An Article on free will

All Kermos can do is repeat his denial of Christ's words


Kermos continues his distorted and irrational claims

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Jesus tells the Jews there is something they must do

Kermos comes and states, "Hath Jesus really said they must do something"

Irrationally after telling them they must do something Kermos wants you to believe he then tells them they have nothing to do. (Is it any wonder even his peers reject his claims)

He does the same with john 15:16

According to
John 15:26–27 (NASB 2020) — 26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Jesus had selected those who were with him during his time on earth. They were to be witnesses of his earthly ministry

Kermos on the other hand wants you to believe Jesus is talking about unconditional salvation determined before the creation of the earth for select men who would live some time in the future

He does not seem to care that context is not teaching that, that even peers from his own theology rebuff him. He just repeats the same thing over and over and over and over

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94452
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94463

The beauty and the depth and the breadth and the width and the height of Lord Jesus Christ's words recorded in John 15 are absolutely awesome and marvelous and a part of every Christian. Praise be to the Living God!

Regarding your quotation of:

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.
you wrote your utter deception:

Jesus tells the Jews there is something they must do Kermos comes and states, "Hath Jesus really said they must do something"
because the Word of God, Jesus Christ Himself, causes me to proclaim in the very post to which you replied:

He who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.
(the Word of God, John 3:21)
which is the Truth (John 14:6) that you deny.

Praise Jesus, He has been with me since the beginning of my walk in faith with Him:

When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
(John 15:26-27 (NASB 2020))

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
The word of TomL The Word of God
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
(TomL 6:29)
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
(John 6:29)
And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that the Word of God sayings are pure, clear, and precise:

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

You did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16).

I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!
 
Man's will is Man's, and its free will.


Listen

Lets say you decided to kill 40 people in a Wal-Mart today..

So, you decided to do this, 4 months ago, and then you decided which weapons to buy, and which date you were going to go and kill 40 people.
You chose the date, and you chose to do it., and you had 4 months to change your mind., but you chose not to change your mind, even tho you thought about changing you mind.

So, if a Calvinist says.>"God predestined that", then the calvinist is a mind blinded cultist's tool, who has lost any sense of mental capacity with regards to logic, reason, sanity, and correct theology.

Ive noticed that Satanists and Calvinist both blame God for the EVIL that people = choose to do.

No doubt there is a deep connection between the 2 groups, regarding their theology, that is a "doctrine of devils"... Hebrews 13:9
Man has a will but its not free from Gods control,
 
Man's will is Man's, and its free will.


Listen

Lets say you decided to kill 40 people in a Wal-Mart today..

So, you decided to do this, 4 months ago, and then you decided which weapons to buy, and which date you were going to go and kill 40 people.
You chose the date, and you chose to do it., and you had 4 months to change your mind., but you chose not to change your mind, even tho you thought about changing you mind.

So, if a Calvinist says.>"God predestined that", then the calvinist is a mind blinded cultist's tool, who has lost any sense of mental capacity with regards to logic, reason, sanity, and correct theology.
Man's will is in bondaghe to sin and Satan~God cannot be tempted, neither tempt he any man to sin, and certainly not to do evil!

Can God stop men from doing evil? Yes He can...... does he stop man from doing wickedness, some he does, some he leave them to the wickedness that is in their hearts, since he is not under obligation to keep them from sinning and following the powers of darkness.

We could keep going, but enough on this point.

Ive noticed that Satanists and Calvinist both blame God for the EVIL that people = choose to do.

No doubt there is a deep connection between the 2 groups, regarding their theology, that is a "doctrine of devils"... Hebrews 13:9
You have no understanding if that is what you have gathered from those who believe God is sovereign over the affairs of this earth.

I could say more, but you do not deserve more. Keep believing a lie.
 
It has been said many times by men before me...."The sinner IS free, but free in ONE DIRECTYION ONLY~free to fall. free to sin. The scriptures expresses it in this way:
Romans 6:20~"for when ye were servants of sin, ye were FREE FROM righteousness."
In what does the sinner's freedom consist? This question is naturally suggested by what we have just said above. The sinner is "free" in the sense of being unforced from outside. God never forces the sinner to sin. But the sinner is not "free" to do either good or evil, because an evil heart within is ever inclining him toward sin.

