Ancient views on the gap theory

TomL

Well-known member

Historical Review​

We will consider a number of early Christians who delved into Daniel.

Julius Africanus wrote about 220 CE and influenced Eusebius and other historians. He believed that all 70 weeks had been fulfilled in Christ’s time.

  1. It is by calculating from Artaxerxes, therefore, up to the time of Christ that the seventy weeks are made up, according to the numeration of the Jews [literal versus prophetic year]. Julius Africanus, XVI, From Fragments of the Chronography as quoted by Schaff http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf06.v.v.xvi.html
Athanasius of Alexandria was opposed Arianism and promoted consubstantiation between God the Father, Son, and Spirit. He wrote around 350 CE. He argued that the full 70 weeks was fulfilled to answer accusations that Messiah was yet to come; some were still looking for Christ.

Perhaps with regard to the other (prophecies) they [those still expecting a future fulfillment of the 70 weeks] may be able even to find excuses and to put off what is written to a future time. But what can they say to this, or can they face it at all? Where [Daniel 9:24] not only is the Christ referred to, but He that is to be anointed is declared to be not man simply, but Holy of Holies; and Jerusalem is to stand till His coming, and thenceforth, prophet and vision cease in Israel. Athanasius, On the Incarnation of the Word, chapter 39 http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204.vii.ii.xxxix.html
Tertullian wrote about 200 CE and is considered the father of Latin Christianity understood the 70 weeks as completely fulfilled by the coming of Christ and destruction of the Temple in 70 CE.

Accordingly the times must be inquired into of the predicted and future nativity of the Christ, and of His passion, and of the extermination of the city of Jerusalem, that is, its devastation. For Daniel says, that “both the holy city and the holy place are exterminated together with the coming Leader, and that the pinnacle is destroyed unto ruin.” Tertullian, An Answer to the Jews, chapter VIII http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.ix.viii.html
There are other early commentators such as Hippolytus, Origen, and others. Basically, regardless of their starting and even ending points, they all understood that the 70-week decree was fulfilled.

Origen circa 220 CE

The weeks of years, also, which the prophet Daniel had predicted, extending to the leadership of Christ, have been fulfilled. https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04/anf04.vi.v.v.i.html
And according to Daniel, seventy weeks were fulfilled until (the coming of) Christ the Ruler. https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04/anf04.vi.v.v.ii.html
Clement of Alexandria wrote circa 200 CE

From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation.”2071 That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras. And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfilment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judæa was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, “the Holy of Holies,” having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those “sixty and two weeks,” as the prophet said, and “in the one week,” was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said. https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02/anf02.vi.iv.i.xxi.html
 

Historical Review​

We will consider a number of early Christians who delved into Daniel.

Julius Africanus wrote about 220 CE and influenced Eusebius and other historians. He believed that all 70 weeks had been fulfilled in Christ’s time.


Athanasius of Alexandria was opposed Arianism and promoted consubstantiation between God the Father, Son, and Spirit. He wrote around 350 CE. He argued that the full 70 weeks was fulfilled to answer accusations that Messiah was yet to come; some were still looking for Christ.


Tertullian wrote about 200 CE and is considered the father of Latin Christianity understood the 70 weeks as completely fulfilled by the coming of Christ and destruction of the Temple in 70 CE.


There are other early commentators such as Hippolytus, Origen, and others. Basically, regardless of their starting and even ending points, they all understood that the 70-week decree was fulfilled.

Origen circa 220 CE



Clement of Alexandria wrote circa 200 CE


Thank you for providing this information.

Just so you know... it provides further corroboration for my point.

Each of these men in history read the Bible for themselves and decided, likely based on their perspectives on the nation of Israel being exiled from the land, and the Roman emperor renaming it Syria Palestina, and Jerusalem to Aelina Capitolina, that God was done with Israel.

Ammillennialism arose from back in history, early on.

So, none of these things surprise me in the least.

As it's clear you're using these to justify your beliefs regarding eschatology, you've verified my opinion on what you base your beliefs on.

So, congratulations!
 
Thank you for providing this information.

Just so you know... it provides further corroboration for my point.

Each of these men in history read the Bible for themselves and decided, likely based on their perspectives on the nation of Israel being exiled from the land, and the Roman emperor renaming it Syria Palestina, and Jerusalem to Aelina Capitolina, that God was done with Israel.

Ammillennialism arose from back in history, early on.

So, none of these things surprise me in the least.

As it's clear you're using these to justify your beliefs regarding eschatology, you've verified my opinion on what you base your beliefs on.

So, congratulations!
What is clear is you are desperately trying to find reason to ignore scripture

The lack of a gap was founded on scripture and has nothing to do with what men had believed regarding a gap in Daniel prophesy

Their opinion does nothing to alter the fact Cyrus was the man chosen by god to decree the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

Nothing to discount the fact Christ was anointed at his baptism.

Nothing to do with the fact his ministry was 3 1/2 years when he was cut off.
 
What is clear is you are desperately trying to find reason to ignore scripture
Nope. I'm actually looking at scripture.
I'm even including the writings of the church fathers, and recognizing that as they're able to come to Jesus and seek understanding, so I'm able to do likewise.
As they identified problems, so I too am able to identify problems.
As Israel was gone in their day, and as it exists today, the prophecies they were not understanding, we have a better awareness of, I'm able to put their ideas together with the ideas we "pre-trib, pre-mill dispensational" types have, and see a more complete, indeed, comprehensive picture of.

as it's written by the sages...

we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us, which allows us to see farther than ever before.

Something that I find myself wondering why you'd rather not stand on the shoulders of

The lack of a gap was founded on scripture and has nothing to do with what men had believed regarding a gap in Daniel prophesy
The lack of gap based on what others are telling you.
Their ideas are old ideas, historically invalidated by the fact that 5 of the things supposed to be accomplished by the END of the 70th seven are still not done.
And the only way to claim they are done is to spiritualize them to the point of meaning absolutely nothing.


