brightfame52
Active Member
How u fail to understand you trusting in the flesh.
And All Israel Shall Be Saved!
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
brightfame52
Active Member
The True Israel of God, the Church, Paul calls them the circumcision, which is another name for Israel Phil 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Paul was writing to the Church at Philippi Phil 1:1
Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
In fact, all the Saints in Christ Jesus are the circumcision, which worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus. Circumcision here is not physical, what the jews practiced under the Old Covenant, no it has nothing to do with that. Its the circumcision of the heart Rom 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
What's been stated here is the New Birth, Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
The circumcision of Christ Col 2:11
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
This is the Church, Spiritual Israel, Christs seed !7
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Paul was writing to the Church at Philippi Phil 1:1
Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
In fact, all the Saints in Christ Jesus are the circumcision, which worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus. Circumcision here is not physical, what the jews practiced under the Old Covenant, no it has nothing to do with that. Its the circumcision of the heart Rom 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
What's been stated here is the New Birth, Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
The circumcision of Christ Col 2:11
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
This is the Church, Spiritual Israel, Christs seed !7
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel when the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL came down from heaven as a rushing, mighty wind on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest - also known as Pentecost, ca. AD 34.
God Promised His Spirit to Israel. There is no Scripture in the Bible that says God promised His Spirit to Gentiles.
NONE.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
What part of "but of God" are you having trouble with?
"BORN OF GOD" is the key. Don't ignore it.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
So, a Russian German born from a Russian and a German is not Russian German?
You are incorrect.
brightfame52
Active Member
Trusting in the flesh
brightfame52
Active Member
You trust in the flesh
Rockerduck
Active Member
Joel prophesied all mankind will receive the Holy Spirit
Joel 2:28-29 -KJV
And it shall come to pass afterward,
that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions:
29 also upon the servants and upon the handmaids
in those days will I pour out my spirit.
brightfame52
Active Member
If theyre of the election of grace
Rockerduck
Active Member
Of course, just like Jesus said He died for all, but all will not accept Him.
brightfame52
Active Member
False
Rockerduck
Active Member
How so? Many are called and few chosen. Jesus said that.
I don't trust in the flesh. Salvation is by faith in Christ. If you need that explained more fully, I'm sure there are plenty of people who can explain to you how that works.
Is it really that simple when it comes to a Jew and a non-Jewish Gentile? Didn't Peter say he could be put to death for having dealings with Gentiles? I am speaking of how you present it. I understand how the Bible presents it, because, even Moses, after receiving the Law, married a non-Jewish Gentile. The only people who had a problem with it were Aaron and Miriam. God made HIs point in saying that He really didn't care/mind that Moses did it. God had no problem with it. What God did have a problem with was that Moses was God's servant, and thus anything anyone said or did against Moses was also directed at God. Listening to what God had to say about Moses let's us know that God considered Moses to be "his guy". And you don't mess with... "his guy", or you mess with God. The most important question God asked was... where was their fear? They were attacking Moses, and by direct connection, God Himself, yet they showed no fear.
Now you are clear in stating that when Peter went to Cornelius and the Gentiles and they were added to the church separately from the Jews, was because they were mixed race. So if, as you say, they were handled differently because they weren't fully Jews, that means that that is basically built into the Jewish system. So in the same way, shouldn't David have been treated completely different, since he was mixed race, and perhaps in the worst way because his grand mother was from *gasp* Moab. Moab totally destroyed the basis of Israel through what Baalim had told the king to do in order to undermine Israel. Intermarriage. God dealt with Baalim through a donkey.
The point is, the very foundation of your belief is flawed. Jews and non-Jewish Gentiles are a part of the church, and both are saved. For God is not just the God of the Jews, but the God of the Gentiles as well. Jesus was not a priest of Israel, so His intercessions is NOT solely to Israel. In order for Jesus priestly work and intercession to be isolated ot only Israel, He would have to be a priest of Israel. However, He is a priest in the line of Melchizedek, thus His intercession is for the whole world. (Specifically to those who believe in Him by faith, such as yourself.) The covenants have nothing to do with salvation. There is a promise that speaks to the gospel, which Paul brought up. The one that says that the nations of the Earth (understood in translation to mean the whole planet) would be blessed in Christ, because of Abraham's faith. And Paul is clear to say that faith was BEFORE Abraham was circumcised, and BEFORE the covenants. Hence salvation by faith has nothing to do with circumcision, or covenants. Abraham was justified before he was circumcised, and before he received the covenants.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Context.
