Are we under any covenants?

[Grace ambassador]

Precious friends, for your prayerful and Careful consideration:

"When the Bible speaks of covenants in the specific sense, it is speaking of the covenants given to God’s chosen nation Israel. No one today in the dispensation of Grace is a partaker of the covenants which are made between Israel and God.

Hebrews 8:7 speaks of the first covenant and the second covenant given to Israel. The first covenant describes the Law as given to Israel at Horeb:

“The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.” – Deuteronomy 5:2

The second covenant, or ‘better covenant’, is the ‘new covenant’ also given to Israel (Heb 8:13, 12:24).

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;…” – Hebrews 8:10

And again in Jeremiah:

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:” – Jeremiah 31:31

Knowing that the covenants were given to Israel and Judah, Paul stated concerning his brethren according to the flesh, Israel,

“…to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;…” Romans 9:4

Gentiles and the Body of Christ

The covenants were between God and Israel regarding their future redemption as spoken of by the prophets since the world began. However, Gentiles in time past as well as those in the body
of Christ today are not a part of the covenants.

Paul says,

“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:” – Ephesians 2:12

In order for a Gentile in time past to get the blessings of God they had to follow the provisions of the covenant. (See “Did Gentiles in the Old Testament get saved?” for more.) However, they were estranged from the covenants given to Israel.

During the dispensation of Grace, believers receive the benefits of the redemptive work of Christ
on the cross outside of any covenant relationship. It was purely by God’s grace that we receive
eternal life and the blessings associated with salvation. Otherwise grace would not be grace
(Romans 11:6).

Today there is neither Jew nor Gentile. There is no special status before God for any nation today.

“For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.” – Romans 11:32

Instead of a covenant providing the necessary terms of redemption, believers today are
of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ by the gospel of the grace of God
(Eph 3:6, Titus 1:2-3). We receive the mercy and the grace of God apart from our adherence
to any covenant given in time past, we receive it by faith (Romans 5:1, 8-10)."

(J Johnson, a fellow Grace ambassador)

Amen.

 

[Olde Tymer]

.
It is my understanding that according to Matt 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20, and
1Cor 11:25, Jesus' crucifixion ratified the new covenant.

It is also my understanding that by means of Jesus' crucifixion both Jew and Gentile
are unified together with Christ in the new covenant. (Eph 2:11-22)

FAQ: What's so great about the new covenant. What's it got that the old covenant
doesn't?

REPLY: The old covenant allows God to pardon the people's sins, but doesn't allow
Him to forget their sins (Ex 34:6-8) and in point of fact, the people are reminded of
their sins once a year on Yom Kippur; whereas the new covenant offers both
pardoning and forgetting. (Jer 31:34 & Heb 8:12)

For example; former US President Gerald Ford pardoned former US President
Richard Nixon; but although the pardon kept Mr. Nixon out of prison, it did nothing
to clear his name, viz: he's still in the history books for criminal conduct, and unless
he gets his conduct cleared from the books kept by Almighty God, he will have to
face justice via the great white throne event depicted by Rev 20:11-15 where the
lost will be terminated by a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a
kettle of molten iron.
_

 

[koberstein]

Precious friends, for your prayerful and Careful consideration:

"When the Bible speaks of covenants in the specific sense, it is speaking of the covenants given to God’s chosen nation Israel. No one today in the dispensation of Grace is a partaker of the covenants which are made between Israel and God.

Hebrews 8:7 speaks of the first covenant and the second covenant given to Israel. The first covenant describes the Law as given to Israel at Horeb:


The second covenant, or ‘better covenant’, is the ‘new covenant’ also given to Israel (Heb 8:13, 12:24).


And again in Jeremiah:


Knowing that the covenants were given to Israel and Judah, Paul stated concerning his brethren according to the flesh, Israel,


Gentiles and the Body of Christ

The covenants were between God and Israel regarding their future redemption as spoken of by the prophets since the world began. However, Gentiles in time past as well as those in the body
of Christ today are not a part of the covenants.

Paul says,


In order for a Gentile in time past to get the blessings of God they had to follow the provisions of the covenant. (See “Did Gentiles in the Old Testament get saved?” for more.) However, they were estranged from the covenants given to Israel.

During the dispensation of Grace, believers receive the benefits of the redemptive work of Christ
on the cross outside of any covenant relationship. It was purely by God’s grace that we receive
eternal life and the blessings associated with salvation. Otherwise grace would not be grace
(Romans 11:6).

Today there is neither Jew nor Gentile. There is no special status before God for any nation today.


Instead of a covenant providing the necessary terms of redemption, believers today are
of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ by the gospel of the grace of God
(Eph 3:6, Titus 1:2-3). We receive the mercy and the grace of God apart from our adherence
to any covenant given in time past, we receive it by faith (Romans 5:1, 8-10)."

