become apostate, It's not your choice but it's God's Sovereign will.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Wrong, Bob is a banjo player and banjo players are never deceived. You can call them banjoista, banjoer, banjo player, banjo picker, For males: banjerinos, For females: banerinas, banjophonist, banjologist. . .

But never call one a cellist, That is terribly deceitful.

Actually, among religious fundamentalists in the early 20th century, the Banjo and the Violin shared a common descriptive pejorative: "The devil's walking stick". Seems like Bluegrass wasn't popular among religious fundamentalists!!!

 

[Obadiah]

Actually, among religious fundamentalists in the early 20th century, the Banjo and the Violin shared a common descriptive pejorative: "The devil's walking stick". Seems like Bluegrass wasn't popular among religious fundamentalists!!!

Awesome, Thanks for sharing it with us Bob.

 

[brightfame52]

That's very interesting. Let me see if I have this right. If you decide to become apostate, It's not your choice but it's God's Sovereign will.

You dont get it

 

[Richard]

You dont get it

Apparently not, but at least I tried.

 

[Complete]

'Then called I upon the name of the LORD;
O LORD, I beseech thee, deliver my soul'
(Psa 116:4)

'What shall I render unto the LORD for all His benefits toward me?
I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.'
(Psa 116:12-13)

'I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving,
and will call upon the name of the LORD.'
(Psa 116:17)

 

[jeremiah1five]

If your focus is to get your understanding of biblical terminology from only the New Covenant writings you will end up in error.
The terminology first appears in Genesis:

26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. Gen. 4:25–26.

The term simply means worship. And one must first be in relationship with God before any worship can rightly be given and accepted by God.

No man can worship God unless God first gives the person leave to do so, and what I mean is that not all worship is acceptable to God. Unsaved people cannot worship God. Only those in relationship with Him.

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest,
And causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts:
We shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house,
Even of thy holy temple.
Ps 65:4.

First, God chooses who may approach Him to worship. And given this psalm was written by David who was already in relationship with God it is easy to understand his words in the next verse. It is God who causes/allows any to approach Him. No mere man can in any realm, human or Godly, approach the king without permission. And the permission is to be saved and in relationship with God. Since the Bible also says "no flesh shall glory in His Presence" any mere flesh (of man) not in relationship with God his worship like his prayer is sin for it is not offered in the anointing of the Spirit.
Reference to "courts" and "thy house" and "thy holy Temple" means worship and other religious services rendered to the God of the universe. It reads more correctly in the Hebrew language. In English translations it seems to say that anyone can call (out) to God arbitrarily, but as I submitted above this is not the correct understanding.