The old line used when your make-believe word definitions crash into the wall of reality.
Somehow, multiple Greek lexicons got it all wrong, but you figured it out. Right?
Get real.
Last edited:
Baptism "en" the Holy Ghost
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
The old line used when your make-believe word definitions crash into the wall of reality.
Somehow, multiple Greek lexicons got it all wrong, but you figured it out. Right?
Get real.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
No, lexicons, from my experience and understanding of them, when discussing what a gift is do not get into the different forms that a gift can take. The gift of the Holy Spirit is a singular thing, but it can take many, many forms.
Indwelling is what is being referred to in Acts 2:38, so too with Acts 10:45.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Unless, of course, it's John 20:22.
Thomas wasn't there at that time, and you can't figure out when he received the Holy Spirit.
I'll clue you in on something. Take a look at Acts 2:4.
Good job!
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
So what if Thomas wasn't there??? You weren't either.
And you do so apart from the fact of the spirit himself is stated as being received and not his gifts
Reception of the Spirit refers to indwelling
Doug Brents
Well-known member
It is not recorded, as many, many details are not recorded, but it is probable that Thomas received the indwelling of the Spirit when Jesus presented Himself to Thomas to examine the wounds. Yes, the previous statement is supposition, but we know that the Apostles as a whole had the Spirit (indwelling) before Pentecost, and received more of the Spirit (miraculous works, and the ability to pass on miraculous works to others) on Pentecost.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
As I stated in post#128, the Apostles had the indwelling of the Spirit from John 20:22 up to Pentecost. But they received more of the Spirit on Pentecost. It happened in reverse order with Cornelius (he received miraculous gifts and then the indwelling later). I do not believe that the phrase "received the Holy Spirit" always refers to the indwelling or always refers to miraculous gifts.
You have not scripturally dealt with the phrase receive the spirit. It refers to the personal reception of the spirit not the reception of a gift of the spirit. This is clear from
John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 14:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
and even the verse you quote
John 20:22 (ESV) — 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
you have not shown a verse where receiving the Spirit refers simply to receiving a gift from the Spirit
your rejection of its meaning is not based on scripture but your theology of water baptism
The last sentence says it all.
yes it does
Those of the church of Christ are so fond of the water, but are so confused about the Holy Spirit.
Water is their focus/god instead of the Holy Spirit (God).
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Acts 2:4 - "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with different tongues, as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out."
Acts 10:45-46 - "All the Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had also been poured out on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God."
John 7 and 14 that you noted above speak clearly of the indwelling, not the miraculous gifts. But both of these events in Acts speak of the reception of the miraculous working of the Spirit, not the indwelling. This has nothing to do with baptism; it has to do with what the Word says was received.
1 Cor 12:7-11 - "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills."
Complete
Well-known member
BTW there were more than the 12 in the upper room that day
You are welcome. We are here to learn from one another.
It seems you me you assume if manifestations of the spirit are present it is simply about gifts and does not include reception of the Spirit
That is just an assumption. And it still does not deal with the phrase received the Spirit.
Acts 10:47 (KJV 1900)
47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
it was their reception of the spirit that convinced the Jews the gentiles were given life
Acts 11:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
life is by the indwelling Spirit
John 7:38–39 (ESV) — 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Citing Acts 11:15f. and 15:8 the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology reads: "Consequently at critical or problematic moments of the early mission thereafter what was looked for above all else was the reception or possession of the Spirit…" (3:699, Spirit, Dunn).
Indeed, every time a dispute arose in The Book of Acts about the conversion of these Gentiles Peter always appealed to their reception of the Holy Spirit and never to their water baptism.
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