Responsibilities to God and His Christ

[FreeInChrist]

Where in the Old Testament does it say that "that all who believe are the children of Abraham" is referring to Gentiles?
Saul is writing in Romans to Jews at Rome. Just the bringing up of Abraham is proof of this. Gentiles know NOTHING of Abraham. Gentiles are all idol-worshipers and the enemy of God.

As it says above in addressing Jews, "[Abraham] He is the father of us all" and Saul means JEWS!

There is covenant and blessings (Abraham) and there is only blessings (Ishmaels/Esau). Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Jacob's descendants are the people of covenant and blessings. The descendants of Ishmael and Esau are only blessed with NO COVENANT.

Stop adding Gentiles to Israel's inheritance. You are adding to the Bible.

It’s impressive—you managed to refute an argument no one here actually made.

No one said that phrase was referring to Gentiles. That’s entirely your construction.

And the claim that Gentiles “know NOTHING of Abraham” ignores the Old Testament’s constant references to the goyim—the nations in direct contact with Israel. So the concept clearly exists whether the English label “Gentile” appears or not.

You also ignored the passages already provided. At some point that stops looking like oversight and starts looking intentional.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Ishmael had twelve sons. Esau had children also. Then there is Lot and the other nomadic tribes of people in the middle east. Abraham was the father of many nations. Through Ishamel and Esau as well as through Isaac and Jacob and Jacob's twelve sons and their descendants. You had the descendants of Ham and Japheth and you had the descendants of Shem. They were all of Noah, but not all were the children of Eber (Gen. 11) of whom the Chosen people became Chosen to God.
You add to the Bible things it never says.

You add to the bible because there is no such word in the Holy Book so if you are going to thrown stones better start with yourself and stop using words that are not there.

Ishamel also participated in sacrifices. But it is the seed of Isaac and Jacob to whom the inheritance was given.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Did you fail to read? I gave you, many verses. Book, chapter and verse

From the New Testament

Um, in case you forgot, Christ died for all the people of the world.

2 Cor 5:14–15 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
1 Tim 2:3–6 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
Heb 2:9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
John 3:16–17 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
1 Tim 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
If you are depending on animals for your salvation today, you are in a sorrowful position.
Acts 10:34–35Opening his mouth, Peter said: “I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.
Gal 3:28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Rom 10:12–13For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Eph 2:11–22Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
Acts 15:7–11After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”
Rom 3:29–30Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
Col 3:11a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
Acts 11:18When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”
Rom 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

And the Old Testament


Ps 22:27–28 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord, And all the families of the nations will worship before You. For the kingdom is the Lord’s And He rules over the nations.
Ps 86:9 All nations whom You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, And they shall glorify Your name.
Isa 49:6 He says, “It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also make You a light of the nations So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth.”
Isa 2:2–3 Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the Lord Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. And many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths.” For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even to its setting, My name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense is going to be offered to My name, and a grain offering that is pure; for My name will be great among the nations,” says the Lord of hosts.
Isa 66:18–19 “For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory. I will set a sign among them and will send survivors from them to the nations: Tarshish, Put, Lud, Meshech, Tubal and Javan, to the distant coastlands that have neither heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they will declare My glory among the nations.
Dan 7:14 “And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.
Isa 56:7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

Zech 8:20–23 “Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘It will yet be that peoples will come, even the inhabitants of many cities. The inhabitants of one will go to another, saying, “Let us go at once to entreat the favor of the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts; I will also go.” So many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the Lord.’ “Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” ’ ”

Isa 25:6–8 The Lord of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain; A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow, And refined, aged wine. And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples, Even the veil which is stretched over all nations. He will swallow up death for all time, And the Lord God will wipe tears away from all faces, And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth; For the Lord has spoken.

Ps 67 God be gracious to us and bless us, And cause His face to shine upon us— Selah. That Your way may be known on the earth, Your salvation among all nations. Let the peoples praise You, O God; Let all the peoples praise You. Let the nations be glad and sing for joy; For You will judge the peoples with uprightness And guide the nations on the earth. Selah. Let the peoples praise You, O God; Let all the peoples praise You. The earth has yielded its produce; God, our God, blesses us. God blesses us, That all the ends of the earth may fear Him.