(J Johnson, a fellow Grace ambassador)

Amen.

View attachment 602

Thank you for that Truth on the covenants.

 

[synergy]

Precious friends, for your prayerful and Careful consideration:

"When the Bible speaks of covenants in the specific sense, it is speaking of the covenants given to God’s chosen nation Israel. No one today in the dispensation of Grace is a partaker of the covenants which are made between Israel and God.

Hebrews 8:7 speaks of the first covenant and the second covenant given to Israel. The first covenant describes the Law as given to Israel at Horeb:


The second covenant, or ‘better covenant’, is the ‘new covenant’ also given to Israel (Heb 8:13, 12:24).


And again in Jeremiah:


Knowing that the covenants were given to Israel and Judah, Paul stated concerning his brethren according to the flesh, Israel,


Gentiles and the Body of Christ

The covenants were between God and Israel regarding their future redemption as spoken of by the prophets since the world began. However, Gentiles in time past as well as those in the body
of Christ today are not a part of the covenants.

Paul says,


In order for a Gentile in time past to get the blessings of God they had to follow the provisions of the covenant. (See “Did Gentiles in the Old Testament get saved?” for more.) However, they were estranged from the covenants given to Israel.

During the dispensation of Grace, believers receive the benefits of the redemptive work of Christ
on the cross outside of any covenant relationship. It was purely by God’s grace that we receive
eternal life and the blessings associated with salvation. Otherwise grace would not be grace
(Romans 11:6).

Today there is neither Jew nor Gentile. There is no special status before God for any nation today.


Instead of a covenant providing the necessary terms of redemption, believers today are
of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ by the gospel of the grace of God
(Eph 3:6, Titus 1:2-3). We receive the mercy and the grace of God apart from our adherence
to any covenant given in time past, we receive it by faith (Romans 5:1, 8-10)."

(J Johnson, a fellow Grace ambassador)

Amen.

View attachment 602

Actually, there is a Covenant that the Bible says that we all come under. It is the Ultimate Covenant, that clearly supercedes all other covenants. Read Luke 22:20.

20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

Gentiles are definitely part of that New Covenant brought near by the blood of Christ, as declared by Paul in Eph 2:11-13

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

 

[koberstein]

Actually the New Covenant is the Old Covenant amended because now there is a new High Priest Yeshua.

 

[Olde Tymer]

.
Moses' law has its uses (e.g. Rom 3:20 & Gal 3:23-26) but folks unified with
Christ are not covenanted with God to comply with it. And that's fortunate
because Moses' law slams non compliance with a number of very undesirable
curses. (Lev 26:14-39, Deut 27:15-26, & Deut 28:15-68)
_

 

[Behold]

PAUL teaches that Jesus is the mediator of the "new Testament".

This is the blood atonement.

IN the same NT chapter he compares it to the first Testament..

So, we see that this is covenant related, as Paul teaches that this ATONEMENT is related to paying for SIN, like this..

"God hath made Jesus to be sin for "US">.

The "US" is John 3:16...(World) as you find as this... 2 Corinthians 5:19 and John 3:17.

So, we see that this is not "just Israel" who is being addressed.

As the Cross of Christ IS the New Testament and this is given for the sin of the world, as a eternal sin offering.

And all who BELIEVE, are "imputed" with this Offering, as "the Gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Righteousness" and "The Gift of eternal Life".

 

[jeremiah1five]

Precious friends, for your prayerful and Careful consideration:

"When the Bible speaks of covenants in the specific sense, it is speaking of the covenants given to God’s chosen nation Israel. No one today in the dispensation of Grace is a partaker of the covenants which are made between Israel and God.

Hebrews 8:7 speaks of the first covenant and the second covenant given to Israel. The first covenant describes the Law as given to Israel at Horeb:


The second covenant, or ‘better covenant’, is the ‘new covenant’ also given to Israel (Heb 8:13, 12:24).


And again in Jeremiah:


Knowing that the covenants were given to Israel and Judah, Paul stated concerning his brethren according to the flesh, Israel,


Gentiles and the Body of Christ

The covenants were between God and Israel regarding their future redemption as spoken of by the prophets since the world began. However, Gentiles in time past as well as those in the body
of Christ today are not a part of the covenants.

Paul says,


In order for a Gentile in time past to get the blessings of God they had to follow the provisions of the covenant. (See “Did Gentiles in the Old Testament get saved?” for more.) However, they were estranged from the covenants given to Israel.

During the dispensation of Grace, believers receive the benefits of the redemptive work of Christ
on the cross outside of any covenant relationship. It was purely by God’s grace that we receive
eternal life and the blessings associated with salvation. Otherwise grace would not be grace
(Romans 11:6).

