Responsibilities to God and His Christ

[jeremiah1five]

True, born-again Biblical Christians take the Scripture as written.

They don't add or subtract from the Bible or make God do and say things He never said. We take Scripture as a literal historical record of God dealing with one man named Abram and making covenant with him as described in Genesis 12, 15, and 17.
We take the Pentateuch as written by Moses as a literal record of God's relationship with Abraham's seed through Isaac and then Jacob and including Jacob's twelve sons and their offspring. This Mosaic Covenant does not include non-Hebrew Gentiles. The high priest under the Law never offered sacrifices for the sins of Gentiles and today, to claim that Gentiles can be and have been saved by the Holy Spirit of Promise (Joel) PROMISED TO ISRAEL is to make Christ and God to change Scripture after the fact of its closing thus destroying the Law which Christ Himself declared He did not come to destroy/change the Scripture and the covenants after they had been closed.
The New Covenant Christ initiated in His blood the night of His death on His last Passover is a covenant between God, the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes) and does NOT include non-Hebrew Gentiles.

So, where is all this talk and posting that Gentiles are the recipient of the benefits of covenant under the Law and are saved? The high priest never offered sacrifices for the sin of Gentiles, nor did he ever sprinkle the blood of the sacrifice upon Gentiles.
But all of a sudden for the past 1,993 years after Christ's ascension there are many who teach Christ changed the Law and added Gentiles to the cross of Christ.
There is NO SCRIPTURE in the Old Testament that says such a thing. It is adding to the Bible that people do and make God and Christ out to be liars.

I take Scripture as written. I do not add to the Bible as many here do.

This is not the behavior of true, born-again Biblical Christians.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18–19.

Many need to study the Old Testament Scripture for then one can rightly interpret the New Covenant writings of Jews and Jewish Christians called the gospels, the epistles, and the Revelation prophecy.

Salvation is OF THE LORD.

and

Salvation is OF THE JEWS.

Nowhere is salvation of the Gentiles.

 

[TibiasDad]

True, born-again Biblical Christians take the Scripture as written.

They don't add or subtract from the Bible or make God do and say things He never said. We take Scripture as a literal historical record of God dealing with one man named Abram and making covenant with him as described in Genesis 12, 15, and 17.
We take the Pentateuch as written by Moses as a literal record of God's relationship with Abraham's seed through Isaac and then Jacob and including Jacob's twelve sons and their offspring. This Mosaic Covenant does not include non-Hebrew Gentiles. The high priest under the Law never offered sacrifices for the sins of Gentiles and today, to claim that Gentiles can be and have been saved by the Holy Spirit of Promise (Joel) PROMISED TO ISRAEL is to make Christ and God to change Scripture after the fact of its closing thus destroying the Law which Christ Himself declared He did not come to destroy/change the Scripture and the covenants after they had been closed.
The New Covenant Christ initiated in His blood the night of His death on His last Passover is a covenant between God, the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes) and does NOT include non-Hebrew Gentiles.

So, where is all this talk and posting that Gentiles are the recipient of the benefits of covenant under the Law and are saved? The high priest never offered sacrifices for the sin of Gentiles, nor did he ever sprinkle the blood of the sacrifice upon Gentiles.
But all of a sudden for the past 1,993 years after Christ's ascension there are many who teach Christ changed the Law and added Gentiles to the cross of Christ.
There is NO SCRIPTURE in the Old Testament that says such a thing. It is adding to the Bible that people do and make God and Christ out to be liars.

I take Scripture as written. I do not add to the Bible as many here do.

This is not the behavior of true, born-again Biblical Christians.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18–19.

Many need to study the Old Testament Scripture for then one can rightly interpret the New Covenant writings of Jews and Jewish Christians called the gospels, the epistles, and the Revelation prophecy.

Salvation is OF THE LORD.

and

Salvation is OF THE JEWS.

Nowhere is salvation of the Gentiles.

You have just thrown out the NT! You have just thrown out the ministry, writings and purpose of the Apostle Paul!

Salvation is of God, meaning God is the source of salvation, or salvation is from God.

Salvation is of the Jews, or namely a Jew, Jesus Christ.

Salvation is for all men, Jews and Gentiles, men and women.



Doug

 

[jeremiah1five]

You have just thrown out the NT!

I have not. But I am curious why you think I did.

You have just thrown out the ministry, writings and purpose of the Apostle Paul!