27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
And my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:27–28.
On the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest three thousand JEWS were given the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL and three thousand JEWS were born-again and saved from their sin. At Jesus' last PASSOVER there were twelve JEWISH disciples present and Jesus said His "blood and body" were given "TO YOU" (JEWS.) There were no Gentiles at Jesus' last Passover because Gentiles were NEVER part or included in the Law and under the Ceremonial Law instructing and commanding animal sacrifices and worship of the God of Abraham.
Every day after Pentecost thousands of Jews were being born-again daily. God's Promise to Israel to pour out of Himself His Spirit upon Israel was being fulfilled. The Jewish prophets prophesied it, and a Jewish Messiah made it happen. Gentiles were NEVER under thye Law and thus were OUTSIDE the Promises of God. Saul said it best:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.
Saul says NOTHING about non-Hebrew Gentiles being saved because Gentiles were outside the covenant promises of God.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
God's prophets were prophets TO ISRAEL.
God's Word was given to Israel.
Jesus fulfilled the Law - especially the Ceremonial Law that instructed and commanded the high priest offer sacrifices yearly to atone - temporarily - the sins of the children of Israel under those Laws.
The high priest never left Israel to offer sacrifices for Gentiles. And Jesus as High Priest did not offer Himself for the sins of Gentiles. Gentiles were the enemy of God and of Israel. They were outside the covenants of God. The high priest sprinkled the Mercy Seat of the Hebrew Ark of the Covenant with the blood of the sacrifice and Jesus as High Priest was sent as Promised by God to the children of Israel to atone the sins of the children of Israel.
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.
There are NO GENTILES (non-Hebrews) that are mentioned in this passage by Saul. Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee and He knows that there are NO GENTILES in covenant with God.
NONE.
Stop adding to the Bible.
brightfame52
Active Member
In my opinion u do when it comes to israel, that says a lot
Rockerduck
Active Member
All flesh means all flesh.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes because at that time the church, the body of Christ was there. Even the prophets were part of the Church, the Body of Christ. For the most part they were hated and persecuted by the jews according to the flesh.
Matt 23 30-38
Israel according to the flesh hated Israel the Church, the Body of Christ
You are wrong. When the word Gentiles is used in the scripture it is speaking of non-Hebrew Gentiles. Mixed race Jews are not a race, and ethnos means race. Again, if you are trying to say that mixed-race Jews were shut out of the covenant, and had nothing to do with the covenant, then Jesus genealogy presents a problem. Jesus was mixed race, as one can clearly see several Gentiles in his genealogy. Which means, He isn't a part of the covenant, so how can He present a new covenant?
Again, the covenant saves no one. What is so important about Romans 3:23? You have to look at Romans again. Paul says this:
"14 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to the [j]uncultured, both to the wise and to the foolish."
Understand, we have two sets here, and they are supposed to be contrasts. How do can we be sure. both to..., both to. So wise to the foolish is a contrast. So Greeks to the uncultured is a contrast. So the proper translation/interpretation is the uncultured to the cultured. Since being hellenized is to be cultured as a Greek. So when Paul says that salvation is first to the Jew then to the Greek, he is speaking of both cultured and uncultured non-Jewish Gentiles. And it is specific. Jews are first.
Romans 1 (end of) speaks to the uncultured people. They are so depraved, there is no hope for them (outside of God's grace). God keeps giving them over to worse and worse sins, because they refuse to recognize God based on all the evidences that surround them, and which they can see in themselves, such as a conscience. They keep rejecting God so He keeps turning them over to worse and worse sin. Romans 2 speaks to the cultured Gentiles. This is important for Rome, because most of the church was non-Jewish Gentiles, because the Jews had been kicked out of Rome, and had only started coming back.
The thing that sets the cultured apart from the uncultured is: " 14 For when Gentiles who do not have [q]the Law [r]instinctively perform the requirements of the Law, these, though not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of mankind through Christ Jesus.
They don't have the law (of course not, they aren't under the covenant), yet they instinctively perform the requirements of the law, so are a law unto themselves. They are "cultured". Paul also speaks to the Jews. What condemnation of the Jews does Paul have in dealing with the Law/covenant you say saves them? " 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written."
The Jews cause non-Jewish Gentiles to blaspheme God. I'm not sure that God is happy with that.