Even more, may I post, but sadly, your thinking is severely distorted, ignoring much scripture.

Salvation is through Christ not animals, and through such a belief you lack any salvation.

Everything written in the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation can be found in the Old Testament.
Everything. There is nothing in the New Covenant that is new or even added to without having a promise or prophecy of the shadow of things to come. God promising His Spirit to Israel by the prophet Joel is realized in Acts 2. This is one example in which the Hebrew people can understand the 'type' of any and all 'shadows addressed in the Old Testament. It also keeps the Hebrews from adding to the Bible things God, the prophets, priests' and kings had never spoken of or written in their prophecies. The Law of Moses itself contains shadows that point to the identity and the 'works' of the Messiah when He appears so that the Hebrew people will be able to recognize Him when He does appear.

John called Jesus "the lamb of God" because he understood the shadow identity of the promised Messiah in order to Him out to His people. Not only this, but today we can study the life of Jesus using the background of the Old Testament to understand His Person, His Works and everything else we need in order to understand what His life is all about when looking at Him through the prophecies and promises made by the 'old' prophets and written in the Old Testament text.

The revelations that Saul had concerning the Messiah were understood through the Old Testament which he was taught as rabbi and Pharisee but the difference was, he had the Holy Spirit which gave him the spiritual understanding of the Old Testament which he studied throughout his life. This is why he disappeared for approximately 14-17 years to separate himself in order to study under the anointing in order to write such epistles that explained to the Hebrew people what the Old Testament said and how this man named Jesus fulfilled many prophecies by the prophets who wrote those things down in their "books."

Before any study is attempted of the things of God (Bible) it must first be understood that all things having to do with this "Prophet like unto Moses" are written in the Old Testament in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets, that help the Jews to recognize the day of their visitation by God and God's Son. It was written where He must be born. It is written that He would be "called out of Egypt" and that He would do things that were only assigned to the God of Abraham, such as miracles or healing the people, feeding them, and in the end, die for them.

The problem you have of which you are in error and fail to understand about the Work Jesus came to fulfill under the Law is that you and others add Gentiles to the Law by your beliefs and false theology when there is nothing in the Law that says that Gentiles would be saved along with the Jews of whom God had sent Him to save. He is called "Deliverer" because Israel was told by the prophets that this Messiah and King would deliver the Hebrew people from all their enemies. But what Saul and others who wrote epistles didn't understand until after Jesus resurrected was that He would deliver them from sin and death, and this too is written in the Old Testament. It is found in the Law under the section that teaches "sacrifice" and "atonement" and "salvation" and "propitiation", etc. The Old Testament even reveals that this individual would be born in Bethlehem and that He would be of the seed of Abraham and a descendant of David.

Every doctrine the Church holds today is written of Him in the Old Testament so that when this individual does appear the Old Testament is consulted to assist our understanding His Word as the "lamb of God" His Person that He would also be God's Son and a descendant of David. These things are what helped the Jews to identify the Promised One when He did appear. And when Jesus did appear there had been many who at the time has made claims that they were the Messiah but all these claims fall short because NO ONE EXCEPT JESUS had fulfilled the many prophecies and Promises written of the Promised One in the Old Testament.

The point I am making which you fail to understand that as a sacrifice for the sins of the people - the Jews - this work was written before in the Law in the Ceremonial Law which taught the Hebrew people the purpose of the sacrifices and that the Promised One would fulfill those things written in the Old Testament as "shadows" in order for God's people would be able to recognize Him when He did appear. Jeremiah prophesied the death of babies and the grieving Jewish mothers would experience because Herod the Great had attempted to kill the Christ-child when he ordered all children in Israel born under two years to be killed.

Prophecy Fulfilled:

16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Beth-lehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.
17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
Matthew 2:15–18.