Their opinion does nothing to alter the fact Cyrus was the man chosen by god to decree the rebuilding of Jerusalem.
Actually, the scripture itself shows that Cyrus didn't decree the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the streets in troublesome times.
He did in fact decree the rebuilding of the Temple.
Nothing to discount the fact Christ was anointed at his baptism.
Nothing to demonstrate that the anointing of the Holy Spirit is in fact the Anointing of the Most Holy.


Nothing to do with the fact his ministry was 3 1/2 years when he was cut off.
Nothing to do with the fact that 5 of the 6 things that are supposed to be achieved by the end of the 70th seven are in fact not completed.

Dan 9:24 WEB “Seventy weeks are decreed on your people and on your holy city,
to finish disobedience,
to make an end of sins,
to make reconciliation for iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most holy
.

I see that making reconciliation for iniquity is achieved.
Jesus did that on the cross.
You claim that the most Holy has been anointed. I disagree, but ok.... for the moment...

Disobedience is still rampant throughout the world.
So it's not finished.

Sin is not ended.

Everlasting righteousness does not exist on earth.


And while I used to think that Revelation sealed up the vision and the prophecy, other theories exist that says the vision and prophecy will be sealed up by the end of the tribulation period... aka, 70th seven.
 
The lack of gap based on what others are telling you.
Their ideas are old ideas, historically invalidated by the fact that 5 of the things supposed to be accomplished by the END of the 70th seven are still not done.
And the only way to claim they are done is to spiritualize them to the point of meaning absolutely nothing.

Er you mean based on scripturte

You ignored the fact The clock started with Cyrus Isa 44:24-45:13

that jesus was revealed as the anointed

The fact jesus ministry lasted 3 1/2 years and then he was cuttoff

in the middle of the week
Actually, the scripture itself shows that Cyrus didn't decree the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the streets in troublesome times.
He did in fact decree the rebuilding of the Temple.

denial of texts

How many timesust i post this?

Isaiah 44:24–45:13 (ESV) — 24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, 25 who frustrates the signs of liars and makes fools of diviners, who turns wise men back and makes their knowledge foolish, 26 who confirms the word of his servant and fulfills the counsel of his messengers, who says of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be inhabited,’ and of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be built, and I will raise up their ruins’; 27 who says to the deep, ‘Be dry; I will dry up your rivers’; 28 who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and he shall fulfill all my purpose’; saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’ and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’ ” 1 Thus says the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped, to subdue nations before him and to loose the belts of kings, to open doors before him that gates may not be closed: 2 “I will go before you and level the exalted places, I will break in pieces the doors of bronze and cut through the bars of iron, 3 I will give you the treasures of darkness and the hoards in secret places, that you may know that it is I, the LORD, the God of Israel, who call you by your name. 4 For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, 6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other. 7 I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things. 8 “Shower, O heavens, from above, and let the clouds rain down righteousness; let the earth open, that salvation and righteousness may bear fruit; let the earth cause them both to sprout; I the LORD have created it. 9 “Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’ or ‘Your work has no handles’? 10 Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’ or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’ ” 11 Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him: “Ask me of things to come; will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands? 12 I made the earth and created man on it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host. 13 I have stirred him up in righteousness, and I will make all his ways level; he shall build my city and set my exiles free, not for price or reward,” says the LORD of hosts.

Nothing to demonstrate that the anointing of the Holy Spirit is in fact the Anointing of the Most Holy.



Nothing to do with the fact that 5 of the 6 things that are supposed to be achieved by the end of the 70th seven are in fact not completed.

Dan 9:24 WEB “Seventy weeks are decreed on your people and on your holy city,
to finish disobedience,
to make an end of sins,
to make reconciliation for iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most holy
.

there you go asuming again

To finish the transgression. The “transgression” of Israel had long been the burden of the messagesof God’s prophets. It was for their “transgression” that they had been sent into captivity, and that theirland and city had been made a “desolation” for seventy years.Daniel himself had confessed this, saying, “Yea, all Israel have transgressed Thy law. even by departingthat they might not obey Thy voice. Therefore the curse is poured upon us” (verse 11). But the angel revealed to him the distressing news that the full measure of Israel’s “transgression” was yet to be completed; that the children were yet to fill up the iniquity of their fathers; and that, as a consequence, Godwould bring upon them a far greater “desolation” than that which had been wrought by Nebuchadnezzar. For “to finish the transgression” could mean nothing less or other than the betrayal and crucifixionof their promised and expected Messiah.We would call particular attention at this point to the words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the leaders of the14people shortly before His betrayal; for there is in them a striking similarity to the words of the prophecyof Gabriel. He said: “Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers…that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth” (Matthew 23:32). In these words of Christ we find first, a declarationthat the hour had come for them “to finish the transgression”; and second, a strong intimation that thepredicted desolations were to come, as a judgment, upon that generation, as appears by the words “thatupon you may come.”Our Lord’s concluding words at that time have great significance when considered in the light of thisprophecy. He said, “Verily I say unto you, all these things shall come upon this generation”; and then, asthe awful doom of the beloved city pressed upon His heart, He burst into the lamentation, “O Jerusalem,Jerusalem,” ending with the significant words, “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