Today there is neither Jew nor Gentile. There is no special status before God for any nation today.


Instead of a covenant providing the necessary terms of redemption, believers today are
of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ by the gospel of the grace of God
(Eph 3:6, Titus 1:2-3). We receive the mercy and the grace of God apart from our adherence
to any covenant given in time past, we receive it by faith (Romans 5:1, 8-10)."

(J Johnson, a fellow Grace ambassador)

Amen.

You start out strong and correct but then identify "we" and "believers" and "us" as Gentiles and deviate from the original truth by not defining what Saul meant by "neither Jew or Gentile" and then err by saying "there is no special status for any nation."

This is the "special status" of Israel declared by God. It hasn't changed:

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deut. 7:5–9.

And God's attitude towards the non-Hebrew nations:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

Now, here's a question or two for you. But first...
You correctly state the God has no covenant with Gentiles.
You correctly state the God has covenant with the Hebrew people, Abraham's seed, the children of Israel, the House of Israel, and the House of Judah, and that these are redemption and deliverance covenants for Israel. It is also true that Messiah/Redeemer/Deliverer/King/Savior identify the man called Jesus Christ and that He was prophesied and Promised to and for Israel, which He did come to and for Israel. Scripture is also clear that Jesus Christ, Israel's Redeemer was made under the Law to redeem those under the Law" (which identifies the Hebrew people and seed of Abraham - Israel) and they are the recipients of God's Redemption and Deliverance - and yes, from political enemies, mortal enemies, and from sin.

Question #1: If Gentiles (non-Hebrews) have no redemption covenant with God and the NT identifies Gentiles as being born-again, what's going on here? Why are Gentiles being saved. There is no covenant - and if memory serves - no prophecy of Gentiles receiving salvation from God in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets.

Question #2: Are you prepared to say the obvious and reasonable to answer question #1?

 

[Truther]

Precious friends, for your prayerful and Careful consideration:

"When the Bible speaks of covenants in the specific sense, it is speaking of the covenants given to God’s chosen nation Israel. No one today in the dispensation of Grace is a partaker of the covenants which are made between Israel and God.

Hebrews 8:7 speaks of the first covenant and the second covenant given to Israel. The first covenant describes the Law as given to Israel at Horeb:


The second covenant, or ‘better covenant’, is the ‘new covenant’ also given to Israel (Heb 8:13, 12:24).


And again in Jeremiah:


Knowing that the covenants were given to Israel and Judah, Paul stated concerning his brethren according to the flesh, Israel,


Gentiles and the Body of Christ

The covenants were between God and Israel regarding their future redemption as spoken of by the prophets since the world began. However, Gentiles in time past as well as those in the body
of Christ today are not a part of the covenants.

Paul says,


In order for a Gentile in time past to get the blessings of God they had to follow the provisions of the covenant. (See “Did Gentiles in the Old Testament get saved?” for more.) However, they were estranged from the covenants given to Israel.

During the dispensation of Grace, believers receive the benefits of the redemptive work of Christ
on the cross outside of any covenant relationship. It was purely by God’s grace that we receive
eternal life and the blessings associated with salvation. Otherwise grace would not be grace
(Romans 11:6).

Today there is neither Jew nor Gentile. There is no special status before God for any nation today.


Instead of a covenant providing the necessary terms of redemption, believers today are
of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ by the gospel of the grace of God
(Eph 3:6, Titus 1:2-3). We receive the mercy and the grace of God apart from our adherence
to any covenant given in time past, we receive it by faith (Romans 5:1, 8-10)."

(J Johnson, a fellow Grace ambassador)

Amen.

View attachment 602

We are under national Israel’s future covenant. It is not fully implemented yet and we only get a part of it right now in a dark glass experience.

 

[jeremiah1five]

We are under national Israel’s future covenant. It is not fully implemented yet and we only get a part of it right now in a dark glass experience.

Gentiles are not, never have been, and never will be "under" the Hebrew covenants. The covenant began with Abraham and his seed (Isaac, Jacob, Jacob's son's, etc.) and Gentiles are not mentioned nor named in this covenant; Gentiles do not come from Abraham's seed. Nor are Gentiles "under" the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant, which is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ.

 

[Truther]

Gentiles are not, never have been, and never will be "under" the Hebrew covenants. The covenant began with Abraham and his seed (Isaac, Jacob, Jacob's son's, etc.) and Gentiles are not mentioned nor named in this covenant; Gentiles do not come from Abraham's seed. Nor are Gentiles "under" the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant, which is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ.

We are now included into only a specific part of the future covenant to the fathers concerning national Israel.
This is per Hebrews 10:15-17.