Prophecy Fulfilled:

14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Matthyew 2:14–15.

Prophecy Fulfilled:

23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene. Matthew 2:23.

Prophecy Fulfilled:

1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. Matthew 3:1–4.

Prophecy Fulfilled:

13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. Matthew 4:13–16.

Prophecy Fulfilled:

Everything Jesus taught He taught what was written in the Old Testament. Chapter five of Matthew's gospel quotes Jesus teaching from the Old Testament and there was NOTHING He taught that could not be found in the Old Testament:

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time Matthew 5:21.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time Matthew 5:27.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time Matthew 5:33.

and on and on.

He even taught and directed others to obey the Law of Moses:

43 And he straitly charged him, and forthwith sent him away;
44 And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them. Mark 1:43–44.

Jesus Himself used the Old Testament to overcome His teating:

4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, Luke 4:4.

The Old Testament is full of prophecies and Promises that helped the Jews to recognize and identify the One the Old Testament prophets wrote about:

44 Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
John 1:44–45.

Thus, everyone who claims that non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved according to their erroneous understanding of the New Covenant writings is adding to the Bible because NO ONE CAN PROVIDE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THAT GENTILES WERE TO BE ATONED UNDER THE LAW because there is NOTHING written about this in the Old Testament.

NOTHING!

If it is not chapter and verse, then it is all chatter or worse.

And it IS worse.

YOU add to the Bible a teaching the Old Testament does not speak of in any of the writings of Moses and the Prophets. YOU ADD Gentiles to Israel's inheritance when you hold to the false unproven belief's that Gentiles are also part of the salvation that was spoken of by the prophets of Israel and promised to the people of Israel. Not even can you find any reference anywhere in the Old Testament that Gentiles were a people God was to save.

THERE IS NOTHING!

And this is a fact you throw out then window all the time you try to quote the New Covenant passages to prove Gentiles have Jesus as their Savior when there is NOTHING written by the prophets in their writings. You twist, bend, and BREAK the Scripture through your false doctrine of Gentile salvation.

There is NOTHING in the Old Testament that teaches this.

NOTHING!

 

[TibiasDad]

The ONLY people under the Law were the children of Israel. Gentiles were never under the Law. Christ was Promised to Israel to redeem Israel and only Israel.

Rom 2:12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

Gentiles are defined as those “who do not have the law”, that being the Decalogue, and yet they naturally do the thing written in the law. They naturally know that murder and stealing are wrong.


Doug

 

[FreeInChrist]

Everything written in the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation can be found in the Old Testament.
Everything. There is nothing in the New Covenant that is new or even added to without having a promise or prophecy of the shadow of things to come.

Then you admit that the grafting in of those to the Olive Tree was OT prophesy and those that were grafted were done so to make Israel jealous and those grafted were WAIT FOR IT... .... rOMANS 11:11 SAYS "I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous."

And not to the detriment of the Jews because the Gentiles were grafted to make them jealous... IOW to make them open their eyes to what they were doing....

The Apostle Paul is explaining that despite Israel’s zealous pursuit of righteousness, they did not achieve it because they sought it through works and not through faith in Christ. However, the ‘elect’ among them, those who believed in Jesus as the Messiah and accepted Him, obtained righteousness while the rest were hardened in their unbelief. This concept of a remnant being saved despite the majority’s rejection is not a new idea in the Bible. Throughout the Old Testament, we see examples of a faithful remnant being preserved by God amidst widespread unfaithfulness (e.g., Elijah and the 7,000 who did not bow to Baal in 1 Kings 19:18).

So everyone..... 3 cheers to @jeremiah1five .

He actually has said what we all knew.....Everything written in the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation can be found in the Old Testament.

Only one confusion is.... he has spent months telling us there is NO NEW Covenant..... I'm confused.

 

[TibiasDad]

Only one confusion is.... he has spent months telling us there is NO NEW Covenant..... I'm confused.

Heb 8:7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said :

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

10This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
13By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Doug