Let us illustrate what we have in mind. If I hold in my hand a book. I release it; what happens? It falls. In which direction? Downwards; always downwards. Why? Because, answering the law of gravity, its own weight sinks it. Suppose I desire that book to occupy a position three feet higher; then what? I must lift it; a power outside of that book must raise it. Such is the relationship which fallen man sustains toward God. While divine power upholds him, he is preserved from plunging still deeper into sin; let that power be withdrawn, and he falls — his own weight (of sin) drags him down. God does not push him down, any more than I did that book.

Let all divine restraint be removed, and every man is capable of becoming, would become, a Cain, a Pharaoh, a Judas and a Charles Manson. How then is the sinner to move heavenwards? By an act of his own will? IMPOSSIBLE!

A power OUTSIDE of man and GREATER than man MUST GRASP HOLD OF HIM AND LIFT HIM EVERY INCH OF THE WAY, or else there is NO HOPE for man.

As said above~The sinner is free, but free in ONE DIRECTION ONLY~ free to fall, free to sin. As the Word expresses it: "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were FREE FROM righteousness" Romans 6:20. The sinner is free to do as he pleases, always as he pleases (except as he is restrained by God), but his pleasure is to sin.

Does it lie within the power of the sinner's will to yield himself up to God? Let us attempt an answer by asking several others: Can water (of itself) rise above its own level? Can a clean thing come out of an unclean? Can the will reverse the whole tendency and strain of human nature? Can that which is under the dominion of sin originate that which is pure and holy? According to the prophets and Paul in Romans 8 it cannot. If ever the will of a fallen and depraved creature is to move God-wards, a Divine power must be brought to bear upon it which will overcome the influences of sin that pull in a counter direction.

This is only another way of saying,
John 6:44~"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me, draw him".
In other words, God's people must be made willing in the day of his power~See Psalms 100:3 As said a prophet of old, "If Christ came to save that which is lost, free will has no place. Not that God prevents men from receiving Christ~ far from it. But even when God uses all possible inducements, all that is capable of exerting influence in the heart of man, it only serves to show that man will have none of it, that so corrupt is his heart, and so decided his will not to submit to God (however much it may be the devil who encourages him to sin) that nothing can induce him to receive the Lord, and to give up sin...except God's power in operation toward the sinner, who is a servant of the devil and sin.

If by the words, "freedom of man", they mean that no one forces him to reject the Lord, this liberty fully exists. But if it is said that, on account of the dominion of sin, of which he is the slave, and that voluntarily, he cannot escape from his condition, and make choice of the good~ even while acknowledging it to be good, and approving of it~ then he has no liberty whatever. Just as Paul said more than once....
Romans 8:7,9~"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be; So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
The will is not sovereign, God alone is; it is a servant to sin because influenced and controlled by the other faculties of man's being. The sinner is not a free agent because he is a slave of sin~ this was clearly implied in our Lord's words,
John 8:36~"If the Son shall therefore make you free, ye shall be free indeed"
Man is a rational being and as such responsible and accountable to God, but to affirm that he is a free moral agent is to deny that he is in bondage to sin and the devil~ depraved in his will as far as righteousness and loving the light thereof. Because man's will is governed by his mind and heart, and because these have been vitiated and corrupted by sin living under deception of the devil himself, then it follows that if ever man is to turn or move in a God-ward direction, [God himself must work in him "both to will and to do of his good pleasure"~Philippians 2:13

Man's boasted freedom is in truth the "bondage of corruption"; he "serves divers lusts and pleasures." As one has well said: "Man is impotent as to his will. He has no will favourable to God. I believe in free will; but then it is a will only free to act according to nature. A dove has no will to eat carrion; a raven no will to eat the clean food of the dove. Put the nature of the dove into the raven and it will eat the food of the dove. Satan could have no will for holiness. We speak it with reverence, God could have no will for evil. The sinner in his sinful nature could never have a will according to God. For this he must be born again" (J. Denham Smith). In other words: THE WILL IS REGULATED BY THE ITS NATURE.
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXh9ZdxC1MM

By Jonathan Edwards the first President of Princeton....... Jonathan Edwards | The Presidents of Princeton University https://www.princeton.edu/pub/presidents/edwards/

This one-hour sermon is EXCELLENT and worth anyone's time listening to it~so POWERFUL of a sermon from one of America's brilliant minds in both theology and higher learning~not to mention he was very disciplined in godliness from a young age even to his death.
 