Nope. Saul was very helpful in providing understanding of the New Covenant era Jeremiah prophesied in 31:31-34.
In Acts 2 Peter addressed the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise (Acts 2:33, 38, 39) PROMISED TO ISRAEL (Joel.) This day began the beginning of the New Covenant and the New Covenant era. The things that was taking place among the Jews was rightly understood by Saul who, as a rabbi and Pharisee, knew the Old Testament and was able to identify the Acts of the Holy Spirit against what was written in the Hebrew Scripture (Old Testament.) The revelations the Lord gave him were the result of studying the OT under the anointing and with God illuminating his mind to OT truths was able to communicate those things to Jews and Jewish Christians at places where they lived through letters (Corinth, Ephesus, Philippi, etc.)

When Saul traveled, he went first to their synagogues and preached Christ - sometimes blue in the face and spitting spit in his arguments with the Jewish brethren (Judaizers.) In time (Acts 6) a "great company of priests were obedient to the faith." But there were Jewish leaders of their respective synagogues whom the Lord did not open their minds because one thing that they had a problem, or stumbling block, with was the testimony of Israel's Savior, Deliverer, Messiah, and King [was] "hanged on a tree" which to them meant He was cursed of God. First, Jewish Christians were excommunicated from the synagogues and then outright persecution arose (Heb. 6) that many Jewish Christians to alleviate their suffering at the hands of their brethren wanted to return to Judaism - Which Hebrews (6:4-6) says was impossible.

After Saul was born again on the road to Damascus, he soon left town, disappeared, for about 14-17 years to study. And through study of the Old Testament under the anointing one can receive revelation from God same as he. Such is the result of anointed study. Anyone can do this through prayer and preparation.

Salvation is of God, meaning God is the source of salvation, or salvation is from God.

Correct-o-mundo.

Salvation is of the Jews, or namely a Jew, Jesus Christ.

Salvation is OF THE JEWS. Under the Law (Ceremonial Law) the children of Israel were commanded by God to sacrifice on Yom Kippur for the temporary, yearly, atonement for their sins. God is the "source of salvation" and the Hebrew people under the Law were the recipients of God's deliverance and salvation.

Salvation is for all men, Jews and Gentiles, men and women.

The Word of God is written on "stone." It is not open to change, either from man or God. Christ said He did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill as God's lamb to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. He substituted for the animal sacrifice which was offered to God for the sins of the children of Israel. There is NO SCRIPTURE that records the high priest leaving Israel's borders, traveling to Gentiles, and offering sacrifices for their sins. Gentiles were OUTSIDE the covenants of God. They had hundreds, even thousands of god's they worshiped.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.

So, as I said in the OP, if there was no atonement offered them by God under the Law of the Mosaic Covenant, and Christ as High Priest did not pray for them (John 17:9), then they were NOT atoned. Besides this remember Gentiles were NEVER under the Law. So, this theology of Gentiles being saved (born-again) had two major roadblocks preventing their salvation. The first is they were never under the Law and the sacrifices offered to God were never offered in the name of Gentiles. Second, the Holy Spirit of Promise prophesied by Joel was a prophecy and promise God made to Israel - NOT Gentiles.

Third, to teach Gentiles can and have been saved by Jesus' sacrifice changes the Law and by changing the Law destroys the Law, which is tantamount to destroying the Holy Spirit who is the Law of God Personified. The Law is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. Any change of the Law would destroy the Law and also the Holy Spirit. But there was NO CHANGE. The problem is Gentiles who interpret the Hebrew Scripture of Matthew to Revelation as a Gentile with a Gentile mindset and not a Hebrew or Jewish mindset which is the correct mind to interpret Scripture. This also makes Jesus Christ a liar and forces Him by such teaching to change the Law - which is impossible - in order to include non-Hebrew Gentiles. Gentiles were never under the Law and Christ came to fulfill the Law as was written and practiced under instruction and command of God.
Christ's death and resurrection under the Law atoned for the sins of the children of Israel who were under the Law. Christ did not die and resurrect to atone for the sins of non-Hebrew Gentiles. And by virtue of being a mixed heritage Jew of Gentile offspring, as long as they are Abraham's seed - no matter the dilution - they are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise (Gal. 3:28-29.) Samaritans - and mixed-race Hebrews are still Abraham's seed and God promised Abraham those things that his covenant provides. After Isaac, Jacob, the twelve sons of Jacob, and their descendants they are STILL Abraham's seed. Samaritans are the Jew-Gentile offspring of the ten northern kingdom tribes (and Ephraim and Manassas) and "Gentiles" in the NT are the Jew-Gentile offspring of the two southern kingdom tribes with ten tribes mixed in who are identified as "Gentile" merely by the fact that for 29-35 generations of Jews being born eventually inter-union with Jew and Gentiles who lived in Gentile lands (from 722 BC to Christ) and were heavily influenced by Greek culture. Without a Temple the Hebrew people "lost" their Hebrew identity but the Lord knows them that are His, and even the Jewish males were not circumcised nor practice the Law of Moses. They "lost" their heritage until God sent disciples and apostles to tell them Jesus Christ had come and that there was good news assigned to His Name.