The rest of the passage per Heb 8/ Jer 31 is their future covenant addressed specifically to them.

 

[jeremiah1five]

We are now included into only a specific part of the future covenant to the fathers concerning national Israel.
This is per Hebrews 10:15-17.

The rest of the passage per Heb 8/ Jer 31 is their future covenant addressed specifically to them.

Your passage in Hebrews is a quote from Jeremiah 31:31-34.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:15–18.

Compare:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jer. 31:33.

34c For I will forgive their iniquity, And I will remember their sin no more. Jer. 31:34.

Hebrews was written TO THE HEBREWS/JEWS. Hello?
There is no future covenant. You just need to know how to interpret Scripture. There's the Old Testament prophecy, and there's the New Testament fulfillment. The Jeremiah prophecy was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost with the advent of the Holy Spirit, and Jews being born again as the Jeremiah prophecy said.

 

[Truther]

Your passage in Hebrews is a quote from Jeremiah 31:31-34.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:15–18.

Compare:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jer. 31:33.

34c For I will forgive their iniquity, And I will remember their sin no more. Jer. 31:34.

Hebrews was written TO THE HEBREWS/JEWS. Hello?
There is no future covenant. You just need to know how to interpret Scripture. There's the Old Testament prophecy, and there's the New Testament fulfillment. The Jeremiah prophecy was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost with the advent of the Holy Spirit, and Jews being born again as the Jeremiah prophecy said.

So only Jews today are saved?

The prophecy of Jeremiah 31 already happened 2000 years ago? All Israel and Judah was saved from the least to the greatest and they ceased witnessing to one another to know the Lord?

 

[Truther]

Why didn’t you post the rest of the verse?…


34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[Truther]

Who is this highlighted?…

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

 

[Truther]

When did this happen in history?…

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them,


… or is that when they see Jesus face-to-face, and every eye shall see him?

 

[jeremiah1five]

So only Jews today are saved?

The prophecy of Jeremiah 31 already happened 2000 years ago? All Israel and Judah was saved from the least to the greatest and they ceased witnessing to one another to know the Lord?

Well, I know for Scripture Jesus isn't coming back for Gentiles especially since when He does return Gentiles will be attacking Israel and take half the city before Jesus returns with the armies of heaven to destroy God's enemies, Christ's enemies, the Holy Spirit's enemies, and Israel's enemies.

God saves Israel based upon covenant and prophecies that support that covenant.
Last I checked the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets God has no covenant with Gentiles.
None.
By the way are you born again of the Spirit?
If so, maybe you're Samaritan.

 

[Truther]

Well, I know for Scripture Jesus isn't coming back for Gentiles especially since when He does return Gentiles will be attacking Israel and take half the city before Jesus returns with the armies of heaven to destroy God's enemies, Christ's enemies, the Holy Spirit's enemies, and Israel's enemies.

God saves Israel based upon covenant and prophecies that support that covenant.
Last I checked the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets God has no covenant with Gentiles.
None.
By the way are you born again of the Spirit?
If so, maybe you're Samaritan.

You are correct that God has no covenant with the gentiles. I have been saying all along that his covenant is with the fathers concerning the future national Israel. Not necessarily. the Israel that we see right now, but the Israel that is still existing at the second coming of Christ to save them. All I’m saying is per verses 15 - 17 of chapter 10 in Hebrews. We are included in this particular small portion of their future covenant. We don’t have our own covenant. This is a pre-millennial partial, dark glass, experience.
I hope you understand what I’m telling you guys.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You are correct that God has no covenant with the gentiles. I have been saying all along that his covenant is with the fathers concerning the future national Israel. Not necessarily. the Israel that we see right now, but the Israel that is still existing at the second coming of Christ to save them. All I’m saying is per verses 15 - 17 of chapter 10 in Hebrews. We are included in this particular small portion of their future covenant. We don’t have our own covenant. This is a pre-millennial partial, dark glass, experience.
I hope you understand what I’m telling you guys.

Hebrews 10:15ff has already happened and there are no more covenants in existence except the New Covenant which is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled in Christ.
The Israel existing today are the descendants of the Israel of the past. Soon, God will remove Israel's blindness, send two witnesses that will make a difference, and we will all enter Daniel's seventieth week and prepare for the end.
When Christ said, "It is finished," believe Him.

 

[Truther]

Hebrews 10:15ff has already happened and there are no more covenants in existence except the New Covenant which is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled in Christ.
The Israel existing today are the descendants of the Israel of the past. Soon, God will remove Israel's blindness, send two witnesses that will make a difference, and we will all enter Daniel's seventieth week and prepare for the end.
When Christ said, "It is finished," believe Him.

You’re teaching replacement theology. You got duped.