CALVINISM IN AMERICA~By Lorraine Boettner

When we come to study the influence of Calvinism as a political force in the history of the United States we come to one of the brightest pages of all Calvinistic history. Calvinism came to America in the Mayflower, and Bancroft, the greatest of American historians, pronounces the Pilgrim Fathers "Calvinists in their faith according to the straightest system."[18] John Endicott, the first governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony; John Winthrop, the second governor of that Colony; Thomas Hooker, the founder of Connecticut; John Davenport, the founder of the New Haven Colony; and Roger Williams, the founder of the Rhode Island Colony, were all Calvinists. William Penn was a disciple of the Huguenots. It is estimated that of the 3,000,000 Americans at the time of the American Revolution, 900,000 were of Scotch or Scotch-Irish origin, 600,000 were Puritan English, and 400,000 were German or Dutch Reformed. In addition to this the Episcopalians had a Calvinistic confession in their Thirty-nine Articles; and many French Huguenots also had come to this western world. Thus we see that about two-thirds of the colonial population had been trained in the school of Calvin. Never in the world's history had a nation been founded by such people as these. Furthermore these people came to America not primarily for commercial gain or advantage, but because of deep religious convictions. It seems that the religious persecutions in various European countries had been providentially used to select out the most progressive and enlightened people for the colonization of America. At any rate it is quite generally admitted that the English, Scotch, Germans, and Dutch have been the most masterful people of Europe. Let it be especially remembered that the Puritans, who formed the great bulk of the settlers in New England, brought with them a Calvinistic Protestantism, that they were truly devoted to the doctrines of the great Reformers, that they had an aversion for formalism and oppression whether in the Church or in the State, and that in New England Calvinism remained the ruling theology throughout the entire Colonial period.

With this background we shall not be surprised to find that the Presbyterians took a very prominent part in the American Revolution. Our own historian Bancroft says: "The Revolution of 1776, so far as it was affected by religion, was a Presbyterian measure. It was the natural outgrowth of the principles which the Presbyterianism of the Old World planted in her sons, the English Puritans, the Scotch Covenanters, the French Huguenots, the Dutch Calvinists, and the Presbyterians of Ulster." So intense, universal, and aggressive were the Presbyterians in their zeal for liberty that the war was spoken of in England as "The Presbyterian Rebellion." An ardent colonial supporter of King George III wrote home: "I fix all the blame for these extraordinary proceedings upon the Presbyterians. They have been the chief and principal instruments in all these flaming measures. They always do and ever will act against government from that restless and turbulent anti-monarchial spirit which has always distinguished them everywhere."[19] When the news of "these extraordinary proceedings" reached England, Prime Minister Horace Walpole said in Parliament, "Cousin America has run off with a Presbyterian parson" (John Witherspoon, president of Princeton, signer of Declaration of Independence).

History is eloquent in declaring that American democracy was born of Christianity and that that Christianity was Calvinism. The great Revolutionary conflict which resulted in the formation of the American nation, was carried out mainly by Calvinists, many of whom had been trained in the rigidly Presbyterian College at Princeton, and this nation is their gift to all liberty loving people.

J. R. Sizoo, tells us: "When Cornwallis was driven back to ultimate retreat and surrender at Yorktown, all of the colonels of the Colonial Army but one were Presbyterian elders. More than one-half of all the soldiers and officers of the American Army during the Revolution were Presbyterians."

The testimony of Emilio Castelar, the famous Spanish statesman, orator and scholar, is interesting and valuable. Castelar had been professor of Philosophy in the University of Madrid before he entered politics, and he was made president of the republic which was set up by the Liberals in 1873. As a Roman Catholic he hated Calvin and Calvinism. Says he: "It was necessary for the republican movement that there should come a morality more austere than Luther's, the morality of Calvin, and a Church more democratic than the German, the Church of Geneva. The Anglo-Saxon democracy has for its lineage a book of a primitive society—the Bible. It is the product of a severe theology learned by the few Christian fugitives in the gloomy cities of Holland and Switzerland, where the morose shade of Calvin still wanders ... And it remains serenely in its grandeur, forming the most dignified, most moral and most enlightened portion of the human race."