Doug

New Doug.

 

[TibiasDad]

So, as I said in the OP, if there was no atonement offered them by God under the Law of the Mosaic Covenant,

Exodus 12:48“A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. 49The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

and "Gentiles" in the NT are the Jew-Gentile offspring of the two southern kingdom tribes with ten tribes mixed in who are identified as "Gentile" merely by the fact that for 29-35 generations of Jews being born eventually inter-union with Jew and Gentiles who lived in Gentile lands (from 722 BC to Christ) and were heavily influenced by Greek culture.

Oh my….Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive…if what you say is true, then all of us are a little bit Jewish.

Moreover, if this were true, why would the Jews not accept them as being Jewish in their essence of being?

Paul speaks of being a Jew outwardly, that is by genealogy, and a Jew inwardly, by means of believing the gospel. And in Gal 3:28 Paul speaks of the distinctions of man being erased in Christ, saying, “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

You will note that in Paul’s mind, Jew and Gentiles are as distinct in quality of nature as men and women, slaves and freemen.

Doug

 

[jeremiah1five]

Exodus 12:48“A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. 49The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”


Doug

God makes accommodation for the offspring of Ishmael and Esau, and any other offspring of Abraham with his wife after Sarah died. He married again and like Ishmael and Esau they were circumcised by virtue of being Abraham's offspring NOT born of Isaac, Jacob, Jacob's twelve sons, etc. The bottom line here is that the Abraham Covenant was made between God, Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13), and Abram's Hebrew seed. The Abraham Promises was given to Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's twelve sons and their descendants. God even commanded Abraham circumcise his servants BUT they were NOT in covenant with God because the covenant is specifically identified by God as passing to Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's twelve sons and their descendants. The God of Abraham commanded circumcision of his servants, household, etc., but the covenant passed to Isaac.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. Genesis 17:10.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. Genesis 17:12–13.

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. Genesis 17:19.

Ishmael is the son of Abraham and a 'bondwoman.' He is blessed by virtue of being a son of Abraham, but the covenant shall be with Isaac. God declares this more than a handful of times in Genesis. Because of Abraham's covenant blessings God blessed his seed through Ishmael, but the covenant itself is passed to Isaac, rtc.

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. Genesis 17:20.

BUT

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year
Genesis 17:21.

Circumcision is merely a sign of covenant. But God establishes His covenant with Abraham and his seed and his seed is Isaac, from his own bowels, of his own flesh.

 

[TibiasDad]

God makes accommodation for the offspring of Ishmael and Esau, and any other offspring of Abraham with his wife after Sarah died. He married again and like Ishmael and Esau they were circumcised by virtue of being Abraham's offspring NOT born of Isaac, Jacob, Jacob's twelve sons, etc. The bottom line here is that the Abraham Covenant was made between God, Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13), and Abram's Hebrew seed. The Abraham Promises was given to Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's twelve sons and their descendants. God even commanded Abraham circumcise his servants BUT they were NOT in covenant with God because the covenant is specifically identified by God as passing to Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's twelve sons and their descendants. The God of Abraham commanded circumcision of his servants, household, etc., but the covenant passed to Isaac.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. Genesis 17:10.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. Genesis 17:12–13.

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. Genesis 17:19.

Ishmael is the son of Abraham and a 'bondwoman.' He is blessed by virtue of being a son of Abraham, but the covenant shall be with Isaac. God declares this more than a handful of times in Genesis. Because of Abraham's covenant blessings God blessed his seed through Ishmael, but the covenant itself is passed to Isaac, rtc.

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. Genesis 17:20.

BUT

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year
Genesis 17:21.

Circumcision is merely a sign of covenant. But God establishes His covenant with Abraham and his seed and his seed is Isaac, from his own bowels, of his own flesh.

To partake of the Passover is to be considered truly Jewish. Anyone who was willing to circumcise himself would be included in all the blessings of God to the Jews.

Exodus 12 is not an accommodation for Esau, it is for any non-Jewish person who wants to be included! Gos demonstrates his willingness for “non-Jews” to be included if they comply to circumcision and thereby enter into covenant with God.


Doug

 

[jeremiah1five]

Oh my….Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive…if what you say is true, then all of us are a little bit Jewish.

