Doug Brents
Well-known member
You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but I have given Scriptural evidence for my belief. Just because it does not agree with what you believe does not make it wrong. You are not the ultimate authority.
Baptism "en" the Holy Ghost
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Because nowhere does it teach they were.
No, you have make-believe definitions to what you assign to the words of Scripture.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
How about John 20:22 (without the cessationist glasses on).
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Chuckle!! Just like every other denominational theological system. JUST LOOK at all the "Special" private definitions that Calvinists stick on things. Did you know that "Saved" and "Born again", are two different things??? WHo knew???
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Was Thomas there?
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Nope. Why would THAT be important?? YOU weren't there either, and neither was I. Remember Thomas didn't even believe that Jesus had been ressurected - yet.
So when did Thomas receive the Holy Spirit?
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Doesn't say. Which "theological theory" from which "Denomination"would you like??
How do you know that when Thomas came to FAITH (john 20:28), Jesus didn't "Breath on Him" also??
Obviously not yours, because you are unable to tell me when.
Move along now child.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
I'm glad to know it is not just me to whom you exhibit your arrogant condescension. This type of behavior is not welcome here. Please be civil.
Being civil would involve not playing make-believe with how the words of the Bible are properly defined.
There are times false teachers need to be dealt with accordingly (Acts 13:10).
Bob wrote the following to me which is condescending, "(without the cessationist glasses on)".
But you didn't say anything about that.
So take your self-righteous attitude and......yeah.
civic
Well-known member
It would help if we defined these different words/phrases regarding the Holy Spirit. Once we agree on those definitions then there can be a good discussion. But I'm pretty sure several of us have different understandings on what they mean. Any one want to get the definitions ? I don't have any time to do that today unfortunately.
If Greek lexicons are cited regarding the Holy Spirit, will they be believed or rejected?
civic
Well-known member
I will believe them especially with Scripture cited.
I will believe them especially with Scripture cited.
By having "the gift of the Holy Spirit" in Acts 10:45 demonstrates these Gentiles had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).
"The gift of the Holy Spirit" in Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45 refers to the indwelling Holy Spirit
1. The same phrase
2. By the same author
3. In the same book
4. In the same context (the preaching of the Lordship and resurrection of Christ)
a. BDAG (3rd Edition): receive the Spirit as a gift Ac. 2:38; cp. 10:45 (dōrea, page 266).
b. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: with an epexegetical gen. of the thing given, the Holy Ghost, Ac 2:38, 10:45 (dōrea, page 161).
Doug believes Acts 2:38 refers to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
But then he (incorrectly) denies this is what is taking place in Acts 10:45. The two Greek lexicons quoted above associate both uses of "gift" in regards to the Holy Spirit. They do not make a differentiation that Doug does.
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Doug Brents
Well-known member
I freely admit that both of those passages have the same phrase and refer to the same Spirit, but I do not believe they have the same meaning. Yes, the Holy Spirit is a gift that we receive. But there are many gifts that He gives in different contexts. I believe that the same gift of the Spirit was given in Acts 2:4 as was given in Acts 10:44, and a different manifestation of that gift was given in Acts 2:38 and in Acts 10:48.
No Greek lexicon agrees with you.
And that is what took place in Acts 10:45 and Acts 2:38.
It reads "gift" in both Acts 2:28 and Acts 10:45.
You make it plural, but both passages do not read that way.
Zero Greek lexicons to back up your claim.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Greek lexicons are not Scripture, nor do they deal with the distinction I am making.
Agreed, but what part of the Holy Spirit was received in each of those verses? It is not stated in any of them, but I believe that the evidence of the contexts supports a different gift of the same Spirit in each of those passages.
No, they received the gift (singular) of the Spirit (singular), but the Spirit can give many gifts, one of which is His dwelling in our heart. This is not His only action, nor does He have to reside in a person's heart to give them the other gifts He can give.
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