To make an end of sins. On this item we need not dwell at length; for we have already called attentionto the marvellous workings of God’s wisdom in causing that the extreme sin of man should serve to accomplish eternal redemption, and so provide a complete remedy for sin for the crucifixion of Christ,though it was truly a deed of diabolical wickedness on the part of man, was on His own part the offering ofHimself without spot to God as a sacrifice for sins (Hebrews 9:14). It was thus that He “offered the oneSacrifice for sins forever” (Hebrews 10:12).We understand that the sense in which the death of Christ made “an end of sins” was that thereby Hemade a perfect atonement for sins, as written in Hebrews 1:3, “when He had by Himself purged oursins’” and in many like passages. It is to be noted however, that the Hebrew word for “sins” in this passage means not only the sin itself, but also the sacrifice therefore. Hence it is thought by some that whatthe angel here foretold was the making an end of the sin offering required by the law. That was, indeed,an incidental result, and it is mentioned expressly in verse 27. But the word used in that verse is not theword found in verse 24, which means sin or sin offering It is a different word, meaning sacrifice. We conclude, therefore, that the words, “to make an end of sins”, should be taken in their most obvious sense

o make reconciliation for iniquity. The word here translated “reconciliation” is usually rendered“atone”, but according to Strong’s Concordance it expresses also the thought of appeasing or reconciling.We shall, therefore, assume that our translators had good reason for using the word “reconciliation.” If,however, it be taken that “atonement” is the better rendering, the conclusion would not be affected; forboth atonement and reconciliation were made by the death of Christ upon the cross.15The need of reconciliation arises from the fact that man is by nature not only a sinner, but also an enemyof God (Romans 5:8, 10). Moreover, it is because he is a sinner that he is also an enemy. As a sinner heneeds to be justified; and as an enemy he needs to be reconciled. The death of Christ as an atoning sacrifice accomplishes both in the case of all who believe in Him. In Romans 5:8–10 these two distinct, butclosely related, things are clearly set forth. For we there read, first, that “while we were yet sinnersChrist died for us”, and second, that “when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death ofHis Son”.Reconciliation has to do directly with the kingdom of God, in that it signifies the bringing back of thosewho were rebels and enemies into willing and loyal submission to God. In this connection attentionshould be given to the great passage in Colossians 1:12–22, which shows that, as the result of the death ofChrist, those who have “redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins” (verse 14), are also translated into the kingdom of God’s dear Son (verse 13), Christ “having made peace for them through theblood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself”; and the apostle adds, “And you, who weresometime alienated and enemies in your mind, yet now hath He reconciled in the body of His flesh,through death” (verses 20–22).It is certain, therefore, that, when Christ Jesus died and rose again, atonement for sin and reconciliationfor the enemies of God were fully and finally accomplished as a matter of historic fact. It is important, andindeed essential, to a right interpretation of this prophecy, to keep in mind that atonement and reconciliation were to be accomplished, and actually were accomplished, within the measure of seventy weeksfrom the going forth of the decree of King Cyrus.It is thus seen that the prophecy has to do with the great and eternal purpose of God to establish Hiskingdom — and to bring pardoned and reconciled sinners into it as willing and loyal subjects of Christ,the King. And when the time drew near the kingdom was proclaimed by the Lord and by His forerunneras “at hand.” The Lord’s own words, when taken in connection with the prophecy of Gabriel, are very significant. He said: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mark 1:15). The timewhereof He spoke was that declared in this great prophecy; which is the only prophecy which gives thetime of His coming. Hence His words were really the announcement of His approaching death, resurrection and enthronement in heaven, as the heavenly King of God’s heavenly kingdom.

To bring in everlasting righteousness. Righteousness is the most prominent feature of the kingdomof God. To show this we need only cite those familiar passages: “Seek ye first the kingdom of God and Hisrighteousness” (Matthew 6:33); “the kingdom of God is righteousness and peace, and joy in the HolyGhost” (Romans 14:17). One characteristic of God’s righteousness, which He was “to bring in” throughthe sacrifice of Christ ((Romans 3:21–26), is that it endures forever; and this is what is emphasized in theprophecy. A work was to be done, and now has been done, which would bring in everlasting righteousness— everlasting because based upon the Cross, as foretold also through Isaiah, “My righteousness shall beforever” (Isaiah 51:8). Jesus Christ has now been made unto US “righteous” (1 Corinthians 1:30); andthis is in fulfillment of another great promise: “behold the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raiseUnto David a righteous Branch, and a King reign and prosper And this is His Name whereby He shall becalled JEHOVAH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Jeremiah 23:5–6).

To seal up vision and prophecy. This we take to mean the sealing up of God’s word of prophecy to theIsraelites, as part of the punishment they brought upon themselves. The word “seal up” sometimesmeans, in a secondary sense, to make secure, since what is tightly sealed up is made safe against beingtampered with. Hence some have understood by this item merely that vision and prophecy were to be fulfilled. But we are not aware that the word “sealed up” is used in that sense in the Scriptures. For whenthe fulfillment of prophecy is meant, the word “to fulfill” is used. We think the word should be taken herein its primary meaning; for it was distinctly foretold, as a prominent feature of Israel’s punishment thatboth vision and prophet — i.e., both eye and ear — were to be closed up, so that seeing they would see not,and hearing they would hear not (Isaiah 6:10).Moreover, this very sealing up of vision and prophecy as a part of the chastening of Israel was foretold byIsaiah in that great passage where he speaks of Christ as the Foundation Stone (Isaiah 28:16). Followingthis is a prediction of “woe” to the city where David dwelt (29:1). So we have here a prophecy which is parallel to that of Gabriel. The latter spoke of the cutting off of Messiah to be followed by the destruction ofJerusalem; and Isaiah also spoke of Christ as God’s Foundation Stone, laid in Zion (resurrection) and16then of the overthrow of the earthly Zion. As to this overthrow God speaks through Isaiah very definitelysaying, “And I will camp against thee round about and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and raisea fort against thee, and thou shalt be brought down” (Isaiah 29:1–4). Then the prophet speaks of a coming storm and tempest and devouring fire and also of the multitude of the nations that were to fightagainst the city (verses 6–9). And then come these significant words: “For the Lord God hath poured outupon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes, the prophets’ and your rulers, the seers, hathHe covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed” (verses 10–11).This manifestly corresponds with Gabriel’s words “to seal up vision and prophet.” Moreover, the word“sealed,” in Isaiah 29:11, is the same as in Daniel 9:24. These words of Isaiah also give a remarkably accurate description of the spiritual blindness of the people and their rulers in Christ’s day, who, though theyread the prophets every Sabbath day, yet because they knew not their voices, fulfilled them in condemning Him (Acts 13:27).The fulfillment of Isaiah 6 also comes in here. For the Lord Himself declared that, in His day, was fulfilledthe word “Go and tell this people, Hear ye indeed but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with theireyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed” (Isaiah6:9–10; Matthew 13:14–15). John also quotes this prophecy and applies it to the Jews of his day (John12:39–41); and Paul does the same (Acts 28:25–27).Hence we should note with deep interest the question which this sentence of judgment prompted Isaiahto ask, and the answer he received. Evidently the prophet understood that the judgment pronounced inthe words quoted above was to be one of terrible severity, for he at once inquired anxiously, “How long”the period of judicial blindness was to last. The answer was, “Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, and the Lord have removed men faraway, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land” (Isaiah 6:11–12).Here we have a clear prediction of that which Christ Himself prophesied when the desolation of Judea,and the scattering of the Jews among all nations (Luke 21:24)


