Calling on the Name of The Lord

[Wrangler]

YHWH is not God's (the Father's) name

It most certainly is.

Ex 3:15 God said … Yahweh, … is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

Is 45:5 I am Yahweh, and there is none else. Besides me, there is no God.

 

[Fred]

You are making an application that does not exist Fred. 1 Pet 1 does not say that there is no perishable thing that is (or can be) associated with salvation. It says that the Seed of our salvation is the Word of God (the Scriptures), and it is the Scriptures that are imperishable, and it is the Scriptures which say that water baptism is necessary to receive salvation.

You are ignoring the fact that it reads Christians are not born again by perishable things.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I am committed to belief of what Scripture says. If you can show that what I am saying is not what Scripture means, then of course I will change. But what you say must be consistent with ALL Scripture.

I haven't stated anything contrary to Scripture. In fact, you're agreeing with me relative to how to apply the Scriptures. There is no literal connection between water baptism and actually remission of sin.

I have given you valid explanations contrary to your opinion. You're basically to the point of insisting that Matt 28:19 and Mark 16:16 specifically establishes your opinion. I don't see how you can see it any other way. Matt 28:19 is your "proof" verse. It begins there with you. For all your other appeals, there are clear valid alternative explanations.

I'm asking you to rank the strength of your appeals starting with #1 being the strongest witness to how "you see it".

 

[praise_yeshua]

And I Peter teaches we are not saved by perishable things.
You are affirming water is necessary for our salvation.
This is a contradiction.

I believe he is trying to disconnect water from baptism in a literal sense. Which is problematic as well.

 

[Parker]

1 Pet 1:23 does not preclude water (an perishable agent) being involved. It says, "for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God." The Word of God, the imperishable Seed, is what causes us to be born again. That means that what the Word of God says is what brings about our being born again. The Word of God says that we are born again through being baptized in water.

Here's my take. Under the new covenant, to ‘call on the name of the Lord’ is directly connected to being baptized for the remission of sins. It follows one’s hearing and belief in the gospel.

Invitations to ‘call on the name of the Lord’ are often extended by preachers at the end of their sermon when they invite people that want to get saved to recite a prayer, often referred to as the “Sinner’s Prayer”.

I believe God hears all who call on His name in this way. The next step is a act of obedience by getting baptized.

 

[Rockson]

I think we miss the spirit of what Jesus meant when he said, "Repent and be baptized and you shall be saved" Was Jesus saying eternal life absolutely will not be imparted into ones spirits until they're water baptized? I most certainly do not believe that's the case. I believe he was saying your life should be a giving over to

the Lordship of Christ, (thus repenting) but also an outward confession to the world of what Jesus has done for you. Water baptism is a part of it. Water baptism is one type of declaring to the world who your Lord is and that you're not ashamed of him. You can even be doing that before you're water baptized.

With my story it was May 26, 1976 . I receive the Lord in my living room, night time praying with a host from a TV show. I had a rather sensational experience. Not saying you have to have one to be saved but I did. The room filled up with the glory of God, or I call it his LIFE and LIGHT and simultaneously it was imparted into my spirit. It was literally I mean literally like a hose of water blasting darkness from out of my heart.

I didn't know until days up ahead that Jesus said out of your belly (your spirit) shall flow rivers of living water. I was just WOW I mean WOW! What happened eternal life was imparted to me then. Water baptism though.....that didn't happen to me until a few months later. Not that I was resisting it......I just was not among evangelicals until a few months later who told me about it and the need to have it done, which I did.

Now if someone seeks to tell me I wasn't actually saved that May 26th night, UM nope sorry you're wrong. I know that I know, that I know that I was . My life absolutely changed that night and all my family members knew it and they knew it wasn't something mental but they knew it was something spiritual and they knew it was the life and power of God.