Says Motley: "In England the seeds of liberty, wrapped up in Calvinism and hoarded through many trying years, were at last destined to float over land and sea, and to bear the largest harvests of temperate freedom for great commonwealths that were still unborn." "The Calvinists founded the commonwealths of England, of Holland, and America." And again, "To Calvinists more than to any other class of men, the political liberties of England, Holland and America are due."

The testimony of another famous historian, the Frenchman Taine, who himself held no religious faith, is worthy of consideration. Concerning the Calvinists he said: "These men are the true heroes of England. They founded England, in spite of the corruption of the Stuarts, by the exercise of duty, by the practice of justice, by obstinate toil, by vindication of right, by resistance to oppression, by the conquest of liberty, by the repression of vice. They founded Scotland; they founded the United States; at this day they are, by their descendants, founding Australia and colonizing the world."......................

In his book, "The Creed of Presbyterians," E. W. Smith asks concerning the American colonists, "Where learned they those immortal principles of the rights of man, of human liberty, equality and self-government, on which they based their Republic, and which form today the distinctive glory of our American civilization? In the school of Calvin they learned them. There the modern world learned them. So history teaches." (p. 121).

"If the average American citizen were asked, who was the founder of America, the true author of our great Republic, he might be puzzled to answer. We can imagine his amazement at hearing the answer given to this question by the famous German historian, Ranke, one of the profoundest scholars of modern times. Says Ranke, 'John Calvin was the virtual founder of America.'"
D'Aubigne, whose history of the Reformation is a classic, writes: "Calvin was the founder of the greatest of republics. The Pilgrims who left their country in the reign of James I, and landing on the barren soil of New England, founded populous and mighty colonies, were his sons, his direct and legitimate sons; and that American nation which we have seen growing so rapidly boasts as its father the humble Reformer on the shore of Lake Leman."

Dr. E. W. Smith says, "These revolutionary principles of republican liberty and self-government, taught and embodied in the system of Calvin, were brought to America, and in this new land where they have borne so mighty a harvest were planted, by whose hands?—the hands of the Calvinists. The vital relation of Calvin and Calvinism to the founding of the free institutions of America, however strange in some ears the statement of Ranke may have sounded, is recognized and affirmed by historians of all lands and creeds."

All this has been thoroughly understood and candidly acknowledged by such penetrating and philosophic historians as Bancroft, who far though he was from being Calvinistic in his own personal convictions, simply calls Calvin "the father of America," and adds: "He who will not honor the memory and respect the influence of Calvin knows but little of the origin of American liberty."

When we remember that two-thirds of the population at the time of the Revolution had been trained in the school of Calvin, and when we remember how unitedly and enthusiastically the Calvinists labored for the cause of independence, we readily see how true are the above testimonies.

There were practically no Methodists in America at the time of the Revolution; and, in fact, the Methodist Church was not officially organized as such in England until the year 1784, which was three years after the American Revolution closed. John Wesley, great and good man though he was, was a Tory and a believer in political non-resistance. He wrote against the American "rebellion," but accepted the providential result. McFetridge tells us: "The Methodists had hardly a foothold in the colonies when the war began. In 1773 they claimed about one hundred and sixty members. Their ministers were almost all, if not all, from England, and were staunch supporters of the Crown against American Independence. Hence, when the war broke out they were compelled to fly from the country. Their political views were naturally in accord with those of their great leader, John Wesley, who wielded all the power of his eloquence and influence against the independence of the colonies. (Bancroft, Hist. U. S., Vol. VII, p. 261.) He did not foresee that independent America was to be the field on which his noble Church was to reap her largest harvests, and that in that Declaration which he so earnestly opposed lay the security of the liberties of his followers."

In England and America the great struggles for civil and religious liberty were nursed in Calvinism, inspired by Calvinism, and carried out largely by men who were Calvinists. And because the majority of historians have never made a serious study of Calvinism they have never been able to give us a truthful and complete account of what it has done in these countries. Only the light of historical investigation is needed to show us how our forefathers believed in it and were controlled by it. We live in a day when the services of the Calvinists in the founding of this country have been largely forgotten, and one can hardly treat of this subject without appearing to be a mere eulogizer of Calvinism. We may well do honor to that Creed which has borne such sweet fruits and to which America owes so much.