I see that making reconciliation for iniquity is achieved.
Jesus did that on the cross.
You claim that the most Holy has been anointed. I disagree, but ok.... for the moment...

Except you have it happening outsode of the 70 weeks

Tilt

BTW Christ is the most holy He was anointed and there are other view which also note a fulfillment.
 
Er you mean based on scripturte
I have no idea what a "scripturte"
Is, so, no. I don't mean based on "scripturte."
I mean what I said.
If you don't actually want to understand what I'm saying, then why are you still talking?
You ignored the fact The clock started with Cyrus Isa 44:24-45:13
Yeah, the problem you're having here is that you have chosen to ignore what Ezra quoted Cyrus actually saying.
As such, your problem is with Ezra, Cyrus and YHVH.

that jesus was revealed as the anointed
He was revealed as the Anointed One. Just not WHEN you want.


The fact jesus ministry lasted 3 1/2 years and then he was cuttoff
I'm not seeing anything that says he was ministering for that long.

in the middle of the week
Your week.
There's an entire community of Jesus followers who reject your ideas.

denial of texts
Yep. You're clearly doing a seriously twisted job of denying texts.
How many timesust i post this
Apparently you're not actually paying attention to what I've been explaining.

Isaiah 44:24–45:13 (ESV) — 24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, 25 who frustrates the signs of liars and makes fools of diviners, who turns wise men back and makes their knowledge foolish,

You're killing yourself here Tom.
frustrates the signs of liars and makes fools of diviners, who turns wise men back and makes their knowledge foolish,

26 who confirms the word of his servant and fulfills the counsel of his messengers, who says of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be inhabited,’ and of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be built, and I will raise up their ruins’;
Yep
27 who says to the deep, ‘Be dry; I will dry up your rivers’;
Yep
28 who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and he shall fulfill all my purpose’; saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’ and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’
Ironically, Cyrus never rebuilt Jerusalem.
He decreed that the temple be rebuilt.

1 Thus says the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped, to subdue nations before him and to loose the belts of kings, to open doors before him that gates may not be closed: 2 “I will go before you and level the exalted places, I will break in pieces the doors of bronze and cut through the bars of iron, 3 I will give you the treasures of darkness and the hoards in secret places, that you may know that it is I, the LORD, the God of Israel, who call you by your name. 4 For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, 6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other. 7 I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things. 8 “Shower, O heavens, from above, and let the clouds rain down righteousness; let the earth open, that salvation and righteousness may bear fruit; let the earth cause them both to sprout; I the LORD have created it. 9 “Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’ or ‘Your work has no handles’? 10 Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’ or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’ ” 11 Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him: “Ask me of things to come; will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands? 12 I made the earth and created man on it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host.
none of this is in question
13 I have stirred him up in righteousness, and I will make all his ways level; he shall build my city and set my exiles free, not for price or reward,” says the LORD of hosts.
yet, we read in Ezra 1 that Cyrus didn't decree the rebuilding of Jerusalem.
he decreed the rebuilding of the Temple.

So, who do you think I'm going to believe here?
you?
why? Because you were there? You actually talked to Cyrus about it, but nobody actually documented it?

there you go asuming again
why, because I actually quoted the Bible?
look Tom, if you're going to continue running around in circles, i have no problem whatsoever with leaving you alone with your devices.
I've repeatedly explained this to you.

You're not saving me. You're not convincing me that you actually know the truth. The only thing I'm seeing is a man desperately trying to force someone to agree with you, regardless of the truth.

To finish the transgression. The “transgression” of Israel had long been the burden of the messagesof God’s prophets. It was for their “transgression” that they had been sent into captivity, and that theirland and city had been made a “desolation” for seventy years.Daniel himself had confessed this, saying, “Yea, all Israel have transgressed Thy law. even by departingthat they might not obey Thy voice. Therefore the curse is poured upon us” (verse 11). But the angel revealed to him the distressing news that the full measure of Israel’s “transgression” was yet to be completed; that the children were yet to fill up the iniquity of their fathers; and that, as a consequence, Godwould bring upon them a far greater “desolation” than that which had been wrought by Nebuchadnezzar. For “to finish the transgression” could mean nothing less or other than the betrayal and crucifixionof their promised and expected Messiah.We would call particular attention at this point to the words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the leaders of the14people shortly before His betrayal; for there is in them a striking similarity to the words of the prophecyof Gabriel. He said: “Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers…that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth” (Matthew 23:32). In these words of Christ we find first, a declarationthat the hour had come for them “to finish the transgression”; and second, a strong intimation that thepredicted desolations were to come, as a judgment, upon that generation, as appears by the words “thatupon you may come.”Our Lord’s concluding words at that time have great significance when considered in the light of thisprophecy. He said, “Verily I say unto you, all these things shall come upon this generation”; and then, asthe awful doom of the beloved city pressed upon His heart, He burst into the lamentation, “O Jerusalem,Jerusalem,” ending with the significant words, “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