Now you're thinking. Let's look at history.
Four times God scattered the seed of Abraham among Gentiles.
The first time is the Assyrian Conquest of the ten northern kingdom tribes (722 BC.)
The second time is the Babylonian Conquest of the two southern kingdom tribes (Judah and Benjamin - 586 BC.)
In these two Exiles (Diaspora) a great number of Hebrews were taken captive and exiled among Gentiles for about 29-35 generations. In this time Jews did intermingle with non-Hebrews. Mixed heritage Hebrews were the offspring of Jew-non-Jew unions whether through rape, slavery, or concubinage. In 522 BC a small remnant of Jews returned to Israel while the majority of Jews remained in Gentile lands.
The third was the Roman destruction of their Temple and their land and scattering of Jews out of their land. Romans passed laws forbidding Jews to return to Israel/Jerusalem.
The fourth time was in Europe, specifically in Germany during the 30s and 40s.
Mixed heritage Jews were born throughout the centuries since 722 BC. The three Hebrew covenants are between God, Abraham, Abraham's seed, the children of Israel, and the New Covenant between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Samaritans were the result. And so were the mixed heritage Jews called "Gentile" because they grew up in Gentile land heavily influenced by Greek culture (Hellenized.) These mixed heritage Jews were the subject of the question of their circumcision AFTER they received the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL (Joel.)
Last year I asked who can trace back their ancestry and some went as far back as the American Revolutionary War, and one said, "1500s." I believe God made covenant with Abraham and his seed "of his flesh, of his loins" and with the children of Israel (Mosaic) and the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.)

Holding to the promises of God He made all three covenants with Abraham to begin, and later with the children of Israel in the millions during the Exile up to the day of Jesus' birth. Of course, there will be so-called presumed "Gentiles" who are also descendant of Abraham who would be born and are STILL Abraham's seed no matter the dilution of DNA. If someone who is a presumed Gentile is truly born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL, then there would have to be at least one Hebrew parent in their ancestry.

Moreover, if this were true, why would the Jews not accept them as being Jewish in their essence of being?

The Jews were prejudiced against mixed heritage Jews called "Samaritan" which were of the ten northern kingdom tribes, and also Ephraim and Manassas, sons of Joseph and a Gentile wife (Egyptian.) Even before the Mosaic Covenant there were mixed heritage Jews who were seen as second-class citizens. But where are the mixed heritage Jews of the two southern kingdom tribes who went into exile in 586 BC? They are the "Gentiles" mentioned in the NT for several major reasons. One is that no Jew, priest, rabbi, etc., would ever seek to circumcise a non-Hebrew Gentile or compel them to obedience to the Law of Moses. Why? Because all Jews knew God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and his Hebrew seed. Non-Hebrew Gentiles were the enemy of God and Israel. God doesn't destroy those whom He is said to love - non-Hebrew Gentiles. God according to Zechariah will bring non-Hebrew Gentiles against Israel and Christ wi;ll return in the heat of battle before all is lost and destroy all those Gentile nations God brought against Israel in order to show His glory as God and the God of Abraham.

Paul speaks of being a Jew outwardly, that is by genealogy, and a Jew inwardly, by means of believing the gospel.

A Jew is a Jew inwardly AND outwardly.

And in Gal 3:28 Paul speaks of the distinctions of man being erased in Christ, saying, “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation were written by Jews and Jewish Christians to and for other Jews and Jewish Christians and in the letters by Saul, Peter, James, John, Jude, Mark, Matthew, Luke, etc. are only a discussion of the New Covenant era Israel found itself in on that one Jewish Feast of Harvest around AD 34.
Saul, in Galatians, is writing to Jews NOT GENTILES. He writes about Jews being under the Law, under a schoolmaster. Gentiles were NEVER under the Law. And Saul's words say there is neither Jew NOR GREEK (NOT Gentile.) These are Hellenized Jews who grew up Gentile heavily influenced by Greek culture. Don't change the word in that passage to Gentile because Saul is addressing Hellenized Jews of Gentile ancestry who are STILL heirs to the promises of God.

23 But before faith came, we [JEWS] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:22–24.

The "our" and "us" and "we" refers to Jews.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galatians 3:28–29.

Saul is addressing Jews and mixed heritage Jews. ONLY JEWS were under the Law, under a schoolmaster, NOT Gentiles. It is Jews and mixed heritage Jews who have been born-again that are STILL seed of Abraham and heirs of those promises.

You will note that in Paul’s mind, Jew and Gentiles are as distinct in quality of nature as men and women, slaves and freemen.

Doug

New Doug, the Galatian letter is written to Jews and Jewish Christians. Try reading it that way and come to the knowledge of the TRUTH!