Read more.... https://www.apuritansmind.com/arminianism/calvinism-in-history/
 
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So you actually do believe that one who is not a Calvinist is worshiping God in vain, in other words God doesn't accept them. I think most other Calvinists would call you an extremist and tell you to be quite and that you're not helping their cause.
I didn't see a reply to this did you ?
 
Man's will is Man's, and its free will.

The Bondage Of A Man's Will​


Free-willians, in a respect, are correct that "there's no difference between self will and free will", and that respect is that both self will and free will lead to hell.
Now, instead of listening to themselves lie with things like "Free will is all through the scriptures", they need to listen to Apostolic testimony as shown below.

Peter the Apostle wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings such people under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Paul the Apostle wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Here's Paul from the Bible, again. Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14 - and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

Free-willians do not have a free will, as described by Paul.

Free-willians do have a self will, as described by Peter.

Free-willians gleefully separate themselves from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound enthusiastically in joy and love to God by God for God through God, as described by Paul.

The above mentioned Apostolic testimony verbatim:
  • "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).
  • "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
  • "but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14).
Christians act by God's grace for God's glory!

No Word of God states that God imparted man with the ability to free-will choose God.

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!
 
If God controlled the regenerate soul's volition as some claim, we would all believe the same things.

All would think like you?
 
Red Baker wrote:

Tom, go into any funeral home nearest you tonite and go to the first casket and tell the dead person to do something and see if they can hear you~ Speak as loud as you need to speak, and see. Call 911 and see if they will help out. They just might load you up and take you to the nearest hospital with padded walls.....if not, they should.

That's an eloquent tapestry, like a vibrantly illustrative painting. An accurate message conveyed with imagery. @TomL, are you afraid to take Red Baker's challenge - even limited without calling 911?

Let's all take a look at "hearing".

A person hearing denotes a living person's reception of audible sounds, and a person hearing can connote a living person understanding.

Lord Jesus says:

"The blind receive sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the the poor have the gospel preached to them"
(the Word of God, Matthew 11:5).

"To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out"
(the Word of God, John 10:3).

"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them"
(the Word of God, John 10:8).

"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with One Pastor"
(the Pastor Jesus, John 10:16).

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29“My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30“I and the Father are one"
(the Word of God, John 10:27-30).

Clearly, the ability to understand Jesus hangs on Jesus opening a person's ears to hear and understand, but the unbelievers fail to understand the beauty and the depth and the breadth and the width and the height of Lord Jesus Christ's words.

"you do not believe because you are not of My sheep"
(the Word of God, John 10:26).

Dead in sin people are incapable of choosing or causing or motioning themselves to be born of God because a dead in sin person is unable to perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God for thus says the Word of God “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3).

And again, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Moreover, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16).

Furthermore, “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).
 
That's an eloquent tapestry, like a vibrantly illustrative painting. An accurate message conveyed with imagery.
Wonderful imagery you say? If you like abstract are I guess.
@TomL, are you afraid to take Red Baker's challenge - even limited without calling 911?
So what's the challenge he's supposed to take up? To try to get around that physical death isn't the same as spiritual death?
(for the reason you think a spiritually dead person can't hear and perceive because you're demanding it has to be the same as physical death....a physically dead person can't hear you???)

Sorry but you greatly err. There's a lot of things that are similar but they're not the same. They might have a similar look and function BUT NOT the same.

Is an electric vehicle the same as one which is run on gas or fossil fuels? Nope. Not the same. Different type of capacity.
Is the human race the same as monkeys? Nope. Look similar but their capacities are different. Not the same. Is a Lion the same as a house cat or is a donkey the same as a race horse? Nope different things and with a different capacity.

Is spiritual death the same as physically death where you can say a spiritual dead person can't hear from God because a physically dead persons can't hear things? I'd suggest you're off the rails by insisting such and very short sighted. You need to consider they are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Let's all take a look at "hearing".
You're demanding that physical hearing must be the same as spiritual healing. You've made a mistake.
 