To make an end of sins. On this item we need not dwell at length; for we have already called attentionto the marvellous workings of God’s wisdom in causing that the extreme sin of man should serve to accomplish eternal redemption, and so provide a complete remedy for sin for the crucifixion of Christ,though it was truly a deed of diabolical wickedness on the part of man, was on His own part the offering ofHimself without spot to God as a sacrifice for sins (Hebrews 9:14). It was thus that He “offered the oneSacrifice for sins forever” (Hebrews 10:12).We understand that the sense in which the death of Christ made “an end of sins” was that thereby Hemade a perfect atonement for sins, as written in Hebrews 1:3, “when He had by Himself purged oursins’” and in many like passages. It is to be noted however, that the Hebrew word for “sins” in this passage means not only the sin itself, but also the sacrifice therefore. Hence it is thought by some that whatthe angel here foretold was the making an end of the sin offering required by the law. That was, indeed,an incidental result, and it is mentioned expressly in verse 27. But the word used in that verse is not theword found in verse 24, which means sin or sin offering It is a different word, meaning sacrifice. We conclude, therefore, that the words, “to make an end of sins”, should be taken in their most obvious sense

o make reconciliation for iniquity. The word here translated “reconciliation” is usually rendered“atone”, but according to Strong’s Concordance it expresses also the thought of appeasing or reconciling.We shall, therefore, assume that our translators had good reason for using the word “reconciliation.” If,however, it be taken that “atonement” is the better rendering, the conclusion would not be affected; forboth atonement and reconciliation were made by the death of Christ upon the cross.15The need of reconciliation arises from the fact that man is by nature not only a sinner, but also an enemyof God (Romans 5:8, 10). Moreover, it is because he is a sinner that he is also an enemy. As a sinner heneeds to be justified; and as an enemy he needs to be reconciled. The death of Christ as an atoning sacrifice accomplishes both in the case of all who believe in Him. In Romans 5:8–10 these two distinct, butclosely related, things are clearly set forth. For we there read, first, that “while we were yet sinnersChrist died for us”, and second, that “when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death ofHis Son”.Reconciliation has to do directly with the kingdom of God, in that it signifies the bringing back of thosewho were rebels and enemies into willing and loyal submission to God. In this connection attentionshould be given to the great passage in Colossians 1:12–22, which shows that, as the result of the death ofChrist, those who have “redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins” (verse 14), are also translated into the kingdom of God’s dear Son (verse 13), Christ “having made peace for them through theblood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself”; and the apostle adds, “And you, who weresometime alienated and enemies in your mind, yet now hath He reconciled in the body of His flesh,through death” (verses 20–22).It is certain, therefore, that, when Christ Jesus died and rose again, atonement for sin and reconciliationfor the enemies of God were fully and finally accomplished as a matter of historic fact. It is important, andindeed essential, to a right interpretation of this prophecy, to keep in mind that atonement and reconciliation were to be accomplished, and actually were accomplished, within the measure of seventy weeksfrom the going forth of the decree of King Cyrus.It is thus seen that the prophecy has to do with the great and eternal purpose of God to establish Hiskingdom — and to bring pardoned and reconciled sinners into it as willing and loyal subjects of Christ,the King. And when the time drew near the kingdom was proclaimed by the Lord and by His forerunneras “at hand.” The Lord’s own words, when taken in connection with the prophecy of Gabriel, are very significant. He said: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mark 1:15). The timewhereof He spoke was that declared in this great prophecy; which is the only prophecy which gives thetime of His coming. Hence His words were really the announcement of His approaching death, resurrection and enthronement in heaven, as the heavenly King of God’s heavenly kingdom.

To bring in everlasting righteousness. Righteousness is the most prominent feature of the kingdomof God. To show this we need only cite those familiar passages: “Seek ye first the kingdom of God and Hisrighteousness” (Matthew 6:33); “the kingdom of God is righteousness and peace, and joy in the HolyGhost” (Romans 14:17). One characteristic of God’s righteousness, which He was “to bring in” throughthe sacrifice of Christ ((Romans 3:21–26), is that it endures forever; and this is what is emphasized in theprophecy. A work was to be done, and now has been done, which would bring in everlasting righteousness— everlasting because based upon the Cross, as foretold also through Isaiah, “My righteousness shall beforever” (Isaiah 51:8). Jesus Christ has now been made unto US “righteous” (1 Corinthians 1:30); andthis is in fulfillment of another great promise: “behold the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raiseUnto David a righteous Branch, and a King reign and prosper And this is His Name whereby He shall becalled JEHOVAH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Jeremiah 23:5–6).