 

[Anja]

I think we miss the spirit of what Jesus meant when he said, "Repent and be baptized and you shall be saved" Was Jesus saying eternal life absolutely will not be imparted into ones spirits until they're water baptized? I most certainly do not believe that's the case. I believe he was saying your life should be a giving over to

the Lordship of Christ, (thus repenting) but also an outward confession to the world of what Jesus has done for you. Water baptism is a part of it. Water baptism is one type of declaring to the world who your Lord is and that you're not ashamed of him. You can even be doing that before you're water baptized.

With my story it was May 26, 1976 . I receive the Lord in my living room, night time praying with a host from a TV show. I had a rather sensational experience. Not saying you have to have one to be saved but I did. The room filled up with the glory of God, or I call it his LIFE and LIGHT and simultaneously it was imparted into my spirit. It was literally I mean literally like a hose of water blasting darkness from out of my heart.

I didn't know until days up ahead that Jesus said out of your belly (your spirit) shall flow rivers of living water. I was just WOW I mean WOW! What happened eternal life was imparted to me then. Water baptism though.....that didn't happen to me until a few months later. Not that I was resisting it......I just was not among evangelicals until a few months later who told me about it and the need to have it done, which I did.

Now if someone seeks to tell me I wasn't actually saved that May 26th night, UM nope sorry you're wrong. I know that I know, that I know that I was . My life absolutely changed that night and all my family members knew it and they knew it wasn't something mental but they knew it was something spiritual and they knew it was the life and power of God.

Exactly, you were a new creation. You were born again.

 

[Doug Brents]

It most certainly is.

Ex 3:15 God said … Yahweh, … is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

Is 45:5 I am Yahweh, and there is none else. Besides me, there is no God.

Again, the word means "The Lord". We are to call Him Lord, and remember Him as Lord for all generations, and have no other Lord than Him. But that is not His NAME, in the sense that my name on this forum is Doug.

 

[Doug Brents]

There is no literal connection between water baptism and actually remission of sin.

Yes, there is. 1 Pet 3:21 says that we are saved through water baptism. Saved from what? The penalty of sin which Christ took on in our place (1 Pet 3:18).

I have given you valid explanations contrary to your opinion. You're basically to the point of insisting that Matt 28:19 and Mark 16:16 specifically establishes your opinion. I don't see how you can see it any other way. Matt 28:19 is your "proof" verse. It begins there with you. For all your other appeals, there are clear valid alternative explanations.

I'm asking you to rank the strength of your appeals starting with #1 being the strongest witness to how "you see it".

There is no "proof verse", for all Scripture works together, in that there are no contradictions and no errors in it. In reading the sum total of NT Scripture, many passages point to water baptism being the point at which we are saved, and all of them work together to create a seamless image of the truth.
Yes, it starts with the instruction of Jesus that we are to baptize those coming as learners (disciples) of Christ (Matt 28:19), and that those learners must believe the Gospel and be baptized to be saved.
The other passages that I cite answer different questions and objections posed by people who don't believe that water baptism is the point at which we are saved. Yes, there are alternative explanations, but none of those other explanations fit all the passages that I have cited. They explain away, or make a point about one passage, but that explanation fails when the next passage is applied. The doctrine must fit all the passages of Scripture about the topic, not just the one we are looking at in the moment.

 

[Doug Brents]

Here's my take. Under the new covenant, to ‘call on the name of the Lord’ is directly connected to being baptized for the remission of sins. It follows one’s hearing and belief in the gospel.

Invitations to ‘call on the name of the Lord’ are often extended by preachers at the end of their sermon when they invite people that want to get saved to recite a prayer, often referred to as the “Sinner’s Prayer”.

I believe God hears all who call on His name in this way. The next step is a act of obedience by getting baptized.

I have no problem with ministers offering a "sinner's prayer" at the end of a sermon, as long as they are not telling people that in saying that prayer their sins are forgiven and they are saved. Because that is not found anywhere in Scripture. Baptism does not follow salvation, but is the point at which our sins are removed and we become saved (as Col 2:11-14 and Rom 6:1-4 say).

