Biblical Facts against PSA !

civic said:
God controls some things not everything hence man has a free will to choose to resist His will. God desires all men to be saved, yet all men are not saved for they reject Him. He doesn't make them reject Him. He forces no one to be saved. Faith is mans responsibility.
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We choose..

God controls everything in regards to what our free will chooses.

That is why blessing and curses are opposites.
 
GeneZ said:
You did not read what I said correctly.....

I did not say God controls how we choose.
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If He determined everything beforehand that comes to pass then He controlled every thought, action, deed and molecule. Its all fixed with only the outcome that was predetermined to happen by God which included all sin, evil and horrific acts such as abortion, rape, serial killers, genocide etc....

I know many calvinists and reformed theologians who teach exactly what I said above. Calvin taught it too.
 
civic said:
If He determined everything beforehand that comes to pass then He controlled every thought, action, deed and molecule. Its all fixed with only the outcome that was predetermined to happen by God which included all sin, evil and horrific acts such as abortion, rape, serial killers, genocide etc....

I know many calvinists and reformed theologians who teach exactly what I said above. Calvin taught it too.
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I guess Calvin had no choice in what he taught?


Men get tripped up when they ponder the omniscience of God while themselves not being God.
;)
 
GeneZ said:
I guess Calvin had no choice in what he taught?


Men get tripped up when they ponder the omniscience of God while themselves not being God.
;)
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in calvinism no one has any real choices since they were all determined from before creation. So I have no choice that I do not believe in calvinism and a calvinist has no choice in believing anything but calvinism.
 
civic said:
in calvinism no one has any real choices since they were all determined from before creation. So I have no choice that I do not believe in calvinism and a calvinist has no choice in believing anything but calvinism.
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As in dancing, God can take the lead from our choices.....
Our choices that He allows for determines how God will have band play the song.

Unless..

God has a special request. Then we dance to His beat.

If God made us with no choice? We are just wallpaper.
Satan is very clever in trapping dumb sheep. God allows Satan to try.

Therefore.. Only the Truth keeps us free.
 
civic said:
in calvinism no one has any real choices since they were all determined from before creation. So I have no choice that I do not believe in calvinism and a calvinist has no choice in believing anything but calvinism.
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You sound badly confused on many things. Are you are a brand new Christian?
 
JonC said:
You sound badly confused on many things. Are you are a brand new Christian?
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Broad sweeping statements do not make it here.

I see you have done that several times so far.

Its a sign of a lack of content in what you think.

Get specific.
 
JonC said:
You sound badly confused on many things. Are you are a brand new Christian?
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You can say that as I was a Calvinist for the first 40 plus years as a Christian :).

But in all seriousness I’m sure I know what Calvin taught more than 99% of the Calvinists online. :)

Pick any topic on this forum you want to discuss with me and I will gladly see who has the biblical and exegetical view and who has the one based upon personal opinion or eisegesis.
 
JonC said:
You sound badly confused on many things. Are you are a brand new Christian?
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Thinking our sins don't need to be judged on the Cross is very dangerous doctrine to play with.
 
civic said:
If He determined everything beforehand that comes to pass then He controlled every thought, action, deed and molecule. Its all fixed with only the outcome that was predetermined to happen by God which included all sin, evil and horrific acts such as abortion, rape, serial killers, genocide etc....

I know many calvinists and reformed theologians who teach exactly what I said above. Calvin taught it too.
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Do you have a confessional statementy that shows calvinists believe that. Most every calvinist i know does not believe that.
 
civic said:
If He determined everything beforehand that comes to pass then He controlled every thought, action, deed and molecule. Its all fixed with only the outcome that was predetermined to happen by God which included all sin, evil and horrific acts such as abortion, rape, serial killers, genocide etc....

I know many calvinists and reformed theologians who teach exactly what I said above. Calvin taught it too.
Click to expand...


Why bother to control anything if that is the case?

Just create all souls hardwired to do what they will do then...
 
civic said:
@Joe in another thread did some homework and provided us with these Biblical facts in another thread. I thought it deserved its own thread. Why would anyone believe otherwise ? Why would they dispute these facts and believe just the opposite ?

1-The word punish is used one time in the NT. (Acts 4:21)
2-The word punished is used four times in the NT. (Acts 22:5, Acts 26:11, 2Th 1:9, 2Pe 2:9)
3-The word punishment is used four times in the NT. (Matt 25:46, 2Cor 2:6, Heb 10:29, 1 Pe 2:14)
4-The word wrath is used 38 times in the NT

Not one time are any of these words used towards our Lord by God.

The above facts in the Bible are Indisputable. Why someone would attempt to argue against the facts above from Gods word is beyond me. As @sethproton use to often say about the calvinist it must be a stronghold.

hope this helps !!!
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BUT - in the final analysis, it's "just another" Theological rabbit trail about something that's totally unimportant.

What IS important is that FAITH in the SIN OFFERING Jesus made on Calvary CLEANSES ME FROM SIN, and allows me to be infilled by the Holy Spirit (be "Born Again"). SO let the theologians "theorize", and earn their living.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
BUT - in the final analysis, it's "just another" Theological rabbit trail about something that's totally unimportant.

What IS important is that FAITH in the SIN OFFERING Jesus made on Calvary CLEANSES ME FROM SIN, and allows me to be infilled by the Holy Spirit (be "Born Again"). SO let the theologians "theorize", and earn their living.
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Yes Paul made is really simple in 1 Cor 15 with the gospel by which we are saved. That Christ for our sins accofrdning to the scriptures, that He was buried and raised in 3 days according to the scriptures, then Hr appeared to various people and groups over a 40 day period prior to His bodily Ascension and then last of all years later He appeared to Paul.
 
dizerner said:
A regular person on the street is not even going to know what a "sin offering" even is.
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No biggie. Paul limited HIS "Evangelism" to: Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. That plust Conviction of SIN by the Holy Spirit is what gets 'er done. There's plenty of time for "Theology" later.
dizerner said:
Don't you think it's important to be able to describe exactly what Jesus did for us?
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Sure. in a nutshell, our SINS are cleansed, removed, and we're PERFECT in Christ. That covers it nicely.
 

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