To seal up vision and prophecy. This we take to mean the sealing up of God’s word of prophecy to theIsraelites, as part of the punishment they brought upon themselves. The word “seal up” sometimesmeans, in a secondary sense, to make secure, since what is tightly sealed up is made safe against beingtampered with. Hence some have understood by this item merely that vision and prophecy were to be fulfilled. But we are not aware that the word “sealed up” is used in that sense in the Scriptures. For whenthe fulfillment of prophecy is meant, the word “to fulfill” is used. We think the word should be taken herein its primary meaning; for it was distinctly foretold, as a prominent feature of Israel’s punishment thatboth vision and prophet — i.e., both eye and ear — were to be closed up, so that seeing they would see not,and hearing they would hear not (Isaiah 6:10).Moreover, this very sealing up of vision and prophecy as a part of the chastening of Israel was foretold byIsaiah in that great passage where he speaks of Christ as the Foundation Stone (Isaiah 28:16). Followingthis is a prediction of “woe” to the city where David dwelt (29:1). So we have here a prophecy which is parallel to that of Gabriel. The latter spoke of the cutting off of Messiah to be followed by the destruction ofJerusalem; and Isaiah also spoke of Christ as God’s Foundation Stone, laid in Zion (resurrection) and16then of the overthrow of the earthly Zion. As to this overthrow God speaks through Isaiah very definitelysaying, “And I will camp against thee round about and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and raisea fort against thee, and thou shalt be brought down” (Isaiah 29:1–4). Then the prophet speaks of a coming storm and tempest and devouring fire and also of the multitude of the nations that were to fightagainst the city (verses 6–9). And then come these significant words: “For the Lord God hath poured outupon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes, the prophets’ and your rulers, the seers, hathHe covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed” (verses 10–11).This manifestly corresponds with Gabriel’s words “to seal up vision and prophet.” Moreover, the word“sealed,” in Isaiah 29:11, is the same as in Daniel 9:24. These words of Isaiah also give a remarkably accurate description of the spiritual blindness of the people and their rulers in Christ’s day, who, though theyread the prophets every Sabbath day, yet because they knew not their voices, fulfilled them in condemning Him (Acts 13:27).The fulfillment of Isaiah 6 also comes in here. For the Lord Himself declared that, in His day, was fulfilledthe word “Go and tell this people, Hear ye indeed but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with theireyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed” (Isaiah6:9–10; Matthew 13:14–15). John also quotes this prophecy and applies it to the Jews of his day (John12:39–41); and Paul does the same (Acts 28:25–27).Hence we should note with deep interest the question which this sentence of judgment prompted Isaiahto ask, and the answer he received. Evidently the prophet understood that the judgment pronounced inthe words quoted above was to be one of terrible severity, for he at once inquired anxiously, “How long”the period of judicial blindness was to last. The answer was, “Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, and the Lord have removed men faraway, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land” (Isaiah 6:11–12).Here we have a clear prediction of that which Christ Himself prophesied when the desolation of Judea,and the scattering of the Jews among all nations (Luke 21:24)
I'm curious where you copied this from.
It's so full of a rather curious mixture of scripture and opinions as to be indiscernably overwhelming to work through.


Except you have it happening outsode of the 70 weeks
Actually, Jesus entered the City on the last day of the 69th seven and was crucified AFTER the 69th seven.
Curious thing is... Daniel was actually told-- after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off but not for Himself...

Your previous claim was that the 70th seven didn't start until Pentecost and lasted until Saul became Paul.

So, if we follow YOUR LOGIC... Jesus was crucified outside the 70 weeks.



so, you've gone full tilt now, and lack the faculty to maintain your reasoning?
BTW Christ is the most holy He was anointed and there are other view which also note a fulfillment.
I never said he's not the most holy. I said he wasn't Anointed as the most holy yet.

How are you doing on dealing with the other items?

Disobedience still exists.
Everlasting righteousness doesn't exist yet either.

So, you keep working on this.

I'll stick with the obvious...

The 70th seven hasn't taken place yet.
 
I have no idea what a "scripturte"
Is, so, no. I don't mean based on "scripturte."
I mean what I said.
If you don't actually want to understand what I'm saying, then why are you still talking?

Yeah, the problem you're having here is that you have chosen to ignore what Ezra quoted Cyrus actually saying.
As such, your problem is with Ezra, Cyrus and YHVH.


He was revealed as the Anointed One. Just not WHEN you want.



I'm not seeing anything that says he was ministering for that long.


Your week.
There's an entire community of Jesus followers who reject your ideas.


Yep. You're clearly doing a seriously twisted job of denying texts.

Apparently you're not actually paying attention to what I've been explaining.



You're killing yourself here Tom.
frustrates the signs of liars and makes fools of diviners, who turns wise men back and makes their knowledge foolish,


Yep

Yep

Ironically, Cyrus never rebuilt Jerusalem.
He decreed that the temple be rebuilt.


none of this is in question

yet, we read in Ezra 1 that Cyrus didn't decree the rebuilding of Jerusalem.
he decreed the rebuilding of the Temple.

So, who do you think I'm going to believe here?
you?
why? Because you were there? You actually talked to Cyrus about it, but nobody actually documented it?


why, because I actually quoted the Bible?
look Tom, if you're going to continue running around in circles, i have no problem whatsoever with leaving you alone with your devices.
I've repeatedly explained this to you.

You're not saving me. You're not convincing me that you actually know the truth. The only thing I'm seeing is a man desperately trying to force someone to agree with you, regardless of the truth.


I'm curious where you copied this from.
It's so full of a rather curious mixture of scripture and opinions as to be indiscernably overwhelming to work through.



Actually, Jesus entered the City on the last day of the 69th seven and was crucified AFTER the 69th seven.
Curious thing is... Daniel was actually told-- after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off but not for Himself...

Your previous claim was that the 70th seven didn't start until Pentecost and lasted until Saul became Paul.

So, if we follow YOUR LOGIC... Jesus was crucified outside the 70 weeks.




so, you've gone full tilt now, and lack the faculty to maintain your reasoning?

I never said he's not the most holy. I said he wasn't Anointed as the most holy yet.

How are you doing on dealing with the other items?

Disobedience still exists.
Everlasting righteousness doesn't exist yet either.

So, you keep working on this.

I'll stick with the obvious...