 

[Wrangler]

Again, the word means "The Lord".

No! You have been mislead by bad translations that replaced 7,000 times the divine name with "the Lord." There are many lords in Scripture, dozens in fact, but only one true God, YHWH, who sent Jesus.

YHWH is the personal name of the Creator, Jesus' God. Ex 3:15 is the only verse that says uses the term "name" in reference to YHWH besides Ps 83:19. I suggest you honor the name of Jesus' God. Moreover, Is 45:5 explicitly says YHWH is the only God. So, any claim Jesus is any part of God is a human invention, contradicting explicit Scripture.

Scripture could not be more clear; Jesus is not God but OF God - word, son, lamb, priest, servant, apostle, prophet, etc. It makes this point countless times.

Your claim that YHWH is a descriptor is misapplied. He does have many descriptive titles but the name of Jesus God is YHWH.

 

[Wrangler]

From today's devotional reading, Zechariah 4:4-14

• An angel is called "my lord" AND does not deny it. Using trinitarian doublespeak, this means this angel is God.
• Yet, in the final verse the angel refers to another lord, "the Lord of all the land."
• We know who this is, the angels Creator. Ps 83:19 you alone, whose name is Yahweh, are the Most High over all the earth.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, there is. 1 Pet 3:21 says that we are saved through water baptism. Saved from what? The penalty of sin which Christ took on in our place (1 Pet 3:18).

Doug, I don't think you are discerning God's word correctly.

1 Peter 3:21 This also prefigures what delivers us now, the water of immersion, which is not the removal of dirt from the body, but one’s pledge to keep a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Yeshua the Messiah.​

Water immersion is nothing but symbolism, like walking across the stage in receiving your diploma. Both a graduation ceremony and baptism ceremony are public displays of commemorating an important event THAT HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE. I doubt that too many people make a commitment to Christ as they are being immersed. The commitment already took place and the baptism merely shows this publicly.

1 Peter 3:18 is explicit, the Messiah himself died for sins, once and for all. The false claim that we do not have to work to be saved is taking the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice too far. No one benefits from a gift if they don't do the work of receiving it. (This is work in the general sense, which is very different from works (plural) in the Biblical sense).

The world demands we love you just the way you are. God loves us too much not to transform us by his love and his Anointed's sacrifice. The beginning of this transformation is our pledge to keep a good conscience toward God, baptism. See salvation v sanctification.

Hope this helps!

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug, I don't think you are discerning God's word correctly.

1 Peter 3:21 This also prefigures what delivers us now, the water of immersion, which is not the removal of dirt from the body, but one’s pledge to keep a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Yeshua the Messiah.​

Water immersion is nothing but symbolism, like walking across the stage in receiving your diploma. Both a graduation ceremony and baptism ceremony are public displays of commemorating an important event THAT HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE. I doubt that too many people make a commitment to Christ as they are being immersed. The commitment already took place and the baptism merely shows this publicly.

So you make a commitment to your girlfriend, and then sleep with her a week before the wedding; are you in the right? or is that sin? It is sin, because even though you made the commitment you are not married. The same applies to baptism; it is the wedding ceremony in which the Holy Spirit removes our sin, and unites us with Christ ("now pronounce you man and wife) in His death and resurrection (Col 2:11-14).

You skip where God says that baptism saves us. And focus on where He says that baptism is not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but is something else. That "something else" doesn't stop baptism from being where we receive salvation. But what is the "something else"? To borrow from a commentary:
Baptism now saves us, but not the mere outward ceremony; you may "make clean the outside" with the most scrupulous care; you may be very careful in putting away the filth of the flesh; but more is needed than the old Jewish washings, the frequent purifications. ... The outward and visible sign doth not save if separated from the inward and spiritual grace. The first is necessary, for it is an outward sign appointed by Christ; but it will not save without the second; those who draw near to God must have their bodies washed with pure water, but also their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience (Hebrews 10:22). The inner cleansing of the soul results in a good conscience, a consciousness of sincerity, of good intentions and desires, which will instinctively seek after God. And that good conscience is the effect of baptism, when baptism has its perfect work, when those who have once been grafted into the true Vine abide in Christ, when those who have once been baptized in one Spirit into one body keep the unity of the Spirit, Christ dwelling in them, and they in Christ.