Civic, how many do you need? We can start here:


Jesus used double verily to denote a clear and certain revelation, that would not be easily accepted unless the emphasis of the double verily is employed to stress to the hearer what is being said should carefully be consider as a truth most do not even consider. The Lord spoke in this manner often to make his hearers slow down and ponder what is being said to them so they would get the truth being said.

Very clear and plain to him that understandeth! Even though the double verily helps us to slow down and hear what is being said.

Verse 24~any man that hears Jesus' words and believes what he hears ALREADY (hath, a past tense verb) has life given freely by the life given voice of Jesus Christ, who has life in the power of his voice! As seen in raising Lazarus from the dead~in John 11.

Such a person who has heard the voice of the Son of God, shall never come into condemnation but is passed farm death (spiritually speaking) unto life eternal! This is happening NOW~the hour is coming and now is! Before Christ, it was the power of God who possess life in himself.

The same power that will resurrect all in that day, (John 5:28) now is resurrecting his chosen people whom he has ordained to eternal life. Acts 13:48

John 5:28​


Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,”

Marvel if you want to, but it is the truth of the word of God.

civic, what is the first resurrection to you, mentioned in the scriptures, if it is not a spiritual resurrection by the power of God toward believers?

Another delicately presented post, except this time to @civic, Red Baker!

I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except because of me" (the Word of God, John 14:6).

Every one is dead in sin except for the ones whom Lord and God Jesus imparts Life, that is, Himself.

All glory and honor and praise and worship unto the Holy One.

Shalom!

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE WAY'S NAME!!!
 
I didn't see a reply to this did you ?
That's not an easy question to answer no more than to say all who all Calvinist are the only true worshippers. Being either or, does not determined if you are a elect child of God. It is faith and maintaining good works prove one sonship, not so much as to their knowledge, which is important, but faith and good works (fruits of the Spirit) are essential proving if one is a child of God, or not. Judas Iscariot walked with Christ, while Paul was with those seeking to destroy the true faith~his zeal was unmatched, yet is understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ, was at zero level. I'll take both with a humble spirit God being my helper. It seems to me that Rockson and you have both (faith and good works, but, I'm not God, who knows those that are his, I can only at best be persuaded) ~but, you both could have so much more by knowing this great truth: "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Do not get hooked on~to every one that believeth...as a means of obtaining, but true faith which is the work of the new man within God's children seeks to be justified and to obtain God's righteousness through Christ's faith and obedience alone! God's righteousness, which is revealed in the gospel is upon all who believe, (not by any works of a law) as the evidence of having God's righteousness, secured by Jesus Christ for each one given to him by God to redeem. John 17

Rockson, questions concerning Romans 10 proves my case more than any point I know of~Actually part of Romans nine, ten, and all of eleven if understood properly proves that God has elect children who have a zeal of God but not based upon true knowledge of Jesus Christ's atonement.

I will try to spend some time finding what I have already posted on this keep from doing so the second time ~ I have very little time on my hands at the moment. I'm on three forums, and my Reddit account I post on every day something.
 
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Sorry but you greatly err. There's a lot of things that are similar but they're not the same. They might have a similar look and function BUT NOT the same.

Is an electric vehicle the same as one which is run on gas or fossil fuels? Nope. Not the same. Different type of capacity.
Is the human race the same as monkeys? Nope. Look similar but their capacities are different. Not the same. Is a Lion the same as a house cat or is a donkey the same as a race horse? Nope different things and with a different capacity.

Is spiritual death the same as physically death where you can say a spiritual dead person can't hear from God because a physically dead persons can't hear things? I'd suggest you're off the rails by insisting such and very short sighted. You need to consider they are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. You're demanding that physical hearing must be the same as spiritual healing. You've made a mistake.
Rockson~it was Paul that put them on the same level, by saying that the same power that raised up Christ from the dead, was the same power that spiritually resurrected us for being dead in trespasses and sin.

So, they are on the same level as far as the meaning of death!


These scriptures are refuting what you are attempting to teach. What are you going to do about your error? Repent and teach the truth is what you should do, if it is in you to do so, that is yet to be determined.
 