Paul even goes after the Jews with this:
"25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice [aa]the Law; but if you are a violator [ab]of the Law, your circumcision has turned into uncircumcision. 26 So if the [ac]uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will his uncircumcision not be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who [ad]though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a violator [ae]of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God."
And when Paul says uncircumcision, he is speaking of non-Jewish Gentiles. That is why he emphasises physical uncircumcision. They are OUTSIDE the covenants and the law, as you say above. "Gentiles were outside the covenant promises of God."
To know if Paul really was going after the Jews in this passage, look at the start of chapter 3:
"Then what [a]advantage does the Jew have? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First, that they were entrusted with the actual words of God. 3 What then? If some did not believe, their [c]unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4 [d]Far from it! Rather, God must prove to be true, though every person be found a liar, as it is written:
“So that You are justified in Your words,
And prevail [e]when You are judged.”"
The what advatage does the Jew have... over what? Non-Jewish Gentiles who are outside the covenant promises of God. Paul makes the distinction clear by not saying, ho hum, sure they have advantages. No. He says... "GREAT IN EVERY ASPECT". He then brings up the important points. Were non-Hebrew Gentiles entrusted with the actual words of God? No. THe Jews were. And Paul is clear here that those who don't believe are damned, however, just because some are damned doesn't mean that God's faithfulness to Israel is nullified. HE has a remnant, the true Israel, and they will be saved.
These three groups are introduced, which leads to the most important point you seem to deny. All three cultured, uncultured, and the Jews. Romans 3:23 FOR ALL HAVE SINNED... Jews included. Jews have fallen short of the glory of God, just as the cultured and uncultured. There is more context, but it doesn't change this point. Non-Hebrew Gentiles and Jews have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So, to the Jew, after Paul speaks of justification being in Christ and not the covenants/law, says this:
"27 Where then is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 [x]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works [y]of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the [z]circumcised [aa]by faith and the [ab]uncircumcised through faith is one."
Salvation is for both the JEws and the Gentiles. Jesus is the intercessor and mediator of the new covenant, but... He isn't a priest of the Jews. He is of the line of Melchizedek. As such, His intercession/mediation is not for just Israel, but for the whole world. However, Jesus is the Messiah King of the Jews only. His Messianic Kingdom will be over the whole world, but His country will be Israel, and His throne, the seat of David in Jerusalem. (The best way I can put it.) However, as seen in Daniel 2, the Kingdom is global. And the key thing to notice is, the coming in of the Messianic Kingdom brings an end to the age of the Gentiles. So it is speaking to the true end of existence as we have known it from the days of Nebuchadnezzar, starting at the head of his statue. Everything will be different. Gentiles will be there, because someone populates the world, while Israel has their promised land inheritance of the Abrahamic covenant. They are believers in Christ who survived the tribulation. They will repopulate the Earth.
You are missing important points of scripture. The new covenant replaces the Mosaic, but it is global in scope. Unlike the Mosaic covenant, it is a covenant of salvation. Christ is the priest, the intercessor, the mediator of the New Covenant, but, as we know, He is not a priest of Israel. That line of priests is based in death. He is a priest according to the line of Melchizedek, and that is the scope of his intercession. The world. Those who enter this covenant, enter by faith. Like Paul said, The true Jew, in the case of the new covenant, is the one who is a Jew inwardly. That is, a SPIRITUAL descendant of Abraham by faith. Does it take anything from Israel? NO. The Abrahamic covenant, the Davidic covenant, the promises to the forefathers, the prophecies of the Old Testament related to the Jewish eschatology, etc. are not nullified. The Mosaic covenant IS because it was flawed, and is replaced by the New Covenant. The New Covenant for the believers (Jew and Gentiles) in Christ. Again, it does not nullify any other covenant or promise/prophecy God made regarding Israel. The one thing it did do is take the place of the Mosaic Covenant, which is gone.
SO my issue with Covenant theology and replacement theology is that they throw away the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants, the promises to the forefathers, and prophecies concerning Israel. That is wrong. God did not throw out, break or violate, any covenant He made with Abraham, David, Israel (Mosaic), or any promise made to the forefathers, or any prophecy made regarding Israel. Israel violated the Mosaic covenant, and failed to obey God, but that was all foreordained, that is planned by God, leading up to the coming of Christ, the sacrifice to reconcile the world.
Jews have a special place for God in this Age. The Gentiles have a place solely because of God's grace.
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