1 Peter 3:18 is explicit, the Messiah himself died for sins, once and for all.

The only disagreement I have with this statement is your addition of the word "and". Scripture says that the Messiah died "once for all". This means that Jesus died once, and it is for all people for all time. "Once and for all" leans more toward "finally" or "at long last". But yes, Jesus did die for our sins, and Peter does make it clear that it is Jesus' sacrifice that makes it possible for salvation to be obtained in the first place.

The false claim that we do not have to work to be saved is taking the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice too far. No one benefits from a gift if they don't do the work of receiving it. (This is work in the general sense, which is very different from works (plural) in the Biblical sense).

I agree. Scripture is very clear that there are actions we must take (one example is the verbal confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), in the presence of witnesses (Matt 10:32)). And these are not the "good works" that are fruit of the Spirit which come after salvation is received.

The world demands we love you just the way you are. God loves us too much not to transform us by his love and his Anointed's sacrifice. The beginning of this transformation is our pledge to keep a good conscience toward God, baptism. See salvation v sanctification.

Our transformation begins when we are united with Christ. This is when our sins are removed, when the old man dies, and when the new man begins life. As Col 2:11-14 and Rom 6:1-4 say, this all happens when we are baptized into Christ, and 1 Pet 3:21 says that the baptism that saves us is in water (not spiritual baptism).

 

[Wrangler]

So you make a commitment to your girlfriend, and then sleep with her a week before the wedding; are you in the right? or is that sin? It is sin, because even though you made the commitment you are not married. The same applies to baptism

Horrible analogy. There is no sin in the waiting from making a commitment to Christ to water immersion.

 

[Doug Brents]

Horrible analogy. There is no sin in the waiting from making a commitment to Christ to water immersion.

Correct, there is no sin committed in waiting. But there is also no sin removed if one waits either. The point was not about the sin, but about the point at which the union occurs. We are not united with Christ through intellectual assent. We are united with Christ through water baptism, which is when the Holy Spirit unites us to Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

The point was not about the sin, but about the point at which the union occurs.

Exactly. This an obscure verse that informs us when this union occurs.

John 3:16 “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

Notice how there is no delay upon believing in him?

 

[Doug Brents]

Exactly. This an obscure verse that informs us when this union occurs.

John 3:16 “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

Notice how there is no delay upon believing in him?

This is like saying that the sign on the Cross with the accusation against Jesus said only "THE KING OF THE JEWS", without reference to what language it was in, and it said nothing else, just as Mark 15:26 says. But to accept that as the full and only truth would require ignoring John 16:19 which says that the sign said, "JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS" and it said it in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Now, is Mark more SCRIPTURE than John? Is there more TRUTH in Mark than in John? Should we take only Mark's account and throw away John's because we don't like Latin? or the fact that John mentions Nazareth? NO!!! John is equally Scripture, and must be taken with equal weight as Mark.

This same principle must be taken when considering John 3:16. John is not stating the whole of what is required, but is lumping into belief (which is the Greek word 'pistis' with means faith) all the actions that give life to faith that are required to bring one into relationship with Christ. This passage does not negate Acts 2:38, or 1 Pet 3:21, or Rom 6:1-4, or Col 2:11-14, or Rom 10:9-10, or Acts 3:19, or any of the other passages that state a specific thing must be part of bringing one into relationship with Christ. All of these passages are equally Scripture, and so must be given equal consideration and equal weight in this discussion.