These scriptures are refuting what you are attempting to teach.
No they don't.
What are you going to do about your error?
I'm going to tell you one of us is in error and it's not me.
Repent and teach the truth is what you should do,
That would be for me to take seriously what you say and need to.

if it is in you to do so, that is yet to be determined.
So why are you telling me to do something that you can't give me confidence that I can do......and you say that I should repent. Your doctrine says really it's only a good thing if God has ordained it. So why are you telling me or others what we should do?
 
Wonderful imagery you say? If you like abstract are I guess.

So what's the challenge he's supposed to take up? To try to get around that physical death isn't the same as spiritual death?
(for the reason you think a spiritually dead person can't hear and perceive because you're demanding it has to be the same as physical death....a physically dead person can't hear you???)

Sorry but you greatly err. There's a lot of things that are similar but they're not the same. They might have a similar look and function BUT NOT the same.

Is an electric vehicle the same as one which is run on gas or fossil fuels? Nope. Not the same. Different type of capacity.
Is the human race the same as monkeys? Nope. Look similar but their capacities are different. Not the same. Is a Lion the same as a house cat or is a donkey the same as a race horse? Nope different things and with a different capacity.

Is spiritual death the same as physically death where you can say a spiritual dead person can't hear from God because a physically dead persons can't hear things? I'd suggest you're off the rails by insisting such and very short sighted. You need to consider they are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.


You're demanding that physical hearing must be the same as spiritual healing. You've made a mistake.

Behold, @The Rogue Tomato and @Red Baker, the complete absence of the Word of God in Rockson's thoughts, so the traditions of man reign in his post without the Word of God.

Rockson, you wrote "I'd suggest you're off the rails by insisting such and very short sighted" in which you use the word "sighted" in the connotation for perception.

Sir, your conceptual use of sight as "perceive" is specifically covered in the post to which you replied:

Dead in sin people are incapable of choosing or causing or motioning themselves to be born of God because a dead in sin person is unable to perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God for thus says the Word of God “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3).

And, I suspect you failed to understand this related concept in the post to which you replied:

A person hearing denotes a living person's reception of audible sounds, and a person hearing can connote a living person understanding.

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your heart's thoughts in your post:
The word of Rockson The Word of God
Truly, truly, I say to you, before one is born again he can see the kingdom of God.
(Rockson 3:3)
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(John 3:3)
And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

You, Rockson, and everyone are incapable of perceiving King Jesus apart from Lord Jesus doing a work in you (John 15:5).

You exalt your "I chose to believe in Jesus" above the very Word of God as recorded in John 3:3, and that concept represents your thoughts.

A word about your thoughts. It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to the Word of God.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free-willian philosophy is man overriding God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is not good.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE WHO IS, AND WAS, AND IS TO COME!!!
 
That's not an easy question to answer no more than to say all who all Calvinist are the only true worshippers. Being either or, does not determined if you are a elect child of God. It is faith and maintaining good works prove one sonship, not so much as to their knowledge, which is important, but faith and good works (fruits of the Spirit) are essential proving if one is a child of God, or not. Judas Iscariot walked with Christ, while Paul was with those seeking to destroy the true faith~his zeal was unmatched, yet is understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ, was at zero level. I'll take both with a humble spirit God being my helper. It seems to me that Rockson and you have both (faith and good works, but, I'm not God, who knows those that are his, I can only at best be persuaded) ~but, you both could have so much more by knowing this great truth: "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."


Do not get hooked on~to every one that believeth...as a means of obtaining, but true faith which is the work of the new man within God's children seeks to be justified and to obtain God's righteousness through Christ's faith and obedience alone! God's righteousness, which is revealed in the gospel is upon all who believe, (not by any works of a law) as the evidence of having God's righteousness, secured by Jesus Christ for each one given to him by God to redeem. John 17

Rockson, questions concerning Romans 10 proves my case more than any point I know of~Actually part of Romans nine, ten, and all of eleven if understood properly proves that God has elect children who have a zeal of God but not based upon true knowledge of Jesus Christ's atonement.

I will try to spend some time finding what I have already posted on this keep from doing so the second time ~ I have very little time on my hands at the moment. I'm on three forums, and my Reddit account I post on every day something.
If there are both elect/ saved Calvinists and non Calvinists and everything is determined by God even our faith and doctrine, why would Gid cause you to believe tulip and me to reject it ?
 
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