The 70th seven hasn't taken place yet.
Its hardly obvious

Setting aside the details surrounding the crucifixion of the christ - the greatest act of sacrifice and love the world has ever seen and inserting a gap 4 times longer than the 490 years given to concentrate and speculate on some future antichrist is hardly obvious

Of all the absurd way of handling time texts that surely tales the cake and is without precedent in the pages of scripture

time
 
Its hardly obvious
It's been obvious to me and the people I associate with for several decades now.
So, if it's not to you, I'd say that you should dial your rhetoric back, and start listening.

Setting aside the details surrounding the crucifixion of the christ - the greatest act of sacrifice and love the world has ever seen and inserting a gap 4 times longer than the 490 years given to concentrate and speculate on some future antichrist is hardly obvious
Again...
It's been obvious to me and the people I associate with for several decades now.
So, if it's not to you, I'd say that you should dial your rhetoric back, and start listening.

Of all the absurd way of handling time texts that surely tales the cake and is without precedent in the pages of scripture
Well, you're the one who is claiming that what's been obvious the a large number of Jesus followers for several decades isn't obvious to you.
So, instead of trying to win an argument you've previously lost, try listening.

Are you saying you need a time out?
 
It's been obvious to me and the people I associate with for several decades now.
So, if it's not to you, I'd say that you should dial your rhetoric back, and start listening.
Only if you begin with an assumption of dispensationalism
Again...
It's been obvious to me and the people I associate with for several decades now.
So, if it's not to you, I'd say that you should dial your rhetoric back, and start listening.
Which is but a blip in history and cannot survive an appeal to New Testament texts dealing with the time of the rapture, the resurrection, universal judgment and the inauguration of the new heaven and earth occurring at Christ's second advent

PS can you point to a precedence in scripture where we have a gap in a time text
 
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Only if you begin with an assumption of dispensationalism
And what happens when we read the Bible for the purpose of understanding and learning to be obedient to follow Jesus and we discover that there are epochs/eras where God works through the lives of certain people to achieve the purpose he said he would?

Which is but a blip in history and cannot survive an appeal to New Testament texts dealing with the time of the rapture, the resurrection, universal judgment and the inauguration of the new heaven and earth occurring at Christ's second advent
so, you're not actually interested in a single prophecy which occurs in the blip of history but whose words impact the whole of human civilization?
Wow. How convenient for you.
PS can you point to a precedence in scripture where we have a gap in a time text
I already have.
You however previously decided that you don't actually want to listen or understand.
So, why don't you just go back and reread my posts.
 
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And what happens when we read the Bible for the purpose of understanding and learning to be obedient to follow Jesus and we discover that there are epochs/eras where God works through the lives of certain people to achieve the purpose he said he would?


so, you're not actually interested in a single prophecy which occurs in the blip of history but whose words impact the whole of human civilization?
Wow. How convenient for you.

I already have.
You however previously decided that you don't actually want to listen or understand.
So, why don't you just go back and reread my posts.
Who stated I was not interested, and it is not the prophecy but the interpretation of the prophecy being addressed

Which once again cannot be supported by a plain reading of New Testament texts regarding the rapture, the resurrection, universal judgment, of the new heavens and the new earth at Christs second coming.

If you think otherwise ops are on the forum

PS Where have you shown another example of a gap in a time text?
 
It's been obvious to me and the people I associate with for several decades now.
So, if it's not to you, I'd say that you should dial your rhetoric back, and start listening.


Again...
It's been obvious to me and the people I associate with for several decades now.
So, if it's not to you, I'd say that you should dial your rhetoric back, and start listening.


Well, you're the one who is claiming that what's been obvious the a large number of Jesus followers for several decades isn't obvious to you.
So, instead of trying to win an argument you've previously lost, try listening.


Are you saying you need a time out?
Only if you start with a need to support an assumed eschatology.

Which again has just been a blip in the history of doctrine.

It is without precedent in time texts and inconsistent with plain New Testament texts.
 
Who stated I was not interested,
your actions.
your ongoing argumentation that you're right, and anyone who doesn't agree with what you think is wrong.

and it is not the prophecy but the interpretation of the prophecy being addressed
Bingo!
Why is the interpretation of your favored characters more accurate than the historically more recent interpretation of what you derogatorily refer to as dispensationalism?

In reading the bible for contextuality, learning and understanding, it's not difficult to see that God worked differently in the lives of Adam and Eve, Enoch, Noah, his sons, Abraham, and his family, Moses, etc... down through history to Pentecost.




Which once again cannot be supported by a plain reading of New Testament texts regarding the rapture, the resurrection, universal judgment, of the new heavens and the new earth at Christs second coming.
we cannot however create an entire account to gain an accurate understanding by focusing narrowly on such things.
we need to learn the entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation.

This is what I've been learning to do.
While I've read through the Bible several times over the years, I'm reading each book repeatedly, before moving to the next. I just began Job this past week.
i started in the autumn of 2020, read Revelation and began with Genesis through to Esther, six times.
I just read over and over and, then move to the next book.
There's an entire coherence of thought contained in the Bible of God's plan for the human race.


If you think otherwise ops are on the forum
Your interpretation...
Your interpretation based on the interpretation of others.
Sounds like you're claiming that your copy of the copy is more reliable than the original.

PS Where have you shown another example of a gap in a time text?
Go back through my posts. Everything I've stated is all contained in my posts
 
Only if you start with a need to support an assumed eschatology.
It's ironic how this works.
To me, your eschatological view is the assumed eschatology.
So, this goes back to your interpretation statement from above.

and it is not the prophecy but the interpretation of the prophecy being addressed

Which again has just been a blip in the history of doctrine.
and the revelation of the prophecy itself occurred in the blip in the history of doctrine.
Your interpretation of the interpretation, being akin to a copy of a copy, you're claiming is better than the original.

It is without precedent in time texts and inconsistent with plain New Testament texts.
You assume.
You interpret.
You copy the copies.
 