 

[Wrangler]

This is like saying that the sign on the Cross with the accusation against Jesus said only "THE KING OF THE JEWS", without reference to what language it was in, and it said nothing else, just as Mark 15:26 says.

It's not like that at all. Labels. Substance. Not the same thing.

 

[Seabass]

I'm curious to know exactly what it is to call upon the name of the Lord. I'm sure we'll all agree the best place to find that information would be in God's word.

But before I start my deep dive into the Bible some verses came to mind that I've read before. The first one is about Bartimaeus the blind beggar who called out to Jesus for mercy and healing. The faith of Bartimaeus is seen in how he addresses Jesus as the Son of God. While the crowd tells the blind man to be quiet, Bartimaeus just became louder! When Jesus tells his disciples to bring the blind man over, a miracle happens because of his faith.

Mark 10:46-52 - And they came to Jericho. And as he was leaving Jericho with his disciples and a great crowd, Bartimaeus, a blind beggar, the son of Timaeus, was sitting by the roadside. And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!" And many rebuked him, telling him to be silent. But he cried out all the more, "Son of David, have mercy on me!" And Jesus stopped and said, "Call him." And they called the blind man, saying to him, "Take heart. Get up; he is calling you." And throwing off his cloak, he sprang up and came to Jesus. And Jesus said to him, "What do you want me to do for you?" And the blind man said to him, "Rabbi, let me recover my sight." And Jesus said to him, "Go your way; your faith has made you well." And immediately he recovered his sight and followed him on the way.

This one from Jeremiah sounds a lot like salvation.

“Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.” – Jeremiah 29: 12-13

For me this is an eternal principle and timeless promise - that the Lord is ever near to all who seek Him, and those that search for Him in truth, are certain of finding Him.

Calling on the name of the Lord is basic for salvation and presupposes faith in the Lord. God promises to save those who, in faith, call upon His name: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” Romans 10:13

And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls. Joel 2:32

Everyone who invokes the name of God for mercy and salvation, by or in the name of Jesus, shall be saved Acts 2:21

“There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved” Acts 4:12

"Calling upon the name of the Lord" means DOING what the Lord has said to do Lk 6:46...why call ye Me Lord, Lord and do not the things I say? Therefore calling upon the name of the Lord is NOT a mere mental acknowledgement of facts about Christ nor a verbal request to Christ to save but it is an obedience in DOING what the Lord says to do. How can one claim Christ to be their Lord when they disobey and do not do what Christ says to do?

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who doeth the will of My Father who is in heaven” (Mt 7:21)
Mt 7:24ff it is the wise man who heareth AND doeth the sayings of Christ, the foolish man heareth and doeth not.

The Lord requires men to believe (Jn 8:24) repent (Lk 13:3) confess (Mt 10:32-33) and be baptized (Mk 16:16) hence 'calling upon the name of the Lord' requires one to obey in believing, repenting, confessing and being baptized. Salvation is impossible apart from doing what the Lord says. Acts 22:16 when Saul submitted to baptism he was calling on the name of the Lord, he was doing what the Lord said to do. Again, how can one live in disobedience in doing what the Lord says yet still claim Jesus to be their Lord?

Peter in Acts 2:21 quoted Joel's prophecy that whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. This prophecy was fullfilled in v38:

v21---- call upon the name of the Lord >>>>>>>>>>>>> saved
v38 --- repent and be baptized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved/remission of sins

SInce there is but one way to be saved, no alternatives, then calling on the name of the Lord = repenting and being baptized.

Calling on the name of the Lord does not end with initial conversion but requires a life long doing/obedience in following the teachings/doctrines of Christ unto death....
2 Tim 2:22 “ Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart."
The imperative, present tense of 'flee' and 'follow' show on ongoing, sustained commanded devotion/obedience required of those that call upon the name of the Lord.

That one must DO what the Lord says does not fit with the man-made idea of easy believe onlyism but there is no way for Jesus to be Lord of one without that person DOING what the Lord says to do.