It's ironic how this works.
To me, your eschatological view is the assumed eschatology.
So, this goes back to your interpretation statement from above.

That is funny seeing as for 1800 years no one ever imagined a gap
and it is not the prophecy but the interpretation of the prophecy being addressed


and the revelation of the prophecy itself occurred in the blip in the history of doctrine.
Your interpretation of the interpretation, being akin to a copy of a copy, you're claiming is better than the original.
That makes no sense at all

There is no interpretation of the interpretation


You assume.
You interpret.
You copy the copies.
Again normal reading is without a gap. Time text become meaningless when you insert a gap 4 times longer than the time period

It is even worse when you skip the the greatest event in all of history to speculate on some unknown character coming at some unknown time
 
your actions.
your ongoing argumentation that you're right, and anyone who doesn't agree with what you think is wrong.

Funny is that not what you are doing

The difference I can get my view Fromm scripture and you have to set aside scripture to get your view
Bingo!
Why is the interpretation of your favored characters more accurate than the historically more recent interpretation of what you derogatorily refer to as dispensationalism?
Duh what is wrong with calling an eschatological system by its name

what makes that derogatory?



In reading the bible for contextuality, learning and understanding, it's not difficult to see that God worked differently in the lives of Adam and Eve, Enoch, Noah, his sons, Abraham, and his family, Moses, etc... down through history to Pentecost.

totally unrelated to the topic at hand
we cannot however create an entire account to gain an accurate understanding by focusing narrowly on such things.
we need to learn the entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation.

you can't do that if you are going to ignore large portions of scripture

Rapture, Resurrection, universal judgment, the assignment of eternal destinies and the new heaven and the new earth coincide with the second coming of Christ.
 
That is funny seeing as for 1800 years no one ever imagined a gap
And?
The nation of Israel didn't exist until 1948 either.
The Jewish people were all but assimilated into their various global cultures too. Exactly as YHVH said they'd be.

Nobody ever imagined me until 1959.
That's at least 5940 years without any thought of my existence.
So why is this a problem, but the lack of forethought by anyone else before the past 120 years is just fine?
That makes no sense at all
what are you not understanding?
There is no interpretation of the interpretation
Yeah there is.
You are interpreting the previous interpretation given by the people you're using to formulate, and justify your beliefs about the prophecy.

I'm curious.
Do you use the works/writings of men to interpret the gospel and new birth for you too?

Again normal reading is without a gap.
and if we were in the millennium, or the post New heaven and earth eternity, I'd be willing to agree with you. As a matter of fact, according to your interpretation, neither of us should be alive. We should be at least a 1000 years into eternity by now.

But we're not. and we are both alive. As are the other 8 billion people who have been alive for the past 110 years.


we're ~1980 years after when you said the 70th seven was fulfilled.
and iniquity still abounds. Disobedience is rampant.
evil thrives.
civilization is dismantling itself by evil people who are bent on forcing tyranny on the human race.
so... yeah. An interpretation of an interpretation.

history clearly demonstrates a gap.


Time text become meaningless when you insert a gap 4 times longer than the time period
nope. Well... let me restate that.
according to you and your interpretation of the interpretation...
yes! You are correct.

but according to what you refer to as dispensationalism, it's very coherent, clear and completely meaningful.

It is even worse when you skip the the greatest event in all of history to speculate on some unknown character coming at some unknown time
Aren't you glad you're alive in an era when your ideas lack coherence and clarity to anyone else but you, and your closest friends?

Dispensationalism makes perfect sense to me and all the people I associate with.
 
Funny is that not what you are doing
Irritating, isn't it!
The difference I can get my view Fromm scripture and you have to set aside scripture to get your view
Really?
Because according to your twice removed interpretation, we should be at least a 1000 years into eternity, on a new heaven and a new earth. But we're not.
You can't get a coherent model which finishes all 6 items in Gabriel's message to Daniel. And you keep ignoring them when I reference them.


Duh what is wrong with calling an eschatological system by its name
I don't have a problem with it.
You however do.
what makes that derogatory?
Your treatment of it.
totally unrelated to the topic at hand
That's rather convenient for you.
you can't do that if you are going to ignore large portions of scripture
ironic. You just said that 2/3 of the bible is unrelated.

Rapture, Resurrection, universal judgment, the assignment of eternal destinies and the new heaven and the new earth coincide with the second coming of Christ.
Now you are the one who is ignoring large swaths of scripture.
So...
Yeah...

Interpretation of an interpretation.
 
Irritating, isn't it!

Really?
Because according to your twice removed interpretation, we should be at least a 1000 years into eternity, on a new heaven and a new earth. But we're not.
You can't get a coherent model which finishes all 6 items in Gabriel's message to Daniel. And you keep ignoring them when I reference them.
No there is no new earth until the second advent and that follows after the 1000 years

And your claim is false as I have 2-3 times already shown you how those six things may be fulfilled

You on the other hand have failed to deal with the fact Christs second coming brings with it universal resurrection and judgment, a new heaven and a new earth along with the end of Christ's reign

You face additional issues in that no text speaks of rebuilding the city except for Isa 44:24-45:13 and that attruibutes the decree to Cyrus

and Ezra

Ezra 4:11–13 (ESV) — 11 (This is a copy of the letter that they sent.) “To Artaxerxes the king: Your servants, the men of the province Beyond the River, send greeting. And now 12 be it known to the king that the Jews who came up from you to us have gone to Jerusalem. They are rebuilding that rebellious and wicked city. They are finishing the walls and repairing the foundations. 13 Now be it known to the king that if this city is rebuilt and the walls finished, they will not pay tribute, custom, or toll, and the royal revenue will be impaired.

And that is before any decree Artaxerxes to rebuild the walls

Note Artaxerxes made no decree to rebuild the city

You must skip over Christs revelation as the anointed one
 
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